Can someone tell me their opinion on this?

[choilyriel]

So I saw this one YouTuber who read "trash" webtoon and criticize it, which I found entertaining

But then they mentioned something about "the artists/authors shouldn't post adult stories (which contains s*X, se*ual a*sault, gr**ming) because webtoon has a lot of younger audiences even tho the nsfw part is behind patreon"

So I'm a bit confused since I saw some bigger artists that have audiences did this where their stories are for adults but the nsfw content are behind patreon and there's a warning beforehand.

So what's your opinion on this, cuz I wanna know more on this community view

[BoomerZ]

It a gimmick to make money. Most stories don't need it.

[HGohwell]

It's a personal opinion. Some people do it some people don't. There are plenty of people who, for example, think that having a patreon at all is wrong, and hiding any content behind a paywall is wrong. You can argue that Webtoons is for younger audiences and so you shouldn't have any more mature themes like that in your story, but clearly Webtoons isn't cracking down, and neither is Tapas particularly. You can argue that such this like SA are gratuitous in most stories and rarely handled as well as they could be in big stories. And you can argue that if you can remove the NSFW content and have the story still work, it wasn't necessary, and if you can't then you're giving the reader half a story and that's not great. But that is all just opinion.

Personally, I think you do you. It's getting harder and harder to find places to post NSFW content, especially art, and I'm not going to condemn creators for trying to make money, especially since paywalled NSFW content is a pretty good way to do it.

[NickRowler]

I do think you can talk about these topics without going over board. I think the concerns is when a creator tries to romanticize or fetishize it. Or if they are purposely creating something to draw in super young readers, just show them inappropriate material (like the Elsagate stuff).

You can create a scene that implies SA without being too graphic about it. I think some teenagers are old enough to understand what it going on.

As for NSFW. I think it depends. If someone made their series for an older audience and it became popular with kids/teens, is it really the creator's job to adapt to that? Also, if someone has multiple projects, and one just happens to be for kids, should that mean they should never create anything not for kids? How are these kids even going to find out about the adult works unless their parents are letting them seek it out. But on the other hand, there are people who are just creeps who don't care if young readers see messed up stuff.

This has been something I have been thinking about. I often think of ideas for my series that are too mature for something that is mostly PG-13 and I wonder if I made a separate adult's only series, would I be criticized for that.

[moontokkym]

I'd say as long as the webtoon itself is labelled for older audiences there's no trouble in it. Webtoon is a 13+ platform and I'd compare it to a sort of "User Generated Netflix". Netflix has kids shows, Netflix has shows for all ages, Netflix also has Alien and Squid Game and so, so many other series and films with gruesome, gore, sexually explicit scenes and dark themes.

Does it mean that because Netflix also has kids shows, and kid audiences, and even sometimes kids will steal the password to watch Squid Game, Netflix shouldn't have the older audience content on there? Of course not! The series are clearly labelled for x age range and if you ignore that it's your problem.

I'd also say having 18+ stuff behind a paywall is one of the most effective ways to stop young kids getting access to nsfw stuff, even if for most people (myself included) it's not a choice, nowhere else really allows nsfw art if you're not on twitter hellscape. The paywall will stop basically 100% of kids under a certain age through lack of access to online payment methods. I personnally want my comic to continue to be 100% free to access (with the appropriate age warnings) but that's not possible once I get to certain scenes because of the bans on nsfw art. It's not a gimmick to make money, and even if it where, people would be paying of their own free will because they like the comic and want to see.

TL;DR: kids attempting to access content above their age bracket (and lying/ignoring warnings to do so) is going to happen and has happened since the dawn of time. Best we can do as creators of mature content is:

• correctly label for which age group your creation is for and make the warnings clear

• take advantage of all available tools to block 18+ content from view of minors

• make it clear that people under the age bracket are not welcome in adult spaces

• remove minors from adult spaces when (because they will) minors access the space nonetheless

I will say that if this isn't done then I do feel it's a bit off (like 16+ or even 18+ comics that aren't labelled as such or even labelled for all ages). Like as a nsfw creator I do not want children in the places where I am creating nsfw art, I don't think any nsfw creator would want that.

[harlan]

Sorry, you lost me at the part where the YouTuber is trashing people’s work and you were entertained by it.

[thepenmonster]

which contains s*X, se*ual a*sault, gr**ming

A creator is judged by the art they make.

They're also judged by the art they like. My view on people get off on this sort of content is that they should go dance in heavy traffic until Truck-kun comes along.

However if it does contribute to the actual story (You can't really have a Law and Order SVU episode without it) then there's plenty of space for it because it's bringing life to an issue.

But if it's just for a kink? beep beep

[RedLenai]

But then they mentioned something about "the artists/authors shouldn't post adult stories (which contains s*X, se*ual a*sault, gr**ming) because webtoon has a lot of younger audiences even tho the nsfw part is behind patreon"

I know literally no one reads nor cares about PG-13 or other ratings, after all, I've seen kids unders 10 years old playing GTA V or watching Deadpool in the cinema. So it wouldn't surprise me either that pre-teens under 13 are reading in Webtoon.
However, this YouTuber clearly doesn't know that Webtoon, especially originals used to be suited for mature audiences, with warnings too, where nudity, sexually gratifying content, dismemberment, violence and more was there. Obviously, just like YouTube began to regulate its content at the point that your video gets demonetized if you swear on them, Webtoon began to regulate its content not because they noticed kids under 13 were reading their stories, but because of the pressure from Credit Card companies, both Patreon and Pixiv FANBOX are under this issue as well, despite they are mature oriented.

However, Webtoon does put a warning on its content, but it wouldn't request users their age and limit their access based on their birth date. And as well, a lot of kids just go straight ahead mature content regardless of warnings, some even fake their age in order to get an account to access certain platforms (I was one two, literally made a Tapas account and faked my age just to read the NSFW scenes of a comic I liked)

So I'm a bit confused since I saw some bigger artists that have audiences did this where their stories are for adults but the nsfw content are behind patreon and there's a warning beforehand.

A lot of artists have Patreons without making NSFW, and even those that they do, you'll have to check their tiers to properly see what they are offering in exchange of your support.

Many have:
- Early access of around 3 to more episodes published before public platforms.
- Exclusive illustrations of the characters that doesn't go public (Be it early stages concept art, unused designs, and such)
- IRL process videos with narration of the artist, guiding others onto their creative process
- Tutoring and private classes to either learn how to draw or tell stories.
- Discounts and exclusive merchandise with shipping (plushies, mugs, pins, posters, artbooks, etc)
- High-Res downloadable files or PSDs
- Art requests or commissions
- Resources such as personalized brushes, textures, anything the artist created as a tool for their own series

And other rewards as well. I must remind you that adults... will, likely enjoy or talk about certain adult topics, just because something is NSFW doesn't mean it has to be taboo or involving minors or certain fetishes. And of course, to a certain degree is to interest fellow adults to support them, because, let's be honest, kids don't have the money to support an artist's career. And there is nothing wrong with NSFW, usually the people that do it, also enjoy or has no issue with the content, those that only do it for the money get tired eventually and switch back to being SFW creators.

As well, I don't know why you need to censor words here, there is no algorithm like TikTok or Facebook that'll get your account suspended or shadowbanned.
Not to mention, while this may not happen in the forum since there is no such a function, in other platforms like Tumblr, people filter words to avoid seeing certain content, if you use asterisk or write the word wrongly, it won't be filtered and it'll show to those that were originally trying to evade it.

[choilyriel]

That's why I put the " , and also the video I saw is literally criticizing the art and the story. They criticize how lazy the artist is cuz some of the panels are copy pasted so much in one chapter to the point that you can point it out instantly

The bg are taken from real pictures and it was not consistent at all. Some parts you can see it's in Japan/korea and some parts you can see it's in Thailand.

The reason why I found it entertaining cuz they pointed out how the mc biggest insecurity was that he's gay and was afraid to be grouped as 'stereotype' and yet he was drooling over every guys that he met and tried to make a move on someone that's already have a girlfriend or something

[kalmia]

let me guess, blacklightjack? xD. I’m sure most people would agree if they saw the video you were referring to lol.
I think there’s a fine line when it comes to posting “mature” or adult themes in comics. If your comic is clearly advertised for a younger audience and breaks webtoons tos, that’s one thing, but if you are portraying those things in a respectable and mature manner while also staying within webtoons guidelines, that’s completely different. The comic i’m pretty sure you’re referring to is essentially entirely hypocritical, fetishizes gay men and relationships, as well as using classic tropes and art styles that would attract a younger teen audience. I think that’s this biggest issue with the story itself. Not to mention that the comic is just very clearly a cash grab because the author knows they can suck the audience dry since people leach to any BL they find, even if it is just hot garbage and full of terrible tropes and low effort art that just copy and pastes the same 3 panels over and over again. And then offering NSFW on patreon of said BL characters? That’s like the jackpot for any teenager who has just gotten their first debit card lol.
It’s totally the creators right to post whatever the heck they want on patreon. But with that particular comic, it just feels weird.

Once it crossed into the territory of fetishization or glamorization, that’s when mature topics get too far. Unless that’s the entire purpose of the story and the author makes that clear within the writing, that’s different, but for an app like webtoon who has a primarily younger audience base, it’s a little weird to post fetish-y content there.

[TheLemmaLlama]

My opinion; fiction is not reality. You can't 'normalize' something if you attach a big flaming neon sign to it saying 'this is not and should not be normal'; just writing about it on its own is not harmful. Even if it's for fetish purposes, make it clear it's just a fantasy that should never, ever happen in real life.

The paywall will stop basically 100% of kids under a certain age through lack of access to online payment methods.

Huh, you know I'm generally against paywalls*, but this is a convincing argument for how paywalls can be used for good :0

*

(Not to be confused with being against creators having a Patreon and stuff. I'm pro-paying creators for their time (so they can make more content), just not their already existing content)

[ThunderChicken]

My take: Kids are kids, and kids are curious. The surest way to make a kid want to look at something is to tell them that they shouldn’t. But just because there’s the chance that a kid might use a platform doesn’t mean that everything should be Barney the dinosaur and Paw Patrol. If parents don’t want their kids seeing certain things then it’s the job of those parents to monitor what those kids are watching or looking at. And at this they will fail (because curiosity), so the real solution is for parents to explain these things to their kids and encourage questions. Punishing a kid when they ask about something that they saw will result in three things: The kid will learn nothing, they will look at it again, and they will seek more.

Way back in the early 1980’s, when I was 10-13 years old and VCR’s were just becoming a thing, I watched all kinds of inappropriate stuff. I had two older brothers, one 3 years older and one 6 years older, and because we only had one television in the house I watched what they watched. This included all the Cheech & Chong movies, some weird sex-romp comedies (“If you don’t stop it you’ll go blind” and “Can I do it ‘til I need glasses” still stand out in my memory), the Monty Python movies, and more. I didn’t understand most of it, so I asked questions. My parents answered, which was probably a good thing because had they not answered I’d have asked my brothers instead, and I can guarantee that their replies would not have been educational.

[VersusVII]

I don't remember when Tapas changed it's guidelines for adult content like s*x and NSFW, it was after ITunes banned some apps for that kind of content on its store because "Won't somebody please think of the children!?". Tapas decided to shadowban from the app the comics and novel who had NSFW in it, even if it was labelled or censored.
Some creators already sold the explicit version back then, but now that Tapas has 0 tolerance they put the majority of the spicy content on Patreon to avoid being hidden from the app and get more readers and audience.

[NickRowler]

I don't remember when Tapas changed it's guidelines for adult content like s*x and NSFW,

It was in 2018 after the US passed FOSTA-SESTA. The laws were a trojan horse, on the surface it seemed like it was going after sex trafficking. But their definition of what that meant was so broad that it also included a lot of naughty material including comics on Tapas.

[ThunderChicken]

I just picture Helen Lovejoy from the Simspons crying "Won't somebody PLEASE think of the children!!!"

[NickRowler]

It's something I find very frustrating about modern American politics. A lot of them try to push these extreme laws and anyone who criticizes them is told "So you don't care about keeping kids safe?". But a lot of these laws do very little to actually keep kids safe, they are mostly just performative. My area made a law to ban websites with adult material but it ended up only banning 2 sites. Plus Google for some reason will override the ban, so you can still search for adult material. The people who made the law claimed it would protect kids but it did nothing.