Are you an outliner or a pantser?

[allenT]

Outliners, but I only pantsering dialogues at the last minutes (most of the time ).

[thepenmonster]

Whatever is needed at the time

[NickRowler]

My first webcomic was a pantser, I do not recommend. Things just got harder to manage the further I got along. Going pantser for a 4 or 8 page comic might be doable, but 80 page, I would recommend to do some sort of outline. My guess is the same would apply to novel writing. It could work for a short story but might cause a headache for writing a longer series.

Usually with my comic, I will write chapter outlines before I start working on them. I noticed writing too far in advance lead to me just scraping a lot of ideas. I like to give myself some wiggle room to adjust if needed.

With the gag strips, it’s mostly just brainstorming a bunch of ideas and picking ones that work. I read in a book that recommended writing a list of ideas. Some people will carry around a small notebook and add to it if they suddenly get inspiration.

[ButterflyEmpress]

I can't pants. I'll get stuck somewhere again. This time I'm finishing the entire outline

[BoomerZ]

There is really only one way to write and that is with an outline. There are professional, well paid writers that have been doing this for decades that still write themselves into a corner all the time. Game of Thrones is a good example. You can get away with it for a while but it will catch up to you. Outlines give you a destination to work to and help you plan how to get there. It also allows you to make a coherent story and now just a wandering narrative.

[cherrystark]

I am a pantser but in my case, it's less "I sit down and BS an entire story and call it good" and more "I am crafting a scene in my head and putting it on paper." I am constantly revamping scenes in my head, whatever sticks around the longest, usually ends up in the scene.

There is really only one way to write and that is with an outline. There are professional, well paid writers that have been doing this for decades that still write themselves into a corner all the time. Game of Thrones is a good example. You can get away with it for a while but it will catch up to you. Outlines give you a destination to work to and help you plan how to get there. It also allows you to make a coherent story and now just a wandering narrative.

Yes, and there are professional, well-paid outlines who also write themselves into corners all the time. Outlines don't stop them from having plot holes or creating poorly constructed scenarios. It also doesn't stop writers from presenting the same story just with different plot devices (like Star Wars and Harry Potter.) A coherent story needs a writer who is actively focusing on crafting story.

[moontokkym]

I do want to add just in case it's not clear: both methods are equally viable in professionnal practice and usually professionnal writers are a solid mix of both, even though they'll tend to lean towards one or the other.

It can also be useful to think of outliners as being "front loaded" where most of the work comes before the first draft is written, while pantsers are "back loaded" where most of the work comes after the first draft is written. Pantsers will tend to have more extensive structural edits in draft 2 while someone who is a good outliner will be able to concentrate more on tightening scenes and moving more minor things around without completely changing which act scenes happen in for example.

Also both have their advantages and flaws. For one, pantsers tend to actually be able to finish first drafts even if they don't want to go through the editing process afterwards, they still have a book, whereas outliners who abandon a project might just have 2 chapters and 50 pages of notes. Outliners might have an easier time working in collaboration because they can make plans and follow them while pantsers might have a harder time adapting to the lessened freedom that comes with working on a team.

Saying or arguing one or the other is "better" or "more professional" is a frivolous endeavour that does no one any good.

[cherrystark]

Saying or arguing one or the other is "better" or "more professional" is a frivolous endeavour that does no one any good.

I agree!!! It's like arguing the best way to learn! As long as you're learning, why does it matter? People need to learn how to write best for themselves. A lot of online people tote outlining as the only way to operate, which can leave a lot of newer writers frustrated. They need to learn their own style.

[Lensing]

100% agree with both of you and I know some really famous comic artists / writers who are
pantsers and they reached a level of success we can only dream of

[BoomerZ]

My point was not that one is more professional than another. Professional means you get paid, that is all. My point is writers well into knowing their craft have written themselves into corners by not having a plan. And bringing up the "writers that plan also write themselves into corners" is not an argument to make, as by planning you have a better chance of not doing that. There are special writers than can just plow ahead and write as they go, keeping track of what's going on. But that is a very small minority, a minority you are most likely not part of. Those people are also mostly seasoned writers that know what they are doing, which if you are just starting out, is not you. Don't make it harder on yourself because you think you're special and can do it another way. People did not start writing yesterday. There is a process that works. Use that process.

[toonben]

An outliner works best for me to allow me organize my story and execute according to my plan. Pantsing can be tricky for me.

[pixxiepinks]

Oh, I didn't know there was a word for that! I've only ever heard people talking about outlining and how important it is to make a good outline and plan before ever writing anything.

I've never liked outlining my work and often times if I force myself to outline, I don't want to write anymore. My brain and creative muses just don't work well with structure I guess. Sadly, every time I've tried to explain how writing outlines tends to hurt my creative process everyone always thinks I'm either lying or trying to bluff....

So thanks for the thread! It's super nice to know that I'm not crazy and that its okay to write the way I do.

[vapidink]

Started out as a pantser and now-a-days I'm more of an outliner. It's just easier since I get a lot less time to write than I did back when I was a middle schooler writing fanfics. Now, when I finally sit down to write I have an idea of what to do so I get more done. I still do a mix of both now and then though.

[cherrystark]

I only am challenging you because the way it is coming across is a "one size fits all" approach. Just because you can work efficiently with an outline doesn't mean that every writer can. I can write an outline but I can't turn that outline into a story. I've tried it for years and can't make it work. I work better when I organize my thoughts in my head and start writing. I still know where I want my story to end up; the characters' backgrounds and character arcs, and even surprise twists I want to include - they're just in my head and not stuffed into notebooks somewhere.

I say this whenever a plotter vs. panster thread comes up. People need to learn the rules of writing and how they best think/operate. THAT is the process that works.

[HGohwell]

I think there's kinda a problem wiith defining one or the other in that most people ae some kind of mix of both, you'll very rarely have someone who's 100% no thoughts, empty head, nothing even thought of before I write, or 100% everything plotted out and character sheets to the detail and world to the detail and scene boards. Most people are somewhere on the spectrum.

I like to write like a road trip, I know my starting point and I know where I'm going and who I'm going with, and I know the stopping points along the way, but the route is a bit more unknonwn.

That said, there's a big difference between serial fiction, which lends itself to looser way of planning in many regrards but can easily become rambling and unfocused, or traditional published books who (expecailly in more traditional publishing spaces) have an editor to help you smooth things out. Of course, this doesn't stop people from having either planned a stupidly stiff book where the plan is more important than feeling natural and enjoyable, or rambling plot holes and corners. But everytime I see a professional writer or advice giver say "planning down to the smallest detail bc I tried pantsing once and wrote myself into a corner" I'm like did you not... do a second draft to work that out??? Or get betas/editors to help with that? Same with planning.

Like, these things are only really a problem if you're publishing your first draft. The problems with both style should be smoothed out in redrafting and editoing. And that's a first draft. They're supposed to be awful. And tbh, when it comes to first drafts, especailly if you're not publishing serially as you go, whatever gets it done is best.

[BoomerZ]

I like to write like a road trip, I know my starting point and I know where I'm going and who I'm going with, and I know the stopping points along the way, but the route is a bit more unknonwn.

This is an outline and what I'm describing when I say you need one. The small details you leave for when you are telling the story. This allows you to be spontaneous and creative, but you don't get lost. But you know the beats you need to hit, the cliff hangers you work to, and the climax to finish it up.

[abigaillmartin]

I used to never plan anything out, but most of the time that ends up being utter chaos so now I plan ahead for what is going to happen.

I’ve had too many instances where I got stuck in my story or wrote myself into a corner and many other things.

I plan.

[Mallory]

I'm both but I do vary how much I do of each by project.

I generally start with an outline of an idea - maybe a paragraph to a couple of pages. Then I break that down into chunks/chapters - though some chapters might be like "something super cool has to happen here to produce X result with Y emotional significance," because I just don't know YET how that's going to happen. From here, I go and write what I call the Goblin Draft, because it's literally a stream of consciousness word vomit of dialogue, visuals, and actions. In this Goblin Draft is where I let things kinda free flow and figure out those problem areas, where I couldn't figure out what I wanted to happen. I treat this Goblin Draft as wet clay, which I then heavily edit and check if the project appears to be capturing the vibes I want it to capture.

If I'm working for myself (i.e. in a webcomic or self-pub novel) I typically just begin the final project straight from the Goblin Draft and treat it as a more malleable process. I edit, thumbnail, sketch and write the final dialogue all in one step, tweaking as I go. For my "professional" workflow, i.e. project I'm trying to pitch to publishers or collaborators, I have a second cleaner draft that I write, with a proper script (which is a vastly cleaned-up Goblin Draft) and thumbnails (or placeholder paragraphs marking out the pacing, but needing further editing for voice and style). Then I edit that second draft.

I USED to take my outline and then write a more detailed spread-by-spread outline, then write a script from there, but I found it often limited my creativity and made my characters feel rigid and not super interesting to read about because they didn't offer any surprises. Goblin Draft allows for a lot more ~ spontaneity ~

[Kalebell]

I'm a pantser when I'm writing random short stories for fun that I'm probably not going to show anyone lol. I don't think I've ever been an outliner but as I take writing more seriously I'm working on building editing and worldbuilding habits. I just find it more fun to write from the top of my head sometimes, but it's also fun to outline stories and already have all the details down.

[Frogsnack]

I try to plan out the 'keyframes' if you will. I can't outline too much if I've not drawn the characters in their setting already, because the way they are drawn out tells me more about them. I have failed in creating characters many times because I've tried to outline them first, but if they don't work on the page in context then they don't work. I'd say now I'm always ahead by a dozen or so pages in the 'name' (Japanese word for comic sketch outline), but if it's text only I will lose the feeling of the souls of the characters and not be able to stick to the outline later (or more often, I get my best ideas while I am drawing the characters).
So does it depend on whether you are writing for a setting, a particular story, or for the characters/ worlds? To me, everything stems from the characters first. Curious about you all on that.