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Apr 2021

There's also thought in reading a media in a critical way knowing you don't agree with the protagonist's views. In fact, theres quite a few pieces of media that hinge on that. A protagonist doesn't mean they are good people, and there is value in media such as Watchmen, Fight Club, and Lolita if you go in knowing that agreeing with the protagonist is not the goal of the reading. These are valuable stories that teach us how bad things happen or are a deep dive in evil views. The protagonist's ideology need not align with your own; and to demand all media have a perfectly moral protagonist deprives us of the ability to think critically about media and analyse viewpoints that we might find evil or morally reprehensible.
It depends on if the media intends to preach about the protagonists views or demand we think about it ourselves. A lot of modern media comprehension on the internet has stemmed from analysis of young adult media, which has clearly defined morals and easy to digest motives. When a piece of media instead challenges the reader not to agree with the protagonist, they short-circuit and deem it irredeemable; but that is not the whole story.
There are pieces of media out there that seek to spread evil ideologies, or pieces of media which contribute to real life harm, but that means we need to look in with a critical eye and be able to disagree with the premise and criticize it as a whole. We can see the way they posit certain things as good when they are not; or twist a narrative to justify acts of terrorism or child abuse. To be well read, you need to be able to go in and consume media that doesn't have it's morals on it's sleeve.

If only that was "a law" and not "multiple laws".


Adding to what's here (there are the most recent events missing), the government has passed a bill for further consideration to make same-sex marriage completely banned and illegal (before then, there was room for interpretation in the constitution, even though there was no law making same-sex marriage possible) as well as other anti-LGBTQ+ laws. Acts of violence are a daily occurrence - me and my partner have been victims on several occasions in the past 3 years, and police is making sure to make our lives way harder, stalking protesters, holding up and flagging "suspicious" people (like those who are "guilty" of wearing small rainbow badges, for example). The state-ran public tv that is just the ruling alt-right party's (let's face it, they are pretty much religious fanatics/fascists) propaganda funnel, spreading more hatred and disinformation about queer people and just about anyone else opposing them.

And this is just the tip of the iceberg, there also have been horrible things and bills passed against women, like banning and PENALIZING abortion even in cases where there is a life-threatening condition for the pregnant person, or where the fetus has lethal abnormalities, or in case of r*pe and so on. But support for disabled children? Nah, what's important is that it's born, they don't give a damn what happens to them later, or how they die in pain several hours after birth.

So, yeah. People representing all those disgusting views are people whose works I'll only point my middle finger at.

Reading has always and will always be a comfort zone for me. That doesn't mean that I don't consume content from vastly different ideologies of mine (think of academic works, interviews, documentaries, etc), but it's just not something I want to read in the novels I consume precisely because it's such a comfort zone for me. The news is already full of things I do not agree with, so is Twitter and YouTube and the things I research occasionally, so at the end of the day if I read something to chill, I don't want my brain or patience challenged by an ideology that's hard to swallow for me.

This is an interesting topic. short answer is yes, I would read. I have read the bible and Mein Kampf, so yes, I have read things that differs from my value, but that it's a too simplistic answer.
The long answer is that I try to read from time to time materials that are out of my point of view to have a broader sight. As an individual I can't just reject ideas without knowing them, find they failings. Comprehend another idea its not partake in that same idea. As society its also good to always remember, if we don't want to become an stagnant society, or worse repeat mistakes of the past.
Another point of view its if I would not read an specific authour because their points of view on certain themes, as trans peoples right, or gender equality. This is the hardest to answer, because its depends on different factors. If the person is clearly a bigot, even having access to knowledge to be a better person, or if he is from an age where that line of thought was normal. I should prepare myself if I gonna read something from a person like that, but I don't beleive that canceling people should be practiced as a society. It should be presented as a whole, and let the indivudual to decide if it want to engage.
For example, Michael Jackson. For some people he is a pederast, for others he was not, and some radios don't play his music now, because we can't separate the art from the artist, but by denying all information of him, we are also hiding his acts and don't recognicing that we as a society allowed them to happen, and reparation came late or never for some of those people.
In resume, I think that it is healthy as and individual to read all material, as long as you are prepared to read about it. As a society its a must to don't forget, don't celebrate, and don't cancel, so we can grow, prepare, and repair in the future.

I really like this idea of being able to weave the ideology into the story well. I think we can all agree that when it comes to creative outlets, people generally don't like to be preached to. For me, when expressing my ideological beliefs I think it is critical to make the ideology literally a part of the story, something that feels natural and not have like one character outright preaching it. Subtly matters.

This is kind of what I meant by the post. If the author belongs to a specific religious group and is a devout follower of that group, and decides to write a fictional story based on the religious beliefs, then should they be allowed to espouse all their beliefs without feeling shame for it or being attacked. Essentially the concept of going against the grain and not following traditional normative values.
I personally have a different world view than most people I've seen on Tapas, and just would generally love to share that worldview to the Tapas community in the best way I know how, comics and good storytelling!
This of course coming from a Sunni muslim.

Honestly its just one of those things where it has to be well written. A modest proposal is one of the ones I like to point at the most for this. Sure it was mostly to prove a point rather then actually talk people into eating babies but the fact remains that its a pretty messed up idea, but it was also an entertaining one that had an idea behind it.

Meanwhile we have Atlas shrugs where- although I disagree with the ideas in this book anyways- that wasnt what made me drop it. I dropped it because it was DULLLLLLLLL. Like the book feels horribly nialistic and thats fine- ive read series of unfortunate evens- i can handle sad and miserable- but it was a book that truly lacked any personality. even parts i think where meant to be nostalgic or romantic felt like padding to get to that famous forth wall braking rant. LIke..... FEK its dull.

I like to understand people and ill read a lot of books that might have lessons i would normally disagree with to see where someone is coming from. But if you cant be consistent or like... be interesting then im out.

I don't think so. Well, to be more precise, the most annoying answer, "it depends". There are some ideologies that are downright repulsive and disgusting to me, and I won't be physically capable of tolerating work that promotes these views without getting angry. Like VHEMT or Luddism propaganda, for example.

Depends if I get bored with it, frustrated or it can be used for sweet meme fuel.

natty comics didn't deserve to die.

First off, It can just be me but I find it iffy. You call LGBT Comics, ideological based. If you mean some of the ones that lean politically then I get that. Cus quiet a few have some very political beliefs that I sometimes don't agree with period... points vaguely at a few... but if you mean comics with just and LGBT cast then... yikes.... human rights isn't idiolectal based.. its a right. That's an excuse of bigorty I hear everyday.

But on the topic.
Here's the thing If I want to expose myself to different beilfs vastly different from my own. Reading their stuff ain't helping. Best I go to the source and learn how they form. Cus... If its just bigotry's then... why would read a work saying my race, gender and sexuality is going to led to destruction, or something asanine? No matter how well written it is.

Main character difference in beliefs then yes. I don't agree with vigilante justice at all. Period. F that. But I would read a good bat man story

my man you shouldn't worry too much about backlash. As far as I know the site doesn't censor stuff like this.
You shouldn't be bothered wether the general populus will approve it or not, if you enjoy doing it, chances are some people will enjoy reading it.

As long as it isn't more propaganda than story, I can read something with antagonizing ideas to my own to see another person's point view; other thing is if I'll like it or not.

Yes, I will absolutely read a well written novel/comic that doesn't align
with my values. In fact many historical novels are obviously imprinted by their period's values.

However I REFUSE TO READ PROPAGANDA. No matter what side, not even the side that I support. That's a desperate attempt to shove your values down people's throats.

Saying LGBTQ+ is ideological is like saying being born with brown hair or green eyes is ideological. LGBTQ+ rights are not ideology, they're basic human rights and religion does not justify bigotry.

But yes, I would read stories with different ideological beliefs than my own as long as those beliefs are not prejudiced.

Probably not, unless the story is really interesting and they don't beat me over the head with their ideology, tho there are specific cases where I wouldn't even consider reading at all even if its interesting.

Probably not. I'm an atheist and a skeptic. Obviously, the idea of a comic promoting or celebrating Islam does not interest me.

That said, that doesn't necessarily preclude the work of authors with vastly different views. I'm a big fan of "The Golden Age" trilogy of science fiction novels by John C. Wright. Wright is a virulently homophobic, ultra-rightwing Catholic. I would probably struggle to even have a civil conversation with a man like that. But the key is, he focuses on telling a good story above all else. In fact, I doubt I ever would have guessed his views from reading his work, alone.

That is an important thing to know, as an artist. People want a story, not a sermon. Stories that are contrived to push a certain ideology typically ring hollow and dishonest to the people who don't already agree.

I've noticed that too. I managed to read most of Orson C. Card's stuff without taking on board any of his cherished bigotries. Didn't even have a clue until I read an interview. Yikes.

Come to think of it, the list of authors who's works I've enjoyed, but who's views I don't share is pretty long.

I guess my views are based on reality, so fiction isn't going to change them much.

It totally depends on the ideology and the way the author portrays it.

For example, I am a muslim too and I like to read religious mithology. I loved Good Omens by Neil Gaimen and Terry Prechett (a parody about christian apocalypse) but I hated Neil Gaimen's American Gods (another story on mithologies but the events were too disturbing to read).

Also, I think the book shouldn't be all about the ideology or there shouldn't be some characters that are irrelevant to the storyline but exist just to promote the ideology. It is not a book but the best example for that would be netflix putting every single show an extra character that only exist to represent an ideology just to satisfy some certain audience.

I get it. The ideology is not the problem, but the way it is presented. It seems to me from reading this thread at least that some people are more in line with telling a good story regardless of which beliefs as long as it is not forced down there throats. Me, personally, my story includes religious phrases and themes. However, the one thing I wanted to avoid in my story was the sense of idealism where I only show the good that can come from the religion. I also want to show all the bad things that can be interpreted via the religion or show characters losing faith, essentially dealing with real world issues with regards to their faith. Just so I can make it more human and less preachy. Though at the end of the day, I will not be shy to say that in my story Islam will prevail in the end, it's just a matter of how the characters get to the point of letting their beliefs prevail, it won't be an easy open shut case, but one of pain suffering and genuine human qualities that people who are outside the faith could also understand, even if they don't agree.

But man, I don't agree with a lot of y'all views but man I respect you for saying something. This is all about building bridges if I'm to be honest and not about bigotry in the slightest. I Look forward to more responses! (Like I swear I DON'T CARE whether you guys agree with my views, I am not writing this story to preach my beliefs, I am wiring it to teach my beliefs. If you accept you, you accept it, if you don't I DON'T Care. Also, I don't know how many purely religious comics exist in tapas, but maybe this could help some religious minded folks write genuinely good stories about their own beliefs that don't contain bigotry. I'd honestly be interested to read some like that.