Collaboration discouragement

[marvelescent]

I have a question, and excuse the subtle attitude, but why is it that, when posting a collaboration thread (at least as a writer), even when you have details of the story, the details of what you're looking for, specifying the payment plan, offering to assist with sketches and finishing touches, like base coloring, lighting and shading, even text boxes, and all the details, why is it that the first responders are always people telling everyone the red flags and discouraging the project or the prospective interested people. I understand that, in some cases, bad things have happened to some, but it feels like I'm being flagged for spam, or as if I'm no better than a robot caller. Opportunity is right around the corner for an artist or writer who is willing to do the work, but the words "unpaid" should be enough to keep away people looking for paid work. Yet it's still not enough to keep people from telling you, basically, don't post here. I get their trying to help, but when the first 3 comments under my threads are saying "bad idea folks," how can a collaboration even happen? What can I do to be taken seriously???? I'm a starving artists wanting a chance, and wanting to at least get to the conversation part with an artist before they decide I'm not worth that time.

[elyss]

I write and draw and see where you're coming from. I'm not personally interested in a collab but it always bothers me when I browse them and the first comment is someone telling OP something along the lines of 'Don't expect to get an artist unless you're giving them x amount of the profit.' Even if it isn't about pay, there's always something to pick at for some reason. It feels like people are making writers out to be the whipping boy sometimes.

[saak]

been there same thing same response well until my collaby isnt getting something i am unpaid too.

[NanettesClouds]

I'm just gonna link the thing I already said in your other thread.

So - I'm not sure how familliar you are with the forums but this is the way that pretty much every colab thread tends to go here. Here are a handful of threads that might help you and your friend with finding a collaborative partner: If you dig through these threads you'll probably find other helpful threads with more advice that I didn't link. - As a community we have talked about this subject A LOT. Thats quite a workload, I think it might help you to consider that, whi…

Artists in general, deal with being asked for free art all the time, it is a very very common pet peeve. The least you can do when seeking a collaborator is to contact the artist (who you hopefully know to some capacity) directly.

It is not that we are against collaboration, it is that we are against collaboration with strangers because TBH its a very very bad idea.

as for working with younger or beginner artists - uh...I dunno it just strikes me as kinda exploitative. Especially if you make promises you cant keep like "we will share whatever% of future profits" or "This will help you get your foot in the door" or "this will make a great portfolio piece"

The best thing a beginner artist can do is work on their own stuff, or work with a close friend.

[NanettesClouds]

Opportunity is right around the corner for an artist or writer who is willing to do the work

It really isn't. I'm sorry.

[SleepingPoppy]

What can I do to be taken seriously????

Do you have any projects of your own? I know you assist your fiance with their comic, but what about your personal resume as a writer?

[rajillustration]

They should really put collabs in their own sort of sub-forum because I see this talked about like every single day. Overall, if an artist is looking for a collab, they will find your collab posts, don't worry. But, in general, most artists are also writers so they don't really need to collab. They are on tapas because they are already writing their own stuff. I would just always assume that 100% of everyone here on this particular forum also writes in their spare time.

80% of comic work is art. It's really good that you offered to help with coloring and text but like...art takes soooo long to do, that you probably won't get anyone biting. As it is, now that Tapas has a book section where you can just write novels...do you need a comic? Why not do an illustrated novel where you only need like three or four images? You're more likely to get an artist to do a collab of a few illustrations than like...hundreds of illustrations via a comic.

[saak]

just adding its still open,

hey, everyone if you are an artist and looking for a script for your comics then hello I am your official and free scriptwriter. in other words the third wheel of your comic vehicle. I will write a script by just your ideas no need to make a story before asking me to make a script. My payment will be seeing your comic and a little mention of me in it. if you are interested feel free to contact me in the inbox. and for my portfolio here is an example of how I write *no dialogues were used all the…

[Maps]

I saw a collab thread like this where the author was eaten alive. And I could tell they weren’t trying to be pushy, but were open to discussion. I haven’t even seen them on the site since.
And I think because there have already been collab threads where people discussed the pros and cons about asking for a collab, people continue to repeat them on every collab post.
But I sort of agree that poeple should be given the chance (when asking for a collab) without the whole spiel about why it’s bad to ask, about pay, etc. That can all be discussed privately with an interested creator. And maybe it would be helpful to mention that in a collab post (“if interested, please contact me privately to discuss details”). Then y’all can hash out what each of you thinks you deserve.
I do agree that it is helpful to at least post examples of your work so that people can tell whether or not they’d be interested in working with what you’ve got.

[Kittosaurus]

I saw your last collab thread with your poet friend but I don't think I've read the others. So I'll give my two cents but take them with a grain of salt.

While your heart was in the right place for your friend. It comes off as disingenuous, I think it would have been much better if she posted herself.

In regards to collaborations in general....

Collaborations on long form comics that actually go through are rare and far between. Right now the forums are over saturated with these requests and a lot of artists have a bitter taste in their mouth because of it. So even if you had the perfect pitch you still might not even get an artist, it's honestly just a bad time to be asking for collaborations in the community. If you have your heart set on doing a collaboration, doing a one shot with someone or a very short comic would be more likely to yield results.

[DokiDokiTsuna]

I had the same complaint once upon a time (and I wasn't even the one offering the collab), which led to me starting this topic:

Maybe this is the topic I should have started instead of the previous...although they are kinda two different issues. Deep breath...this is either going to go over very well or very badly. ^^' But it wouldn't be the first time I've rocked the boat in this joint. Okay. So. I've seen a lot of threads on the do's and don'ts of collaboration, especially that popular one about people offering 'exposure' or whatever. And I understand that creative work is hard work, and people deserve to be compensa…

...which didn't go very well (it didn't originally have that title, just to give you an idea of the wealth of misunderstandings that abounded)...That was one of my first instances of genuine frustration on this forum, and to be honest, I never really changed my mind, even after all that hullabaloo. =/

People have been going on and on about the collab topics since this forum was born, it looks like, and the general consensus is that they're a danger that people should ward others away from whenever possible. That isn't going to change anytime soon, so if you're looking to collab with someone, you might as well grit your teeth and get used to it. Hopefully you'll run into someone who won't get scared off, and accept or reject you on your own merits.

[ar-ninetysix]

If anything, I feel like we should have general rules for this. Limit that "here's how you do it better" explanation to only 1 user, 3 at the most if they weren't explained in-depth enough. Any other criticism of the post should be flagged as off-topic

[OttoGruenwald]

Well, from the perspective of the artists, you get a lottttt of people that are more or less fishing for free drawings. Preferably when you're looking for an artist to collaborate with, you're going to want to--

1. Offer money. Money opens all doors. Artists that don't really care about illustrating your story will care for the dollars.

2. Failing 1, and we've all been there--writers aren't founts of money--you're going to want to link to samples of your writing, preferably samples of previous collaborations, so that prospective artists know what to expect from you.

3. While not as good as 2, it also helps if you have a script ready, or even just a sample of a script. It's not a good sign for an artist to go "Yeah okay I'll work with you." Just for you to go and say "Hold on a minute, let me write the script." Not that artists won't work with you if you don't have a script ready--I've worked with an artist myself that was more than happy to collaborate on the story from the ground up, and some artists want to have a part in the writing process. The important thing is to show work and effort on your behalf.

[marvelescent]

Well I'm working now and can send a script so far, but I don't have anything completed to send. I had no problem sending what i've made to an interested artist, but it didn't seem to get that far. And I didnt feel comfortable posting my work, although I should be able to trust everyone, I dont exactly trust people not to take anything from my ideas

[marvelescent]

That's really great advice and I didn't know about that section! I'm just confused that there is a whole section for collaboration, but the people there already aren't interested. It's like, shouldn't it just be the ones interested going there? I'm down for a light one graphic novel, but I've been working my own script in comic format, and sketching out all the panels for a while now. I'd have to start over a bit

[Maps]

I think this would be a good idea.

Or even if there were some ground rules laid for what you should put in your collab thread (seeing as their is a collab category on Tapas already). Like:

1) Share an example of your art and/or writing.
2) Will this be paid or unpaid? (If paid, discuss via message with interested party)
3) Do you have a script to share with an interested party?
4) What is the genre/ what are the general themes...
5) What work are you intersted in contributing and what type of work are you look for from a partner (you know... since some people just need help with shading or detailing)

And then a note where all the other details can be discussed privately or something.

Also above is just a shitty example. But I’m saying that maybe if someone asking for a collab had a template to use, things wouldn’t come across as aggressive or demanding?

[marvelescent]

Thanks for the heads up. After being the works for my first collaboration post about my owns, I heard back to the drawing board to write and sketch to help take as much work off of the artists shoulders as possible. I just can't figure out to make that connection for making my comic come to life. Beside helping my fiance with his long term comic, raising my son, and schooling to be a lactation consultant, I try to write for my own idea but I know I won't be able to learn to draw people and my own comic in my spare time. I'm just hoping for way.

Idk how to link it, so here's my first collab post

"Hey, I've got a story, and I'm looking for an artist to work with. It is post apocalyptic and romance, so, in terms of originality, I think we've got a shot featured. Just need an artist. I'm able to do lighting and building and shading if needed be as well.

Edit: Sorry, I want sure if going into detail was a good idea in case someone takes the story, but here's a summary.

The story will likely be called bunker buddies. Its a story of 2 small 2-3 person families in 2 separate underground bunkers during an apocalyptic style weather crisis. The bunker community is set up in order to support them for many many years, though finite, and it has a communication system (like TV screens you can turn to contact each bunker for video conversation) so they can connect. It was meant to be more people but not everyone made it. Anyways, 2 young adults begin to form a romance between each other. One a female with a sick grandmother and little brother, and the other a male with a little sister. It just shows their connects, the stress of isolation, losing connection, spending years not knowing when you can get out, death, etc. Its very closed as a scene so there wouldn't be a lot of dynamic scene changes, it would be just very personal. Drama/romance/post apocalyptic.

Anyways, that's a lot of what I have so far, I'm working on the overall structure, but I know what I want to happen. It's unpaid until an income comes of, then we'd split it accordingly. Scroll format and I'm flexible about art style, but I'd want it to be more serious to body structure and all, and not loose. More "Muted" on webtoon and above, not looser like room of swords. If you're interested, just let me know. If you want to start, but only after I get a certain distance into script, let's talk about that as well.

Personal writing style I'd rather direct message about

I do assist in the writing and shading and lighting of Destiny oblivion. But since it's not my story, I can't speak to it, by here is an exactly of my light and shading work:

"

[Vada]

There are many great novels that do precisely that. It's an avenue I'd love to see more writers take. Intermittent pieces of art can be a powerful storytelling tool as well.

[marvelescent]

Yeah, after getting shredded i've dove farther into my script and began sketching as well, just to lighten the load on the artist since I'm definitely broke, and haven't done any previous writing beside in college.

[Rhonder]

Something like this would be good, agreed. I've even come full circle after a lot of these discussions and think that even going into the thread and offering unwanted advice in the first place if you're not actually considering/interested in the offer is more or less off topic. IMO it would borderline be better to just let the threads sink and then let the thread starters come back to us with the questions if they arrive at them, ala "hey guys, why didn't my collab post get any answers?"

If they want the help, we're all here with the resources ready to share with them. If not, then too bad for them, I guess?