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Apr 2021

Yeah, so I'm just curious.

I feel like prejudice plays a big part in everybody's lives and sometimes it can stop them from reading genuinely great comics with themes and topics that go against their beliefs.
For example if you're born into a religious family, would you read a story that is really well written/ drawn but goes against your religious values and vice versa.

I'm really interested to know, cause me personally, I think I would be willing to read certain types of stories but probably not others. Like to be brutally honest, I have a hard time reading LGBTQ+ stories but I will admit that some of them teach genuinely good messages of treating people kindly and a certain level of tolerance.
As a muslim, my story has to deal with Islam in a fictional medieval setting (The King of Roo), so anything against Islam is hard for me to advocate for.
But what do you guys think?

(And please, no vulgarity!)

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    Apr '21
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    Apr '21
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I refuse to read anything written by bigots with their views. I'm so fed up with dealing with their views in day-to-day life that I don't want to waste my time and energy on what they create. It made me quit several stories that seemed not to bad at first - I remember reading through quite a bit of "The Drifting Classroom" by Umezu Kazuo (from the 1970's) until I hit a direct quote that went something like "women are not suitable to govern/rule/lead because their ability to give birth makes their minds too small/narrow". Umezu is considered one of the most prominent mangaka of all time and Junji Ito mentioned bits from this particular story as a big inspiration of his, so I was stoked to check out one of his most popular and coveted works, and here we are...

Not gonna lie, I don't like religious works either, though I reserve that mostly for Christian-themed works. My country and its politics are so poisoned and warped by the church and the way they treat queer people and women leaves me with nothing but contempt for them. Too much bigotry is religion-based (despite often going against that religion's actual origins) for me to treat it otherwise.

tl;dr I won't read works whose author holds minorities as something below them, that denies their humanity. It's not "oh you are preaching about tolerance so much and you are hating on people who think this or that" - there's a difference between being against someone's very existence vs. being against people who refuse to consider you a full human.

I personally do think reading things that does not fit our values or cultural upbringing is one of the best ways to evolve as a person. It is not about changing our mind on specific things, but having a better understanding of people in their diversity. Things that shock us in a very different point of view can make us think again (either to alter our own beliefs in one sense or the other, or reinforce us in them); on the contrary, values that we find a proximity with also make us ponder on what's universal.

I'd say my reception of a work that is highly different from what I am confortable with ideologically, will depend a lot of what the intend of the writer is. If the intend of the writer is to describe what they live, or to make other discover part of their surroundings, culture, etc, most likely I will like it and won't be overly bothered by ideological differences. Especially if I know from the writer's attitude that I am allowed to question or discuss things that I'm not comfortable with. I like when opposite opinions are a good excuse to discuss the subject without necessarily trying to convince the other, but rather to put all the opinions and reasons on the table.

The cases where I will not like (and probably not even try reading) are only when the work is clearly made in a 'us against them' mentality. But I don't need cultural or ideological differences to dislike such works. I will avoid it in any case of circustances.

Before I go on though I do want to preface with saying I don't know how much agree with saying LGBTQA+ stories are "ideologically based", when they really are just stories about and from the perspective of people who exist and have a right to talk about themselves and characters like themselves. That's less an ideology and more a different human perspective. But that's just my opinion.

Probably not though I think it mostly matters on how the "ideology" is handled. Honestly, if a story had ideals and politics I didn't necessarily agree with, I would give it the benefit of the doubt. As long as the story wasn't trying to preach harmful things like bigotry, hate speech and the like, consuming content from a perspective other than mine, is good for me. It's about being open-minded to differing ideas and understanding different perspectives. I think I would at least give something a chance before I shut it down. If the ideology I disagree with becomes overly preachy and maybe it isn't weaved into the story well, then I would probably walk away from it. It's one thing to use an ideology to tell a story, through themes and examples, and it's a whole other thing to tell a story for the sake of an ideology.

As long as it's not preachy and patronizing, i am okay with it. A different perspective can always be interesting.

However, if said ideology is from an extremist group, like nazi propaganda or something on the lines of extremism, i will nope away from it.

I've thought more about this, and I honestly think I underestimated what you meant by vastly. I don't actually think I would read a story that vastly differs from my beliefs, no. And I don't think that many people would.
Most people who responded had reserves about sbujects they wouldn't read or condone in any situation. Well. I think those very subjects are what a vastly differing story would be about.

Oh, I forgot to mention this in my post, and this is one big point. Our president (Poland) literally said that "[they] are trying to force us to believe that LGBT is (sic!) people, but it's not people, it's an ideology worse than bolshevism" as a main point of his re-election campaign... that he'd won. Dehumanising queer people and reducing us to an "ideology" is veeeery prevalent and "proper" for "traditional families" in my country, and that hatred and prejudice has been terrifyingly fast on the rise in the past years. I'm so, so, so sick of it...

I feel like I heard recently that Poland introduced or passed a law that was anti-LGBTQA+. Please correct me if I'm wrong, it could have easily been another country or not even happened at all.

I wouldn't read a story that is based in bigotry, no. I don't think that is helpful at all unless you are trying to investigate how these views are formed; but I would not willingly consume a piece of media that advocates for my death (or my friends)

If its not about actual bigotry, but just different views on things, it's a wonderful piece on how varied human experiences are. But bigotry is not that.

I second most of you on that yes I would read it (in my long life Ive read almost every kind of perspectives and Ive been impossed to read a lot too f*ckingcommunists ). And its good to know how others think as Vothnthorvaldson said. For me as an author enrichs me as well.
Ive even asked my religious friends (christians, musulmans, budhists, paganism, etc) to teach me about theor religious views and traditions, because I love them and that made them them too.
Of course there are works that are a big NO NO (nazism, communism, pedophilia) I had an ex-friend that liked shota-con and I told them not to recommend any of her readings to me, but I knew she irl wouldnt never do that. I have to discern as well, author =/= their sotry or they are = their story, and simply be respectful towards them and towards myself.

I think most importantly than if I read it or not a story, is my reaction to them because that shows more from myself as a person than the work or the author per se. A reader attacking an author just because they are against their ideals, religion or culture is beyond ridiculous.
Im aware a lot of people will hate what I write just because I dont follow the global mindset everyones following rn and if you are not into it its the new inquisition. YET Ill still writing my stuff because I have the right to do so.
So, if you are umcomfortable, just walk away from that and keep your mind in peace.
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There's also thought in reading a media in a critical way knowing you don't agree with the protagonist's views. In fact, theres quite a few pieces of media that hinge on that. A protagonist doesn't mean they are good people, and there is value in media such as Watchmen, Fight Club, and Lolita if you go in knowing that agreeing with the protagonist is not the goal of the reading. These are valuable stories that teach us how bad things happen or are a deep dive in evil views. The protagonist's ideology need not align with your own; and to demand all media have a perfectly moral protagonist deprives us of the ability to think critically about media and analyse viewpoints that we might find evil or morally reprehensible.
It depends on if the media intends to preach about the protagonists views or demand we think about it ourselves. A lot of modern media comprehension on the internet has stemmed from analysis of young adult media, which has clearly defined morals and easy to digest motives. When a piece of media instead challenges the reader not to agree with the protagonist, they short-circuit and deem it irredeemable; but that is not the whole story.
There are pieces of media out there that seek to spread evil ideologies, or pieces of media which contribute to real life harm, but that means we need to look in with a critical eye and be able to disagree with the premise and criticize it as a whole. We can see the way they posit certain things as good when they are not; or twist a narrative to justify acts of terrorism or child abuse. To be well read, you need to be able to go in and consume media that doesn't have it's morals on it's sleeve.

If only that was "a law" and not "multiple laws".


Adding to what's here (there are the most recent events missing), the government has passed a bill for further consideration to make same-sex marriage completely banned and illegal (before then, there was room for interpretation in the constitution, even though there was no law making same-sex marriage possible) as well as other anti-LGBTQ+ laws. Acts of violence are a daily occurrence - me and my partner have been victims on several occasions in the past 3 years, and police is making sure to make our lives way harder, stalking protesters, holding up and flagging "suspicious" people (like those who are "guilty" of wearing small rainbow badges, for example). The state-ran public tv that is just the ruling alt-right party's (let's face it, they are pretty much religious fanatics/fascists) propaganda funnel, spreading more hatred and disinformation about queer people and just about anyone else opposing them.

And this is just the tip of the iceberg, there also have been horrible things and bills passed against women, like banning and PENALIZING abortion even in cases where there is a life-threatening condition for the pregnant person, or where the fetus has lethal abnormalities, or in case of r*pe and so on. But support for disabled children? Nah, what's important is that it's born, they don't give a damn what happens to them later, or how they die in pain several hours after birth.

So, yeah. People representing all those disgusting views are people whose works I'll only point my middle finger at.

Reading has always and will always be a comfort zone for me. That doesn't mean that I don't consume content from vastly different ideologies of mine (think of academic works, interviews, documentaries, etc), but it's just not something I want to read in the novels I consume precisely because it's such a comfort zone for me. The news is already full of things I do not agree with, so is Twitter and YouTube and the things I research occasionally, so at the end of the day if I read something to chill, I don't want my brain or patience challenged by an ideology that's hard to swallow for me.

This is an interesting topic. short answer is yes, I would read. I have read the bible and Mein Kampf, so yes, I have read things that differs from my value, but that it's a too simplistic answer.
The long answer is that I try to read from time to time materials that are out of my point of view to have a broader sight. As an individual I can't just reject ideas without knowing them, find they failings. Comprehend another idea its not partake in that same idea. As society its also good to always remember, if we don't want to become an stagnant society, or worse repeat mistakes of the past.
Another point of view its if I would not read an specific authour because their points of view on certain themes, as trans peoples right, or gender equality. This is the hardest to answer, because its depends on different factors. If the person is clearly a bigot, even having access to knowledge to be a better person, or if he is from an age where that line of thought was normal. I should prepare myself if I gonna read something from a person like that, but I don't beleive that canceling people should be practiced as a society. It should be presented as a whole, and let the indivudual to decide if it want to engage.
For example, Michael Jackson. For some people he is a pederast, for others he was not, and some radios don't play his music now, because we can't separate the art from the artist, but by denying all information of him, we are also hiding his acts and don't recognicing that we as a society allowed them to happen, and reparation came late or never for some of those people.
In resume, I think that it is healthy as and individual to read all material, as long as you are prepared to read about it. As a society its a must to don't forget, don't celebrate, and don't cancel, so we can grow, prepare, and repair in the future.

I really like this idea of being able to weave the ideology into the story well. I think we can all agree that when it comes to creative outlets, people generally don't like to be preached to. For me, when expressing my ideological beliefs I think it is critical to make the ideology literally a part of the story, something that feels natural and not have like one character outright preaching it. Subtly matters.

This is kind of what I meant by the post. If the author belongs to a specific religious group and is a devout follower of that group, and decides to write a fictional story based on the religious beliefs, then should they be allowed to espouse all their beliefs without feeling shame for it or being attacked. Essentially the concept of going against the grain and not following traditional normative values.
I personally have a different world view than most people I've seen on Tapas, and just would generally love to share that worldview to the Tapas community in the best way I know how, comics and good storytelling!
This of course coming from a Sunni muslim.

Honestly its just one of those things where it has to be well written. A modest proposal is one of the ones I like to point at the most for this. Sure it was mostly to prove a point rather then actually talk people into eating babies but the fact remains that its a pretty messed up idea, but it was also an entertaining one that had an idea behind it.

Meanwhile we have Atlas shrugs where- although I disagree with the ideas in this book anyways- that wasnt what made me drop it. I dropped it because it was DULLLLLLLLL. Like the book feels horribly nialistic and thats fine- ive read series of unfortunate evens- i can handle sad and miserable- but it was a book that truly lacked any personality. even parts i think where meant to be nostalgic or romantic felt like padding to get to that famous forth wall braking rant. LIke..... FEK its dull.

I like to understand people and ill read a lot of books that might have lessons i would normally disagree with to see where someone is coming from. But if you cant be consistent or like... be interesting then im out.

I don't think so. Well, to be more precise, the most annoying answer, "it depends". There are some ideologies that are downright repulsive and disgusting to me, and I won't be physically capable of tolerating work that promotes these views without getting angry. Like VHEMT or Luddism propaganda, for example.

Depends if I get bored with it, frustrated or it can be used for sweet meme fuel.

natty comics didn't deserve to die.