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therosesword
Jan '21

As someone who's grammar pretty much sucks I have always been happy to see programs such as Grammarly, etc.

But I've noticed something lately. I've noticed a certain "homogenous" feel to a lot of writing that I'm seeing. It's as if you can pick out the program that the writer has chosen to refine their work.

It's as if a clothing designer was told she had to make ten different pieces of clothing, all of them from different eras or styles, but had to use the fabric provided. Problem was, the fabric was the same.

Anyone else see this?

Please note: I'm not knocking something that helps with grammar, spelling, etc. But... there's just something rather "Stepford Wifish" going on there?

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SeanScruffy
Jan '21

While I agree most writing is starting to feel the same, I don't think it's due to grammar programs. I think the problem runs deeper: strict "do's and do-not's" on things like purple prose, limited mass appeal of genres, and so on.

Really, homogenous writing stems from most writers feeling pressured to emulate others to the tea, or else.

therosesword
Jan '21

Agree, agree, agree. I remember when I first started writing professionally someone asked me: Who do you write like?

they were not happy about my answer, "Me."

But I must say, I've always enjoyed a good "turn of phrase" and I'm not seeing as much as I used to. Of course these things, like everything else, run in ebbs and flows, so, who knows?

The do's and don'ts have always been around but the programs do have their limits and if you get 2 out of 20 using the same prompts......

Also, is it just me or am I seeing a reluctance to take risks? On one hand, yes, I see some wonderful risk taking but on the other I see people too afraid to take a risk that might result in someone not liking them/their work.

It's going to be interesting.

ApplesOverIndia
Jan '21

I refuse to use Grammarly (or other grammar software) for this exact reason. I have a pretty good hold on grammar rules, and if I break them, it's intentional about 99% of the time. I get tired of even Word telling me that a sentence fragment is unacceptable; I created that sentence fragment on purpose. I understand the role that grammar software plays and definitely think it can be a helpful tool, but I also think it's one whose main goal should be to help the author improve their understanding of grammar so they can ultimately move away from those tools.

SeanScruffy
Jan '21
therosesword

I'll double-down on this and say bad critiques are also to blame as they can dilute the prose. Again, this is true for bad critiques, not critiquing in general.

I don't know about you, but I've received reviews which spend their time trying to intrinsically alter my writing style so that it suits theirs instead.

therosesword
Jan '21
ApplesOverIndia

I, too, refuse. And I have frightened the cat all too often screaming at Word that a one word sentence is perfectly acceptable.

Agreed. It's a tool, nothing more and it is not meant to replace anything. I've seen ads where a sentence is reduced down to the blandest of the bland by a program and touted as being "concise." You can be concise with flair, but I have not found the programs to provide that flair.

Wocalich
Jan '21

This is why I don't do everything that Grammarly tells me to do.

surenlicious
Jan '21

I actually tried one today. I'm still debating on whether or not it's helping my ass out as I'm not a native-speaker. I wouldn't even know if my writing felt 'organic' before that, my feedback is low anyways so here I am trying lots of things out.

cherrystark
Jan '21

I only use Grammarly for basic editing and spellcheck, but I always check the suggestions before I approve them. I read a quote that said something to the effect that the written word has rhythm and we should vary sentence length. (There was more to it than that) Anyway, I always try to think of the rhythm in my writing. Commas, for example, are used in music to tell singers when to breathe. I might add extra commas if my sentence needs more time. We had a work exercise where we had to edit a sentence to be grammatically correct. Most of the adaptations were technically correct depending on the circumstance. Programs don't know the circumstance or writing style.

Yes! I totally agree with this. I can stomach recycled plot lines to an extent because we culturally will recognize base stories like "Cinderella". But there are plenty of stories where the writers are essentially doing a "reaction" to the piece before and nothing new comes out of it, like any of the trending topics nowadays: vampires, werewolves, bears, mermaids, mafia, etc. (You get the drift)

therosesword
Jan '21
SeanScruffy

I haven't had that happen here but I have received it elsewhere. That's why when I hear someone say "What I would do..." I tend to shut down because they're not writing it, I am. On the other hand one of my beta readers can do that because they're "what I would do" is more along the lines of: "What I would do is make that strong point even stronger."

But people trying to change your writing style? Nope. Nope. And nope. And that's a little what I feel with these programs when people rely on them too heavily.

SeanScruffy
Jan '21
therosesword

Yes, there's a genuine lack of risks these days! For every one story I've read that has a unique premise, there are one-hundred with the same foil, the same characters going to the same high school/college.

We're no longer in an era of pushing the bar; we're in an era trying to maintain the bar so we get noticed by Algorithm Senpai.

suyaa3838
Jan '21

I'm not well-versed in the novels department (neither specifically on Tapas nor in general), but I'd like to add my 2 cents from the comic perspective because I'm absolutely seeing a similar issue there too.

A huge "problem" with dialogue in particular is that a lot of people don't write how people speak, but instead either focus too much on proper grammar (causing every character to have the same bland voice) or take inspiration from things such as oddly phrased scanlations, creating a really awkward atmosphere in their work. I imagine this kind of thing can creep its way into novel narration too, and the "fault" my be found in a lot of sources.

Now I say "problem" and "fault," but in the end this is me speaking from my own perspective because personally I love writing that feels "alive" and "organic." For all I know the type of writing I dislike brings joy to plenty of people out there, and that's totally fine to me so long as there still are writers who stubbornly do their own thing. :stuck_out_tongue:

SeanScruffy
Jan '21
suyaa3838

Well, yeah. And thanks for bringing a new perspective on this discussion!

I liken most of these stories to comfort food: the potato chips of writing. And this problem certainly extends to novels, too. Characters are more so self-inserts or based solely on their appearance, sexuality, etc. It feels like dialogue in this instance is fulfilling a program rather than trying to tell a story. But hey, if it's cozy why get out of bed? lol.

therosesword
Jan '21
suyaa3838

Years ago when I worked for a magazine I had to interview an actress about a film she was in. She had the script with her on the table. I'll never forget this, as she spoke to me she put her hand on the script and softly ran her hand over it. I thought, that's how I want to write, I want to write so that someone would hold my work like it was one of their most precious possessions. That's where writing from the soul comes into play. You can use a program to correct your grammar but not to the point where it takes your soul away.

domisotto
Jan '21
Wocalich

That’s my answer as well. I use ProWritingAid, free version, and treat its corrections as suggestions.

Also, I disagree with all prose feeling the same. I read quite a bit of books every day through club I am in, and I see everything, from ornate prose to deeply layered one to barely understandable chop-mush.

therosesword
Jan '21
surenlicious

We should all be willing to try out what tools are available to us. Then, of course, pick what we want to use and reject everything else.