I know that, and I don't see how it connects to what I said.
Ok, so I think all this is getting sorta carried away from the main point.
Structure, when it comes down to it is, basically beginning, middle and end (this also applies to scenes in general but that's too minute). How much goes to each is dependant on your story's genre and style and conventions. Generally, your beginning and end should be shorter. If you had to put a ratio on it, something like 1st quarter, set up/beginning, 2nd and 3rd quarter middle and last quarter end. You 2nd quarter should be build up and adventure and the 3rd quarter should be all build up to your climax, and then your last quarter would be recovery and wrap up. How uneven these quarters are, of if there aren't extra bits, depends on the specific set up of your story. Some will skip almost everything after the climax, some will go on forever, some will skip straight to the build up and ignore a slower "normalcy" type opening. This is structure.
When talking about flow, that's a lot more about presentation and how these things connect to each other and if you will present them connected to each other. And much of that is about execution. Consider this like the scene to scene, shot to shot editing in the film. You don't notice when it's good, but you do notice when it's jarring (hopefully because it was intended to be and not by accident).
You know it, but I get the sense you don't really understand it. That's why I tried to explain it with a different set of examples.
A story is about a character's growth, first and foremost. The inner workings of your hero's psyche should be your top priority. Get to know their strengths and weaknesses.
Start out the story showcasing their strengths in their familiar enviroment. This is Act 1.
In Act 2 you confront them with their weaknesses, at first a bit and then by a lot, to a breaking point.
Now they ate faced with a choice, rise up or stay down. This is the start of Act 3.
Your hero, should you go for a good ending, will rise up, accept their weaknesses and become stronger for it.
This is the basic story structure you could write your story around.
22 days later
I am aware of that fact. The structure here is tied heavily to the growth of the characters, and their roles in this story. The first two chapters minimize the other characters roles just to make it so you understand the protagonist from the very beginning, and each chapter exists to in some way develop the characters and their problems and their relationships.
I don't know. It just happened. I'm actually laughing as I type this for some reason. Something about this whole situation is just really funny to me.
Are you actually interested in advice or are you just a troll? It doesn’t seem like you are actually interested in writing. It comes off like you want to be needy for the sake of needy.
You are asking people to respond to posts they made a month ago. Have you actually sat down to draw or write anything new? It’s hard for people to give you new advice if you are not really taking the effort to make new stuff.
Yes. I just started drawing this right now. Why did my comment about laughing indicate I was needy? What's the connection?
I also outlined like 10 chapters of Penelope Dreadful and finished a 2000 word draft, and posted it to the forum. I'm surprised you didn't see it.
Considering their constant harassment and defensiveness combined with their utter lack of progress, I’m assuming that yes they are a troll.
"Suspiciously" is very vague. Like I wouldn't suspect myself of being a troll if I met me. What about my behavior is suspicious and how should I change it?
What makes people think you’re a troll is the fact that you ask for advice and then don’t really seem to take any of it into account. People have left you tutorials, given you advice, and answered your questions but you still don’t really seem to be implementing any of it into whatever you’re doing because every time you come back your discussions are essentially the same.
Like with your questions about character designs- many people gave you advice including on how to draw different body types and heads and then you just posted another thread asking for help with drawing a head and didn’t take any of the previous advice into account.
Most people have given you suggestions that basically tell you to start with the basics or common tactics many artists learn in their art or writing journey (loomis method, 3 act structure, watching tutorials, etc). But you ignore that and continue with what you’re doing. You ask for advice about cliches and people give you advice but you completely shut down their thoughts and insist that they’re wrong, or the way you question them feels very negative. You don’t seem to take any of the criticism into anything you’re doing. It makes you seem like you’re trolling.
I understand that it’s hard to instantly start implementing things you’re learning into your art or writing, especially if you’re new or unlearning bad habits, but all of your questions can be answered with very simple and similar answers- go back to the basics. Watch tutorials, look up youtube videos, do your research, use references. And people offer you these answers but you don’t seem to be really listening.
So, to be clear… the issue in the case of the hobie brown thing is with the fact that I started a new thread specifically, the hobie brown one, instead of showing that I’d learned something about character design. It’s not something else i’m not getting, it is that exact thing.
Am I correct?
Also I looked back on the cliche one and I was normal. I didn’t dismiss anyone’s input, I just explained my choices and also changed them to adjust to their advice. The one real piece of advice I got to do anything different was not to use the terms “dark lord” and “Heiroe” so I changed them.
We've suggested it before, and I suggest it again: you need to find a healthier way to assuage your doubts about this hobby than spamming the forum with a new thread every time something worrying crosses your mind.
I'm talking about my characters wants though. Like my protagonist doesn't need to be the chosen one, he wants to be. The chosen one doesn't need to give up all responsibilities and all intimate human connections in favor of drifting through life, but he wants that. What the protagonist of my story needs is to let himself live and realize that he was never responsible for the worlds problems, and the death of his mother was not his fault. The chosen one needs to realize that avoiding emotional intimacy by hiding behind snark and apathy won't make him feel any better, and that there are people worth letting in emotionally.
Now that I put it like that... I think there actually could be a good use for a chosen one/not chosen one swap story-wise. Because both characters would clearly be far more miserable if they had what they wanted. If Nobody was just a random dude from the start, he'd just find some hole to do drugs and eat junk food in until he dies young because there's no reason not to, and if Heiroe was the chosen one from the start then he'd spend his whole life hating himself for things far outside his control and it would drive him mad with all the pressure, and both characters would just continue to push people away further until they're both utterly alone.
I guess you were right. I think my misunderstanding of my own story was why this conversation happened. Because there was in fact a want and need here, and therefore the characters would in fact be unhappy with what they wanted, but I didn't realize how they ft together until I described them directly like this, so I ended up describing a version of these characters that had no real conflict related to their desires.
To be fair I don't think he's a troll at all. An overabundance of questions seems normal for people who aren't neurotypical though.
8 days later
I don't understand what I'm supposed to do here that I don't already. I could write a 30 page book report on my own plot explaining all the characters and how their stories work and why. What do I not seem to comprehend and what are the words of a person who does understand this stuff? Like what would I do if I understood this that I'm not currently doing.