Are we a bit "subscribe crazy"?

UzukiCheverie 2016-06-07 21:20:19 UTC #7

welp we're done here, this person just delivered ultimate wisdom and we need not wonder anything ever again

/slow clap

Along with people who just haven't improved enough yet to gain those subs, there are also people on the opposite spectrum - people's whose comics are actually pretty good, art and story wise, but they're so damn impatient and petty that it actually turns me off from subbing more.

Ex. "My comic ONLY has 20 subs and it's been up for a week? CLEARLY there's a mistake here, I mean, MY comic is GORGEOUS and it SHOULD have 1000+ subs by now!"

like srsly stfu lol your comic is good but that doesn't mean there are gonna be subs crawling out of the woodwork, there are a LOT of good comics here.

Whether your comic is good OR bad, subs aren't gonna just come flying towards you just because you wish for it. You need to work for it and be patient. If you're not getting subs, don't fucking blame the community or the web host - focus more on improving your craft and marketing yourself. Put that spite into something productive instead of just wallowing in your own ego.

Also yes, believe it or not, quality also plays a role in getting subs. If you're not quite at the artistic level you want to be at, that's okay - we were all there at one point - but instead of acting like you still should be getting more subs than the gorgeous full color realism style comic, work on improving your art and writing and comic-making. Don't blind yourself with jealousy and envy so much that it hinders your own improvements, y'know? That one is just the harsh truth from me though.

niinasalmelin 2016-06-07 21:21:39 UTC #8

I feel you, but it's also like @alaingrey said, it's frustrating if you feel like all your hard work is for nothing.

I think it also has something to do with those few comics that have gotten promotion and many subs with only few updates. Perhaps it makes people think 'ohh it's that fast!' even if in reality you have to be either really lucky, or already have huge following that they've been building for years to make that happen.

tomatobird 2016-06-07 21:31:46 UTC #9

Everything to what everyone has said!! I know it's frustratign when it seems like no one is viewing your stuff, but honestly especially if it's only been a short time, what do you expect? All the greatest most popular webcomics I can think of (that are off-Tapastic) have been running for 5-10 years or more, and I'm pretty sure that they were not that popular at their starts as well!

Thinking about something Austin Kleon said i think in the book "Steal Like An Artist" (or maybe it was his second one) about the positive side of obscurity–it means that you have much more room to experiment and try different things without the same kind of pressure of having an audience that expects a specific kind of thing from you. As someone who has literally just started posting my comic (like, yesterday) Its something I need to remind myself of and honestly it is kind of a relief to be able to work on something I love without worrying too much yet about what people will think...

Iaikaa 2016-06-07 21:50:01 UTC #10

Yeah it can get pretty weird how much people obsess over their subscriber counts. I've come from Smackjeeves to Tapastic and I kinda feel like it's easier to get randomly spotted on Tap so I'm not complaining.

I also think that it's not only matter of how long your comic has been up on the site but how much the story has progressed. I think one reason I'm starting to get more subs per update now is that something is actually starting to happen in my comic/ the new reader can actually get a feel for it. There is no way to tell if a comic is your cup of tea with 5 or even 10 pages (unless it's a gag per day kinda thing, those are kinda easier to judge page by page).

miseryhunting 2016-06-07 21:58:35 UTC #11

@69Erocento I agree with you; for you to put something online you make it available to strangers and sometimes they can become your greatest supporters. However, caring about gaining approval and and obsessing over a number and the speed with which you can accumulate subscribers shouldn't be the same - getting feedback and getting followers is not the same. Does it need to be a huge one too? As in life, not everyone would be the "prom queen". Isn't having 100 people reading your comic, I story you came up with and drew yourself, satisfying? Having small, but friendly following base is just as good and useful when it comes to receiving acknowledgement.
IS there a line, a number, after which a creator can be content? I think this opens a good discussion about creating comics online and the purpose for it. Do we all have to be on top (an impossible feat) to be considered successful? Is and should your self-worth as an artist be entirely dependent on a number?
I know many people want to make it professionally, and there's nothing wrong with that! I respect dedication and hard work.

@thomassayle touche, dude ;D

keii4ii 2016-06-07 21:59:44 UTC #12

It's always been like that as far as I can tell XD

To be honest, I've been hesitant to ask even that because it might look like I just want more subscribers.

69Michi 2016-06-07 22:06:21 UTC #13

Aye, yeah I'm all for an active fanbase/reader than a large amount of subs with little to no communication between me and my readers. I feel like that sort of thing just to contribute into people's pride. The bigger your subs count, the better to brag about it, or something of that line LMFAO To a lot of people, it just makes them feel good about their works looking at a large numbers that give them no /negative/ feedback than taking in constructive but often pointing out one's flaws feedbacks from a smaller but more active subs count.

I do self-promo once in awhile but overall I'm just a chill ~~and lazy~~ person who just sit back and let my art speak for itself. Though I also understand the important of supporter because I do commission and sell arts online too, the more people know about me, the better for my work.

TristanJensen 2016-06-07 22:41:01 UTC #14

Personally I'm more worried about losing the ones I have. But I can see why some people would want to try that method for getting more, people will always think there's a faster way to get somewhere, and they have a good reason to think that. I've seen comics with pretty average art and writing climb the charts while smaller ones with great art kind of linger bellow. I've tried to give shutouts to those because honestly I'd rather see them above me than below*...

This is EXACTLY why I make comics right here.

shazzbaa 2016-06-07 23:09:06 UTC #15

I mean, sure, but usually it's the opposite -- the more readers you have, the greater the percentage of people who want to comment and interact. Wanting a bigger readership isn't always about "I WANNA SEE A BIG NUMBER," sometimes it's just "I really want to see more people engage with this story, and I want to figure out how to get more readers who will."

So I dunno about it always being for the wrong reasons. What I do see is people who have a lot of expectations that aren't realistic, and they don't know it. I remember one thread where someone said "I know it's not easy, but it shouldn't be this hard!" to which creators responded, "No, it actually is this hard, this is normal." Many people have no concept of how long it takes to get known in the field of webcomics, and so younger creators feel behind when it takes them a long time.
And I think that's kinda true everywhere, in every field -- we have the concept of a "Ten Year Overnight Success" because someone who's been working hard for years will still be perceived as an "overnight success" when people suddenly hear of them, and we don't realise how long it took them to get there.

The amount of threads on the subject is frustrating, but I get where it comes from. I don't think it's all people who want to cheat... it's mostly young artists who think they've missed something. That other people know a trick that they don't know. They just don't realise that most of the time the trick is "update consistently for 4 years."
Though I do sometimes wonder if being able to see subscriber numbers is hard on new, young creators, just because it makes you feel like you're supposed to have an audience. I wonder if that's contributing to making some feel that something's wrong if they don't have one yet.

The question strikes me as feeling more all-or-nothing than creators really are. Like, I would continue to tell my story even if I never got another subscriber -- but I would still be excited to get more subscribers. I really want to make it to 1000! Does that mean I'm not content until I reach that arbitrary number? Of course not! It just means I want to grow, and I set myself a little goal to hope for because goals are motivating for me. Is the number the sole definition of my worth? No, of course not! But it is kind of cool to have a sorta tangible measurement of readership to look at.

I don't think it's ignoble to have an audience and still aim to grow!

sorrelma 2016-06-07 23:43:47 UTC #16

this attitude frustrates me so because tbh tapastic has great response time for feedback and the team does a lot to help out with making the site run + accommodating both readers and creators. it's actually super refreshing(for me at least) to see staff that care so much about users ESPECIALLY creators !! it seems so rude and dismissive to say they don't do enough for not promoting every comic but i see this attitude so much ;;

i understand the desire for attention. everyone feels that. of course i want more subscribers and more validation; at the same time, i've been running webcomics for a long time and i understand that part of it is successful marketing, part is quality content, and part is luck. there isn't an.. exact equation for success per se - but people will still go looking for it. i can't really blame them. i think it happens in any industry.
but also i mean... you have to remember that every subscriber you gain is a person(or a bot) they have their own lives and their own projects(or binary code) so you can't expect everyone in the world to drop everything and kiss your feet, esp if you're not putting out good work and you're not trying to improve !

carloswebcomic 2016-06-07 23:46:02 UTC #17

Well, of course people are subscriber crazy. It's the reason most people are here.
If you put your comic on the internet, it's because you want an audience.
Subscriber numbers gives you a tangible number to asses how well (or badly) you're doing.

Unfortunately, getting subscribers is hard as there is a lot of competition. People are already doing the best they can and not getting the numbers, so they begin to feel that they are doing a lot of work with no return, hence the "how do I get more subscribers?" threads.
People hope for a magic solution to satisfy their hunger for validation.

alaingrey 2016-06-07 23:57:35 UTC #18

Yeah 100%. I've had some friends trying to make an art site and their terrible management really makes me appreciate how forward thinking tapastic is, even if it's just a small site and small team.

I think what people don't realize is that staff curates, and curating means not giving everything the time of day. Some comics don't need to be featured because they're not of a quality that deserves promotion, and I think it's hard for people to see beyond what they imagine they're creating. So yeah, staff does a great job of highlighting those that are deserving, and though it may seem harsh, if you're not deserving, you just need to examine and possibly change what you're making. not saying it's easy to do, or even to come to terms with the possibility you might need to do something, but that's how your art gets better, not by begging for attention.

69Michi 2016-06-08 00:11:41 UTC #19

Statistically speaking, yes, but I have experienced a lot of inactive watcher/subscriber throughout the years to know that bigger number doesn't mean more people would be interacting sadly : ( But to be honest to myself, it always feels good to have a large number of audience.

Most people I saw posting those kinds of question are either too hasty, haven't been doing webcomic for long, or generally... just lazy to search up on other 82390213 topics that are of the same topic already existed in the forum. This is why I can see where the frustration seeing those topics keep popping up came from.

Michelle 2016-06-08 00:46:26 UTC #20

I feel like a lot of creators seriously overlook the value in making genuine connections with other artists. So many people are focused only on getting more eyes on their own work, that they only ever promote themselves. But there's a lot of value to be had in supporting your fellow artists and their work and not always crying "MEMEME!!".

But, like you said, people shouldn't go badgering random popular artists to promote their stuff! If you make genuine connections with people, they'll be more likely to help you out. And the stuff you learn from other artists feeds back into improving your own comics which in turn leads to more readers. :>

indagold 2016-06-08 00:48:21 UTC #21

I guess anyone likes exposure but when it comes to being a self centered pile of garbage things are different. I see already people on who are popular artists bitch and whine they wish they were more popular or people who don't have patience and go apeshit after posting their comic after 5 seconds and wondering why they don't have 5000+ suscribers. Also people who seem to suck and have little skill always mistaking their ability as better and become rather narcissistic over their perceived aptitude. They seem like the type to get really obsessed over subscriber count.
This applies everywhere though. I see it nearly on all art and writing sites.

Greg_Dickson 2016-06-08 01:01:41 UTC #22

I'm going to chime in now, because I know that I've made a post or two, relating to the topic. I did make a couple of suggestions in a previous closed thread on ways I thought small creators could find a way to get more noticed. Among them, yes, I did mention that it would have been nice to have some kind of thread where larger creators could check into smaller creators comics, see if there's anything they genuinely would like to promote, and maybe take a minute or two to chime in. However, I never said it with the tone to guilt trip anyone. In fact, I specifically said I was making my suggestion with the intention not to guilt trip anyone or place a blame on anyone.

I've been thinking about this more today, and now that I really have taken some time to mull it over...the cause for a lack of views may just be because summer is here. Aren't kids now getting out of school, and everyone doesn't want to spend their time inside reading webcomics? Granted, I have been discouraged today, but I also know that fame doesn't come in a day. We do create for ourselves, but I do believe that we all create for others to take joy in our creations too. I think we all come here with a dream to grow, and the way it is, some grow faster than others. I think that some people get frustrated seeing their work come to a standstill. I know that I've done everything possible for my comic so far since I've started. Release content weekly, be vocal in forums and in comments in other people's comics, and I even went as far as to set up a twitter account and learn how to use it. But despite all of that, I may have currently hit my viewer/sub peak. But after reading this thread, I've noticed that this hump I'm stopped at won't improve until I release a lot more content. I had a good talk with Kayke today, and she made a good point to me. When you start your comic, if you don't have many pages, it's like only having the content of the first 5 minutes of a movie. As good as it may be, it's still only a short amount. People haven't gotten the chance to know or to be invested in your characters and story yet.

I've really learned a lot today after all of these threads and discussions. I'm not going to lie, there are still some feelings of discouragement. It's only natural. But there have also been feelings of hope given to me. Despite how hard and discouraging it may be, I'm going to be strong and see this through. Because in the end, my comic is for me, and hopefully when it picks up steam someday, I'm hoping it can be for some of you too.

miseryhunting 2016-06-08 01:17:20 UTC #23

Well, of course people are subscriber crazy. It's the reason most people are here.

This isn't necessarily true! Remember - a large part of Tapastic users readers only! I didn't pick Tapastic because I thought I would get more subscribers or hoped o get numerous followers, but because it's easy to use and lets me keep track of the other comics I'm reading. It was more for the atmosphere than any ambitions. The very decision to post in here is already upping your chances to find an interested audience as you know this is a comic focused platform used by comic fans.

If your work is good, it's gonna speak for itself. But number of subs is such an unreliable information! Many quality works have very small following, in fact, my 2 favourite comics don't have more than 300 subs, which is small compared to the more popular creators. People unfollow for so many different reasons like number of notifications, specific/problematic topic of the comic, unnatural flow, etc.
So people expecting subs to reflect their "talent level" is unrealistic.

I don't mind people enjoying getting followers or putting some small goals for themselves, but as I mentioned in previous posts, if your wish to get subscribers out weights your desire to actually tell the story, maybe you're doing this for all the wrong reasons.

Kura 2016-06-08 02:32:09 UTC #24

In my personal experience, the ones most vocal or frustrated or confused about my lack of subscribers are my readers and friends/family. It seems to be a point that comes up in my comments section or in conversations a lot.

"Why are your sub numbers so low?"
"I don't understand why this is not more popular."
"You need to do something to get your numbers up, I've seen some really trash comics with three times the number as you."
"You need more subs."
"How do so little people KNOW about this comic????"
"You're doing something wrong Kura, how are you subs so low?"
"What the hell is with this lack of support?"
"Why is your subcount so low???"
"You REALLY need to do something about your subs."

And yeah, when you're asked that question so constantly all the time you really do start to question 'what am I doing wrong?' even when I usually don't really care too much about numbers as long as the $money$ numbers I'm getting from the comic are not taking a dive and are still able to help with the bills. Though it is nice that a lot of people I know, and readers that I only know as readers, want me to do well and succeed. That flatters me, really it does.

mappypaint 2016-06-08 03:54:36 UTC #25

I remember when I started uploading my comic online and wanted to have a big subs number, but I never begged for subs from other people. As the years go by I learned that subs/fan count is just a number, and my motivation changed from subscriber numbers to just doing my thing. I've already accepted that my art style, story, etc. won't attract those really high subs numbers, but i'm happy that I just do what I like, something different. I already told people in one of the many other subs thread that my subscriber numbers is struggling only to people who cares so much about subs. If they are after subs then they can just do the same things the popular ones do or do something mainstream.

Mharz 2016-06-08 05:04:18 UTC #26

I think it's natural for creators to want to have more subs. You know, the more subs you have, the higher percentage/chance you can gain support (monetary and emotionally) at least statistically. But sub numbers should NEVER be the basis of an artists' credibility/validity. Especially if you're just starting out.

At the end of the day, these numbers isn't something people can control and there are no methods/cheats/tricks that are available. So I just accepted that fact and just focus on stuffs I can control: producing more content and market them best as I could. If more people reads then cool!

That is totally expecting way too much especially if there's only like 5 pages uploaded to the public (Unless you accidentally became viral which is like 0.0001% chance).

I think 20 subs within a week is pretty good progress IMO. I'd be lucky if I gain one in a week.

Agree. Just look at the trending stuffs on twitter and then just do a comic/art about it. I doubt you can be true to yourself doing that but it'll definitely gain some traction (probably).