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Oct 2020

Disclaimer: all advice is subjective and should never be applied uniformly to all situation, you may not agree, that is your right, your situation may vary.

We all know there are some pieces of advice that are just very hard. You don't really want to hear them or listen to them, even when you possibly should, and a lot of the time people don't want to give you this advice because it'll hurt you and you'll get defensive. No one (ok most people) don't enjoy being the bad guy and crushing people's dreams, or even just doubting people's dreams and creative efforts. But, sometimes, it is necessary.

So, please share some of the harsh advice some people probably don't want to hear about webcomics/webnovels, that you probably didn't want to hear and other people probably don't want to hear either but probably need to.

And here are a few of mine:

  • Lower your expectations: whatever your expectations are, lower them. Webcomics/novels is a long hard slog and you are competing against thousand or more every day. You're not going to be an overnight success. If you're writing a niche genre, you're going to get niche numbers, don't complain about that. If you're writing a popular genre, you're going to get bigger numbers. Novels get lower than comics. Research your market and realise you need more realistic expectations.
  • You are not entitled to anything as a creator: we often hear about reader entitlement, but creators get entitled too. You aren't owed comments, views or subs. Popular creators who have a lot of subs/views/comments have worked hard to get there. Even if it's their first comic/novel, they probably had a following before somewhere else. These things take years. You have to work for it too.
  • You're not cool: you can think you're cool for hating on popular works or genres or cliched stories, but you don't know that author's story. How would you like it if someone started calling your work cliche and lazy and heartless just because you got popular? Just because your genre came around? That's what you sound like. You sound like you're whining because you're not popular. You're doing the creator equivalent of "I'm not like other girls".
  • You're not being modest: there's a difference between modesty and purposefully and meaningfully putting your work down. If you tell me your work is not good, I won't read it, compared to if you just say you're still improving. I'm not saying say your work is amazing and the best (see below) there's nothing wrong with saying you're still improving, but telling people you're work isn't good, as a creator, they'll probably believe you. And people can tell when you're doing it for attention, saying you're no good to try and have people tell you otherwise. We can tell.
  • You're not writing a masterpiece: I'm sorry. I know you love your story. I know you love your characters. But you are (probably) not writing the next big hit. You're not that amazing. You're not the most amazing artist and the most amazing story teller. You're not changing the genre and you're not above everyone else here. Once again, lower you expectations. Acting like you're writing the greatest masterpiece ever put to paper, telling yourself that and that you deserve everything, that you're better than popular works will harm you in the long term.

So, there's some bits of advice that I often think people don't want to hear and don't want to give. Especially to newer creators. What about you guys?

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There are 150 replies with an estimated read time of 42 minutes.

Mismarketing your work only harms it in the long run. Romance or BL might be trending, but if you miscategorise your work to get eyes on it, people are going to call you out or unsub eventually. You can't trick people into reading your work, and you shouldn't do it anyway. Trust once broken is rarely earned back.

You don't know your genre as well as you think you do. If you are writing a romance where the characters don't end up together, or die at the end, you're not writing a romance. Know your genre conventions. They don't exist to constrain you, they exist to guide you towards creating works that your readers are there to see.

My mother says I'm cool!

...
...
...I jest.

My mother doesn't think I'm cool. :frowning:

To go with this:

Subverting expectations/tropes: subverting tropes and genre expectations can be done well, but you have to know what you're doing. Just being surprising/subversive for the sake of it isn't a replacement for good story telling. You actually need to be a better story teller to get away with it and make it satisfying.

The advice I was given specifically for me was concrete when multiple people were saying the same thing about my work.

At first one or 2 said it and I was like, maybe it's not a big deal.

But when you get like 7-10 people saying it, it makes you think... Maybe there is something I need to do about my storytelling or artwork.

The advice people kept telling me is my lines aren't clean ( I hear this the most. It's not intentional either) and my perspective needs working so I can improve my storytelling. My sense of depth and space.

I know people are just trying to help.

Rebooting: You can try to reboot a story over and over again to make it perfect, but because your art skill and critical eye constantly evolve it will (probably) never be what you want. Just make your story, even if it isn't perfect. Because NO story is perfect, and I mean not a single one.

Oh god yes this. Stop redoing your same idea over and over again. Make one, move on to another. You'll improve by working on lots of different projects, but only return to an old project if you're absolutely certain that your skill level will be so improved as to make it 100% better.

I see this is the FF7R rule. Don't return to something old unless you're commited to completely overhauling everything and can back up your claims that you'll make every aspect better.

Original or unexpected doesn't necessarily equal good:
One complaint I see over and over again is "why do people like this thing that's just the same tropes as other things! MY story is totally different from everything else, it subverts every expectation you might have and has a completely unique setting that's nothing like anything anyone's ever seen before and plot twists nobody can predict, but nobody's reading it!"
Yeah, it's because if you go too far outside established narrative conventions, and too far from patterns or archetypes people can relate to or that ground your story, people stop being able to connect with it emotionally. It becomes just a bunch of random incoherent details lacking a clear pattern. Choose your subversions of archetypes, narrative structures, settings and the like very carefully, keep them to a smallish number, make them count.
Also if some of your more attentive audience guesses your twist in advance, it means you foreshadowed it well; don't change it to something that makes no sense just to try to outsmart them. Getting payoff to a setup is one of the greatest feelings you can give your audience, whether it's a surprise or not. Don't rob them of it by having some random crap happen!

You’re a new creator who has an amazing, wonderful, totally cool idea that’ll take years to bring to fruition? Save it for later

This was a mistake I made with War Cogs. For context, War Cogs is a story of mine that takes place in WWI. It is going to be a multivolume, thousand-and-possibly-more page comic.
When I first started making comics, I made War Cogs my first project. I was so convinced that it would be the greatest thing I had ever created. I thought that it would be successful right out of the gate. I thought making a comic and gaining a following would be easy. Oh, how I was wrong.
I only ended up disappointing myself. The art was crappy, I hadn’t done enough research on WWI to create a respectable story based around it, and I burned out after finishing two issues. In short, using War Cogs as my first ever comic was a complete and total failure.
So if you’re a brand new creator and have a story that you just know is gonna be the best thing you ever make, and you’re really excited to work on it, my only advice is this: don’t. Not yet. Start with short projects. Make mistakes. Learn. The time will come when you can bring your “masterpiece” (I say “masterpiece” because I read the original post) to the world, but now is not that time.

Honestly, these are all excellent points. The second one really resonates with me because I've seen so many people over the years who believe they are entitled to popularity as a creator because of x, y, z reason. No one owes a creator anything but hard work can certainly pay off if whining about "not being popular" is put aside. And like? I can understand the frustration when it feels like you're being ignored. But acting bratty and being aggressive towards everyone will certainly not resolve the issue. I've seen the aggression come out with some of these creators. I remember being shocked about 3 years ago when I had a Twitter account because there was a viral post with an artist saying things like "you better f*cking retweet and comment on my art" to their followers. Comments/likes/etc are earned when your work resonates with people. I have some things I could certainly wave in front of my audience to get pity-points but I choose not too. I'm not owed anything because I have z-thing lmao. I've earned my audience though hard work. Not emotional manipulation. So have many others. Being told I should follow a person not based on the merits of their art, but other things is insulting.

And going off of your last point in relation to art instead, sometimes you may have become really good at art... And you may be really good at some things like character creation or color theory - but yes, you're not a genius. I've witnessed decent artists who get upset when people don't kiss their butt and instead try to help the artist become better. Not accepting criticism will only hold your work back! If you're serious about being an artist, if someone tells you that you need to work on anatomy or compositions or whatever else... and they're not being a jerk but genuinely trying to help... It's being said for a reason. I've even witnessed artists asking for critique... And then getting upset when critique is given! Like, did they think everyone was going to call them a master artist...?

if you ever want to go professional, you better study your ass off.

If you ever want to be a professional in any field, you better study your ass off. Don't think you will be the next Stephen king unless you've read as much as that man and don't think you can work for a comic book company unless you've got your comic basics down. That's not just true for creative jobs, researchers need to do it as well.

LMAO wow that really hit hard but so true :joy:

Urgh that always makes me angry! It's hard to give a good critique - it takes time and effort. Someone has to care to bother to give you honest feedback and being a jerk about receiving it is... jdkaljfdkljsd :eyebrows:

Also related to this

You're not going to make money unless you treat it like a job: the people who make money of webcomic/novels, treat it like a job. They work 8-10 hour days, constantly and solidly. If you treat it like a hobby, you'll only make hobby money. If you want to live of it, you have to treat it like a job.

Really good advice in this thread. Would add some of my own but I feel like everything was said in one way or another.

Well, maybe just one...

Patience, hard work, and consistency

I'm pretty sure this was already mentioned in some way or another but yeah, if you're looking for an audience, it won't come any time soon. Remember that you are not looking for an audience, your readers are looking for your story in the sea of other amazing gems. They will find it, but you need to put in a lot of hard work and be consistent with it. Going back and redoing stuff is fine, but settle at a certain point and come to the realization that this is how it's going to be and finish your work finally. There's nothing more admirable and satisfying than finally finishing a project that you put your heart and soul into.

This thread is full of amazing advice. I have nothing to add to it so I guess I’ll just bring in an opinion:

Just because your main character is a good person, doesn’t mean they’re a good character.

Most characters telling the story are the main character. I personally think outweighing their positives with flaws is a good thing, as it makes them seem realistic. Humans are born imperfect, so your character shouldn’t be completely good. Unless they’re not human. Then I think that is excused.

Adding one that I think a lot of peeps need:

Pushing yourself to the brink will NOT improve your art: Did you skip a meal to finish an update? Stop and go eat. Do you find yourself nodding off and really, really tired? Stop and go to sleep. Take care of your body, be it when you're sick, needing basic care, and just taking breaks. The starving artist is not a healthy mindset, and your art WILL suffer because of it. Yes -- you can take some inspiration from your experiences, but do that AFTER you take care of yourself. You can't work on art if you're not in the right mindset or circumstances to do so.

I'm just loving all of this - it's so grounding, I kinda needed that rn :joy:
Thank y'all for this thread!

exactly, there are good subversions and bad subversions. What works and when it works will depend of your story.