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Jul 2023

In Save the Cat! There's a bit of detail on this setup beat, where it's suggested you show the character's life, and illustrate what's lacking in it, by showing the protagonist at work, at rest and at play. Lego movie follows the beats of "Save the Cat!" very closely.

So rather than thinking of this setup as a bunch of scenes lacking a "therefore", it's better to think of it almost more like a montage showing Emmett's conformist life where he doesn't quite fit in.

As a general rule, cause and effect keeps the story ground. Something that comes out of nowhere for no reason is generally considered a plot contrivance or deus ex machina. Worlds general work on cause and effect, logical consistency, you know? However, plot and narrative can be different. For instance, if you're telling a non-linear plot, it might not be presented as action then consequence. You might see the consequence before the action, but it will still have been an action then a consequence. In the same way prologues about who the world was created don't necessarily lead directly to the plot, but will have somehow affected it.

And again, it's things like overall plot structure more than scene to scene. Things like LOTR, the prolgoue doesn't directly lead to the next scene. It's not because the ring wasn't destroyed so we can have a party . It's because the ring was not destroyed, the ring is in Bilbo's possession so it can be passed on so it can be destroyed.

"Most stories don't have that kind of a moment" They do. The reason it happens over and over again is because the price they pay for getting what they want will change what they want. It happens a lot, gaining importance until the final act where they're sure they want this thing and they get it.

For the "returning to what is familiar to them" it's similar to the return home in the hero's journey. It's used to highlight how far the character's come because back with a familiar élément you can contrast to see what's changed. Zuko does go back to the fire nation that's been his home for most of his life, but changes it for the better. Shrek goes back to the swamp with friends, etc...

I think instead of just looking at the craft tips you're given and questioning them on the surface, try understanding what those tips are getting at. Usually craft tips are giving you some slightly easier to grasp examples of using contrast to highlight change, creating conflict to get tension in the story, give readers a reason to feel something about your characters, etc...

The specifics of craft book structure will not apply to every story, but the spirit will, so you need to work to understand the spirit of the tip and apply it to your story.

To apply the therefore/but idea to what you've said you need to boil down to core motivations and essentials.

  • Heiroe is told a fundalental lie that his life has a purpose (presumably to kill Bad guy) by the king who he trusts

SO

  • He mistrusts his family and other people generally and feels a loss of purpose. (Feeling bad for everything done wrong doesn't immediately track with feeling betrayed).

BUT

  • BIG BAD that he thought he was supposed to beat is making people suffer

SO

  • He finds a new purpose in life to find the "real chosen one"

SO

  • He has to learn to trust others because this is a task he can't do alone

SO

  • While growing as a person he gains new friends and New values in his life and no longer feels guilt for not achieving the King's impossible standards

SO

  • With the help of the team he finds the actual chosen one (what he wanted)

BUT

  • Chosen one doesn't want to do it? / Turns out Heiroe was rhe chosen one all along? / Finding the chosen one reawakens some jealousy or mental anguish from the King's betrayal? →MORE CONFLICT

SO

  • The team have to find a way to convince the chosen one to come with them / get Heiroe to be good enough to fight big bad / get chosen one where he needs to go while dealing with Heiroe's emotional crisis

Etc etc ..

Side-note but IMO this seems like a parody name even when I read your first few pages... Especially as you've got a chosen one story which are very overused tropes therefore they're often used for laughs and genre satire. Like yeah he's the heir and the hero but it seems really on the nose, like if a secretly traitor character was called Liar McBad. The names of all the characters all come in to make the story feel really generic. I get some japanese anime do this but it's usually in a foreign language for the intended primary audience and also actually gags (Dragon ball comes to mind). Aang is not called "Saayvior" and Zuko isn't called "Firebad".

I accidentally hit send half way through don't mind me

I would simplify it and first try to focus on one character.
Heiroe or Nobody.
And tell the story from that perspective with minimum other characters
and then build the story from that.
And then write a summary of the story with understandable goals
with a plot that makes sense.

You can still add the other characters but I think you need a good
fundamental story that makes sense and works

I think you are somewhat missing the deeper meaning of what the Lego Movie is about. The movie is told from the perspective of a child who is unhappy with his father’s strict rules. The song “Everything is Awesome” is a song a kid would sing to themselves while they play. Emmet is an extension of the child, and represents his struggle to play within the premade Lego sets his father set up. While Wyldstyle represents the concept of creativity and not worrying about strict structure when playing with Legos. A lot of this is paralleled with a “Chosen One” narrative but the story has more depth than that.

So the way it’s described it feels like this moment isn’t even something you make happen, it’s just something that probably will happen to your story anyway. Like how specifically do I use it to improve my story? It doesn’t seem like any of this stuff was stuff I even had to add because it seems to be all there somewhere.

Which parts of the story I described are the cliche parts?

I understand that stuff. I just don’t see how it relates to this conversation.

There's a diference between a characters want and need. A want is what a character thinks they need, but generally a basic heroes journey will have a character evolve to the point where they realise they don't need their want and that's when they achieve their need.

Take the latest Puss in Boots movie. Goldilocks wants the wishing star to wish her family back. Everything she does is in purpose of that single goal, but in the end she realized she already had a family with the 3 bears. She needed to accept she already had what she wanted.

Same with Puss, he wanted more lives to he a courageous hero again, bu he needed to learn courage comes from facing fear, not the lack of it

I know that, and I don't see how it connects to what I said.

Ok, so I think all this is getting sorta carried away from the main point.

Structure, when it comes down to it is, basically beginning, middle and end (this also applies to scenes in general but that's too minute). How much goes to each is dependant on your story's genre and style and conventions. Generally, your beginning and end should be shorter. If you had to put a ratio on it, something like 1st quarter, set up/beginning, 2nd and 3rd quarter middle and last quarter end. You 2nd quarter should be build up and adventure and the 3rd quarter should be all build up to your climax, and then your last quarter would be recovery and wrap up. How uneven these quarters are, of if there aren't extra bits, depends on the specific set up of your story. Some will skip almost everything after the climax, some will go on forever, some will skip straight to the build up and ignore a slower "normalcy" type opening. This is structure.

When talking about flow, that's a lot more about presentation and how these things connect to each other and if you will present them connected to each other. And much of that is about execution. Consider this like the scene to scene, shot to shot editing in the film. You don't notice when it's good, but you do notice when it's jarring (hopefully because it was intended to be and not by accident).

You know it, but I get the sense you don't really understand it. That's why I tried to explain it with a different set of examples.

A story is about a character's growth, first and foremost. The inner workings of your hero's psyche should be your top priority. Get to know their strengths and weaknesses.
Start out the story showcasing their strengths in their familiar enviroment. This is Act 1.
In Act 2 you confront them with their weaknesses, at first a bit and then by a lot, to a breaking point.
Now they ate faced with a choice, rise up or stay down. This is the start of Act 3.
Your hero, should you go for a good ending, will rise up, accept their weaknesses and become stronger for it.

This is the basic story structure you could write your story around.

22 days later

I am aware of that fact. The structure here is tied heavily to the growth of the characters, and their roles in this story. The first two chapters minimize the other characters roles just to make it so you understand the protagonist from the very beginning, and each chapter exists to in some way develop the characters and their problems and their relationships.

I don't know. It just happened. I'm actually laughing as I type this for some reason. Something about this whole situation is just really funny to me.

Are you actually interested in advice or are you just a troll? It doesn’t seem like you are actually interested in writing. It comes off like you want to be needy for the sake of needy.

You are asking people to respond to posts they made a month ago. Have you actually sat down to draw or write anything new? It’s hard for people to give you new advice if you are not really taking the effort to make new stuff.

Yes. I just started drawing this right now. Why did my comment about laughing indicate I was needy? What's the connection?

I also outlined like 10 chapters of Penelope Dreadful and finished a 2000 word draft, and posted it to the forum. I'm surprised you didn't see it.

Considering their constant harassment and defensiveness combined with their utter lack of progress, I’m assuming that yes they are a troll.

(post withdrawn by author, will be automatically deleted in 24 hours unless flagged)

Maybe this is a bad question, but what would make you think I'm not a troll? Like is there anything I could do to prove I'm not a troll tomorrow, or by the end of the week? Is a month possible? And if so what is it?

Most likely? All that’s needed is for you to stop acting suspiciously.