Can someone explain people who “world build too much”?

[AxemanRifflord]

You know the old joke about writers who have a comprehensive history of every little city in their story but can’t seem to push the plot forward? How? How does that happen? How do you just add garbage without considering how it would add to a larger whole? How do you not proceed to look at said garbage and think “this is a entire story in it of itself, it would be more productive to just put the other stuff to the side and make this it’s own thing for now.”

How do you flesh out a world for so long and not find a practical use for it?

Late edit because it’s bothering me: I’m referring to people who worldbuild and somehow still have writer’s block. I’m not dissing Tolkien for having talking trees.

What I don’t get about that type of struggle is that the more that’s already been written, usually the easier it is for me to write more.

[supersuper90]

I haven't had the pleasure to create history for every single aspect of my story yet, but I do love world-building. I would say I just like creating, I used to make little Lego moc Star Wars spacecraft and write entire specifications of their fake in-universe roles and origins. It's just the fun of creating and having control over something. I'm sure some people who do what you've described relate to Bethesda games where there are hundreds of little books and journal entries relating to lore, it's just fun to read, and why not create?

Yeah I'm sure there's a certain skill involved in balancing world-building and plot-moving-forwarding. But I'm very certain those who are guilty of what you've described don't see their extra writing as "garbage", they probably think their audience finds as much enjoyment in reading it as they do in writing it.

[Random_Guy]

I think this is reductive. Some people just enjoy worldbuilding, some people love the process of creating a world and figuring out every little bit about how it works.
To imply they are shitty writers for building a world instead of writing a traditional story is rude, and to imply that all the extraneous information is garbage is even more so. It's their choice to put it out, and you're choosing to judge that work for not being what you want, instead of what it is.
No one is required to write a traditional story, nor to write a story in the way you want them to, but beyond that, some writers are just better at world building than story writing, and prefer to build the world instead of harness it into a single story. Not everything has to serve some central plot, nor does a central plot even have to exist, if that's not what they're going for.

[bronte448]

I have this problem, the first three chapters of A Fresh Friend are like 90% world building. I'm trying to do better with Shatterswap. Also, unrelated, but how do you get pictures in your share boxes?

Read A Fresh Friend - an Undertale Hopetale AU | Tapas Web Comics

[AutumnAdmiral]

First of all, I think it's really rude to call those extra details "garbage". Most of the time, people are considering how that all fits into the whole, or maybe they think it's a fun thing to imagine and expand on. Both are valid. As someone who has developed approximately 70 different countries in my setting, knowing full well most of these will be relegated to side-stories if they ever appear, it's something that makes me feel more connected to the world I've created. I love the idea of having a setting that is more than just the story I'm currently focusing on, because that's how the history of our world is written. That's how I think of my world-building. I am focusing on one aspect of it, but that doesn't mean the rest of the world is in stasis. And you never know what you can bring in from all the ideas you come up with.

You can talk about 12th century English history and you can talk about 12th century Japanese history, these things are not necessarily tightly connected but they are both happening at the same time and both are part of a greater world history. Someone who wants a full understanding of the world would then look at both.

By your logic, one of these would be invalid garbage. Hope you re-think your stance on that, because it's extremely reductive.

[DokiDokiTsuna]

How do you not proceed to look at said garbage and think “this is a entire story in it of itself, it would be more productive to just put the other stuff to the side and make this it’s own thing for now.”

I think there's at least one simple answer to that: the garbage is not the story you want to tell. It's not a question of 'productivity', it's a question of artistic investment and purpose.

This kind of thing happens all the time when you create backstories...for instance, I got one backstory I've spent more time on than the main story it was meant for. ^^; A tale of a brotherhood of knights becoming a team, bonding together and fighting alongside each other, being torn apart by betrayal, and eventually becoming the ghosts they are in the main story (which atm barely even exists).

It is a good story in and of itself, yes. It could be its own thing...if I had any interest in writing in-depth about that type of story, or if I had a truly deep attachment to those characters, which I don't, to be honest. :T Describing a story is different from actually writing it...it may take a couple thousand words, but that's really nothing compared to the hundreds of thousands of words (and months to years of work and care) that would go into writing a full novel.

When you think of it ^that way, writing pages of aimless worldbuilding is actually easier than 'pushing the plot forward', if you're creative enough. It's much less stressful to idea-vomit about fun things that don't matter than to weigh decisions that could make or break your story.

[Kuma]

It happened to me because I love Worldbuilding.

I get in a roll and keep developing stuff until I get tired of doing so.

Add a dash of anxiety for not being perceived as "legit" enough in certain fantasy circles, a spoonful constant self-sabotaging perfectionism and a healthy sprinkle of "What-about" and you have a perfect stew of overcompensating worldbuilding.

I mean, I worked on and off for ten years to flesh out Centris' world.

Now that the joke remarks are out of the way...

I don't think there is anything I did for Centris that doesn't serve a purpose. If it didn't serve a purpose I wouldn't have done it. Even if its only to help me get into the headspace of the characters of giving me a sense of immersion into the world.

For example. A thread in this forum asked for Coffee or Tea for your characters. This was my reply

Novus (Left) is totally a caffeine gremlin. Or at least the closest thing in the setting, which is a chewing herb with similar properties. The only drink made from it involves turning it into a dust and mixing it up with a bird egg white. You cook the whole thing in water and the mix of egg white and herbs raises and forms a film over the liquid. You leave it jellify and get cool, you cut the upper layer and cube the rest. Each of this gelatin-esque cubes is dissolved in water and re-heated to drink.

Callis (Right) has a very sensitive tongue and avoids hot and flavorful beverages. He is in favor of cold milk infusions, usually common place in fall and spring, using the snow from the early and late snowfalls to cool it. Most herbs used by him are really soft in flavor and lack any spice or sweetness. Is more like a health drink than something to enjoy.

So far these beverage haven't appeared in Centris. But I get a lot of info about how the world works, how the character work and how they interact with the world that helps me write them, even if these drinks never appear in the book.

[NickRowler]

I think some people (maybe even myself included) struggle with trying to find a balance between what is necessary and what isn't.

I sort of gotten a bit frustrated with modern criticism (like CinemaSins) which says that a story has to explain everything or else it's a "plothole" or whatever. Put sometimes there are things that aren't important to the overall story. Like in Disney's Beauty and the Beast, what happened to Belle's mom is not important to the overall narrative of the story. Why she is missing can be something fans can be curious about and even make fan theory or fan fictions about if they wanted to. I think expecting creators to spoon feed you everything ends up with stories which come off a bit too bloated.

Sometimes it is good to just give your audience pieces and let them figure out what is going on. You could also leave it a bit open ended to let people have their own interruptions.

Worst comes to worst, you can always make a spin off that goes deeper into the lore which hardcore fans can seek out if they are curious.

[bronte448]

I'm proud of myself for figuring out how to fit this dude's little secret into my saga

[darthmongoose]

Backstory or setting detail, and the story you tell in your story, aren't the same thing, and you can't write a truly great novel or write and draw a great comic without both.

Some people put tons and tons of work into their background and setting, creating a really richly detailed world and knowing their characters down to their favourite flavour of milkshake... but they get so invested in hashing all of that out, or writing the fictional history of every continent in their Fantasy world that they either never get around to making an actual story and end up with something more like an RPG setting guide, or they tell a poorly structured story that doesn't start in an interesting place and meanders around, because they enjoy just existing in their world and around their characters so much, they don't realise it's less interesting for other people.

But then there are people on the other end of the scale, who write a rip-roaring story where stuff is going down! People are going places! Stuff is blowing up! ...But they never put any real thought into any background or characters, so everyone is a generic archetype you've seen in a million other comics or anime or light novels, every place is described or drawn with minimal detail... You know like those Isekai comics where every background is that same overused 3D model of a castle that's in every Isekai, and like.. no thought was put into the worldbuilding, so the clothes are all just that sort of... generic "Fantasy dress" you only see in webcomics, where peasants dress in sort of early medieval style clothes, but then the maids and butlers all dress like they're from Victorian England and the male royalty wear early 20th Century formal military uniforms? It's boring, uninspired, it looks like everything else and has no personality. It's basic.

The latter is easier to read, but you'll have forgotten it immediately after reading it. Specific detail is what gives a work personality, and yeah, you can't get too bogged down in it if your goal is to make something the audience can enjoy, but you shouldn't neglect it unless you truly don't mind your work being disposable. Some creators are fine with their work being just a "snack" that somebody consumes and discards, because it can make money, but others want to make stuff with a bit more staying power. If you get that perfect balance of both, that's when you get stuff that really sticks in people's minds, like Fullmetal Alchemist, or Final Fantasy VII.

[Stargazer31]

I do wish that isekai characters would wear different clothes every now and then (I'd love to see a cattlepunk or afro-futurist isekai.)

[RobertBMarks]

cattlepunk

Um...what is "cattlepunk"?

(I now have an image in my head of cows with colourful mohawks...)

[TheLemmaLlama]

I don't have anything new to add wrt why people do worldbuilding that won't feature in their stories, but I will say I also have some trouble understanding people who worldbuild 'minutia', as opposed to someone like me who does a lot of 'unnecessary' worldbuilding but builds 'outwards', integrating new things whenever cool ideas occur to me but not worrying too much about 'filling the gaps'.

My first assumption is it's born of 'anxiety for not being perceived as "legit" enough' as @Kuma put it, or not wanting to be nitpicked by CinemaSins-style pedants (although I'm 99.9% Sure CinemaSins is only being nitpicky for comedic/entertainment purposes and doesn't actually seriously believe most of the 'sins' need to be addressed). But maybe people genuinely enjoy being thorough like that, and maybe it's rude of me to assume it's fear/obligation just because I personally find it tedious ...

---

Also, unrelated, but how do you get pictures in your share boxes?

You need a banner :]

[CandyDaisies]

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[Kuma]

I suppose is some kind of Futuristic Western setting.

@Stargazer31 I saw a Sword and Sandals Isekai for a change, that looks more Greek or even older, instead of generic medieval.

[ar-ninetysix]

Bruh, just say you don't know how to make your world interesting outside of making reading material. It's okay, we won't tell anyone, promise

this is a joke, do not come after me pls i don't do well with confrontations

[Stargazer31]

It's wild west steampunk

[smokesalty]

some of us just like figuring out little things, it makes the world come alive! I don't think it's garbage to enjoy worldbuilding, and while I'm definitely not extensive with it, I think it's cool when people know all the little things about their world because they love it so much.

While yes, you can't include every detail, I don't think it's stupid in the slightest. It really is about how you present your information to the audience.

[TroyVSTheWorld]

I can explain people who world build too much!

Take JK Rowling, for example. Do you know how wizards relieve themselves of their bodily wastes? I do! Thanks, Rowling!

EDIT - I probably don't want to bring up the subject of JK Rowling right now because she just gets worse every time you hear from here

[LostKelp]

Yknow people buy Dnd books all the time, people have jobs about the lore of Tolkien books, I'll bet everyone here had a dragonology or wizardology or whatever book as a kid, the angelarium and all future tomorrow's and warhammer and scp archives are all just lore and people love that shit! It gives them a new world to explore the depths of and a new perspective on reality through the lense of an authors (usually multiple authors) imagination. I get that when you're reading through a fiction on ao3 that seems like a standard love triangle you can be blindsided by the info dump of the last 13 wars and revolutions of a minor island off the peninsula of who-what-where-now? But lore itself is fun, in its own way and can be used in lots of interesting ways to tell stories that you can't with just a few characters, like alot of people have said previously in this thread its not what you write its how you write it.