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Jul 2023
Aug 2023
NickRowler
Jul '23

I think you are somewhat missing the deeper meaning of what the Lego Movie is about. The movie is told from the perspective of a child who is unhappy with his father’s strict rules. The song “Everything is Awesome” is a song a kid would sing to themselves while they play. Emmet is an extension of the child, and represents his struggle to play within the premade Lego sets his father set up. While Wyldstyle represents the concept of creativity and not worrying about strict structure when playing with Legos. A lot of this is paralleled with a “Chosen One” narrative but the story has more depth than that.

JoshRaed
Jul '23

So the way it’s described it feels like this moment isn’t even something you make happen, it’s just something that probably will happen to your story anyway. Like how specifically do I use it to improve my story? It doesn’t seem like any of this stuff was stuff I even had to add because it seems to be all there somewhere.

Which parts of the story I described are the cliche parts?

JoshRaed
Jul '23

I understand that stuff. I just don’t see how it relates to this conversation.

KevinReijnders
Jul '23
JoshRaed

There's a diference between a characters want and need. A want is what a character thinks they need, but generally a basic heroes journey will have a character evolve to the point where they realise they don't need their want and that's when they achieve their need.

Take the latest Puss in Boots movie. Goldilocks wants the wishing star to wish her family back. Everything she does is in purpose of that single goal, but in the end she realized she already had a family with the 3 bears. She needed to accept she already had what she wanted.

Same with Puss, he wanted more lives to he a courageous hero again, bu he needed to learn courage comes from facing fear, not the lack of it

JoshRaed
Jul '23

I know that, and I don't see how it connects to what I said.

HGohwell
Jul '23

Ok, so I think all this is getting sorta carried away from the main point.

Structure, when it comes down to it is, basically beginning, middle and end (this also applies to scenes in general but that's too minute). How much goes to each is dependant on your story's genre and style and conventions. Generally, your beginning and end should be shorter. If you had to put a ratio on it, something like 1st quarter, set up/beginning, 2nd and 3rd quarter middle and last quarter end. You 2nd quarter should be build up and adventure and the 3rd quarter should be all build up to your climax, and then your last quarter would be recovery and wrap up. How uneven these quarters are, of if there aren't extra bits, depends on the specific set up of your story. Some will skip almost everything after the climax, some will go on forever, some will skip straight to the build up and ignore a slower "normalcy" type opening. This is structure.

When talking about flow, that's a lot more about presentation and how these things connect to each other and if you will present them connected to each other. And much of that is about execution. Consider this like the scene to scene, shot to shot editing in the film. You don't notice when it's good, but you do notice when it's jarring (hopefully because it was intended to be and not by accident).

KevinReijnders
Jul '23
JoshRaed

You know it, but I get the sense you don't really understand it. That's why I tried to explain it with a different set of examples.

A story is about a character's growth, first and foremost. The inner workings of your hero's psyche should be your top priority. Get to know their strengths and weaknesses.
Start out the story showcasing their strengths in their familiar enviroment. This is Act 1.
In Act 2 you confront them with their weaknesses, at first a bit and then by a lot, to a breaking point.
Now they ate faced with a choice, rise up or stay down. This is the start of Act 3.
Your hero, should you go for a good ending, will rise up, accept their weaknesses and become stronger for it.

This is the basic story structure you could write your story around.

22 days later
JoshRaed
Aug '23

I am aware of that fact. The structure here is tied heavily to the growth of the characters, and their roles in this story. The first two chapters minimize the other characters roles just to make it so you understand the protagonist from the very beginning, and each chapter exists to in some way develop the characters and their problems and their relationships.

JoshRaed
Aug '23

I don't know. It just happened. I'm actually laughing as I type this for some reason. Something about this whole situation is just really funny to me.

NickRowler
Aug '23

Are you actually interested in advice or are you just a troll? It doesn’t seem like you are actually interested in writing. It comes off like you want to be needy for the sake of needy.

You are asking people to respond to posts they made a month ago. Have you actually sat down to draw or write anything new? It’s hard for people to give you new advice if you are not really taking the effort to make new stuff.

JoshRaed
Aug '23

Yes. I just started drawing this right now. Why did my comment about laughing indicate I was needy? What's the connection?

I also outlined like 10 chapters of Penelope Dreadful and finished a 2000 word draft, and posted it to the forum. I'm surprised you didn't see it.

aqua03Party Planner
Aug '23
NickRowler

Considering their constant harassment and defensiveness combined with their utter lack of progress, I’m assuming that yes they are a troll.

JoshRaed
Aug '23
2

(post withdrawn by author, will be automatically deleted in 24 hours unless flagged)

JoshRaed
Aug '23
aqua03

Maybe this is a bad question, but what would make you think I'm not a troll? Like is there anything I could do to prove I'm not a troll tomorrow, or by the end of the week? Is a month possible? And if so what is it?

LunarScyphozoa
Aug '23

Most likely? All that’s needed is for you to stop acting suspiciously.

JoshRaed
Aug '23

"Suspiciously" is very vague. Like I wouldn't suspect myself of being a troll if I met me. What about my behavior is suspicious and how should I change it?

kalmia
Aug '23
JoshRaed

What makes people think you’re a troll is the fact that you ask for advice and then don’t really seem to take any of it into account. People have left you tutorials, given you advice, and answered your questions but you still don’t really seem to be implementing any of it into whatever you’re doing because every time you come back your discussions are essentially the same.
Like with your questions about character designs- many people gave you advice including on how to draw different body types and heads and then you just posted another thread asking for help with drawing a head and didn’t take any of the previous advice into account.
Most people have given you suggestions that basically tell you to start with the basics or common tactics many artists learn in their art or writing journey (loomis method, 3 act structure, watching tutorials, etc). But you ignore that and continue with what you’re doing. You ask for advice about cliches and people give you advice but you completely shut down their thoughts and insist that they’re wrong, or the way you question them feels very negative. You don’t seem to take any of the criticism into anything you’re doing. It makes you seem like you’re trolling.
I understand that it’s hard to instantly start implementing things you’re learning into your art or writing, especially if you’re new or unlearning bad habits, but all of your questions can be answered with very simple and similar answers- go back to the basics. Watch tutorials, look up youtube videos, do your research, use references. And people offer you these answers but you don’t seem to be really listening.

JoshRaed
Aug '23
3

So, to be clear… the issue in the case of the hobie brown thing is with the fact that I started a new thread specifically, the hobie brown one, instead of showing that I’d learned something about character design. It’s not something else i’m not getting, it is that exact thing.

Am I correct?

Also I looked back on the cliche one and I was normal. I didn’t dismiss anyone’s input, I just explained my choices and also changed them to adjust to their advice. The one real piece of advice I got to do anything different was not to use the terms “dark lord” and “Heiroe” so I changed them.