Criticism Vs "Criticism"

[Pandastrophic]

I get the feeling that people can get actual criticism confused with comments because it's too short sometimes. Critism does NOT have to be a super long paragraph, it can be just a sentence as long as they say what they didn't like and WHY they didn't like it.

[noxfox]

I was actually pretty sensitive about it when I was younger. When I got to college I had a professor that would literally knock our work off the wall and onto the floor if he thought it wasn't any good.

Obviously, at the time I thought he was a bit of a jerk.

You've grown up and you've learned, which is great for you ...but here on Tapastic there are many creators who are still young, even younger than you were back then. Some of them are still in Highschool, or not even out of Middleschool yet, they're still struggling with the throes of puberty and building up their identities. Might be good to keep this in mind, even with young 20-something persons. Because we've reached a point in our development doesn't mean everybody gets there at the same pace!

And we don't have all the same sensitivities. Some people who have talent would be destroyed by your former teacher's behavior. So I agree with:

Another thing to remember is that a lot of artists are not taught that it's okay to not be ready for critique.

@shazzbaa's post is a really good one!

Oh, and as an aside, the difference between "I like this" and "this sucks" is: I don't need to know if someone didn't like it. 5 billion people on this earth didn't like my comic and thus didn't read it, and they don't all need to tell me so. I want to know about the people I am reaching, though! Reaching people is a big reason why I make art. :")

I agree with this and I'll quote a very smart person I know:

I find this trend of people having such an immense need to share their "opinions" depressing. It's like people have become their own gods to worship, which makes their opinions as intimately important to them as the word of god, to make a comparison. And it's not good.

Sometimes it's better to ask yourself "Do I really need to tell them this? Is it what they're asking for? Do they need it?" and often the answer might be "I need to feel important so I just want to say something without caring how it will be received, and if they're not happy with how I express myself, I'm totally going to be pissed. Everybody will be pissed, but let's do it anyway because my ruthless will to express myself without consideration nor respect of the other is more important, and I can bash all defensive reactions with more logic and hurt feels."

I get the feeling that people can get actual criticism confused with comments because it's too short sometimes. Critism does NOT have to be a super long paragraph, it can be just a sentence as long as they say what they didn't like and WHY they didn't like it.

True. People seem to confuse comments/feedback with criticism and constructive criticsm... They're different things:

• A constructive criticism is active: you point the problem and provide elements of solution. That's why it's constructive, because you bring actual materials and tools.

• Comments/negative feedback are passive: you point your problem but don't provide elements of solution. It is all up to the artist to figure how to deal with what you say.

[Kayke]

A while ago there was a thread where someone was asking for crits and I read her whole comic and then wrote up a detailed post going through the art and the story. It was generally pretty positive, but I cited some areas she needed to work on, like her panel and word bubble order being a little confusing at times. I even went as far as giving her specific page numbers and panels that were confusing.

It thought about my critique a lot before I posted it and I thought it was helpful... but I think it must not have been what she wanted to hear because she never responded and abandoned the crit thread.

I take my art really seriously and when I looked over this person's work I took it seriously as well, thinking back to all of the crits I had in art school and what info I found helpful, especially about readability and layout.

I haven't responded to a "Please Crit my Comic!" thread since, because that took me a good chunk of time and I don't want to spend more time doing something like that if there's a chance the person might not respond if my crit isn't just glowing praise.

I think both the person giving the criticism and receiving the criticism have to have the same goal: finding ways to help the artist improve their craft. If either person is not fully in that mindset, feelings are going to get hurt.

[ifluke1]

I have noticed a good idea on some web sites. There they have critique slots both harsh and
soft which anyone can add work to for criticism.

Its a way of rationalising bouquets or beatings. A silly opinion or bad critic can be challenged.

Together with the points system of 'likes' as on this board, constructive crit should always prevail.
I guess given the forum format it might not be easy thing to do.

[noxfox]

I have noticed a good idea on some web sites. There they have critique slots both harsh andsoft which anyone can add work to for criticism.

That's actually smart! I think most people would feel bad to ask for a soft critique, because of this idea that "you should be able to take any criticism" even though they're not ready for it yet and still need comforting pats on the shoulder. But if a platform gets rid of this struggle for them, by offering the possibility, then surely it must be easier.

[Terraset]

If someone is outright saying it sucks then that's not helpful. Because what about it sucks and how? I don't think there's much reason to get mad if someone does that because they're either a jackass or don't know how to critique. No point wasting time or effort on emotions for them.

If someone goes into exhaustive detail about why certain things are good or bad to them and they give someone all possible context as to why they think that way. Then the creator gets mad because there's things the critiquer didn't like.... the creator is just an emotional child and should be ignored. They clearly aren't trying to improve, they're just a dog looking for a belly scratch, no matter how much they try to rationalize it.

Why should you care about their project when they don't even care about their project?

Some people may think I'm mean but which is more mean, someone being honest and trying to help, or someone being dishonest about what they're looking for? I understand how this logic can be used by self entitled critiquers who think their way is the only way. That's just the same thing in reverse. Such critiquers should also be ignored once they start getting defensive because they're too dumb to realize they can't own your time and effort. No matter how much they insist something is right or wrong after it's been rejected. They too tend to do their fair share of rationalization.

Debating either of them is pointless except to make them shoot themselves in the foot repeatedly for the amusement and education of yourself and others in the comments section until you can write their arguments for them.

But most importantly people need to recognize that words are just words, they don't change anything in and of themselves. Creators and critiquers don't own each other. Their opinions may or may not be listened to, and that's how it is.

My partner Spudfuzz said to tell you that if you want something to critique seriously with no fear of childishness then don't be afraid to rip apart Bumbleberry Pie. We both know we have a lot to learn and we prefer to try treating critiques as our teachers.

[Wolven_Sister]

I'm all for criticism. It really does help us grow in our different creative venues. I started posting art and literature on the internet at a young age, so I learned to develop a thick skin and learn to differentiate between what were insults and what were critiques. Sometimes they're very obvious, but some not so much.

I requested a review on my first webcomic-turned-published-comic way back in the day with the original art, and original chapters so it was a mess to begin with because I wasn't very good at storytelling at the time. I knew it was a mess but I was interested in someone's honest opinion rather than "omg this is cool!" (which these comments do help with motivation, but don't help me GROW into a skilled artist/storyteller). This reviewer was harsh, they bluntly laid it out on which pages were a mess, how sloppy the art was, and how broken the grammar was. And let me tell you, it was a serious wake up call. I didn't take any offense to their review, I wanted their help and I was also very humbled they also highlighted the parts they enjoyed such as the plot, the design of the website, and the art that improved from the 2-4th chapters. It was a very much needed slap in the face, and I'm STILL grateful they ripped my comic to shreds (in a good way of course!). So, I went back to the drawing board and restarted completely: on the art, dialogue, paneling, etc...I didn't form it to fit their specific tastes but I did change it to where it was a more cohesive story. And honestly, without their review I probably would've never have gotten a publisher to pick it up.

On the other hand I have gotten insults like "this sucks" to which I ignore or depending on my mood, I'll kill them with kindness and say "I'm sorry you didnt like it, but thank you so much for reading it!"

And I have gotten comments like "The lighting is a mess" or "You need to redo this picture." I consider these half-critiques, to which I reply to them, "Thank you so much for taking the time to look at it. Do you have any tips or tricks on how I could improve?" And these replies I make to these specific kind of half-critiques I'm always sincere. Though sadly, most of the time they don't respond :/

[carloswebcomic]

Oh criticism... people ask for it, people love to give it and no one wants to really hear it.
Criticism never quite works as, by nature, people put up a shield against it, even if they ask for it.
Sometimes you just have to figure out what you're doing wrong by yourself and let others do the same.

[riverfur]

It's true that improving yourself means recognizing your flaws and trying to fix them! HOWEVER, there's a fine line between giving the harsh truth and being MEAN.
If you don't like something about the comic, tell the creator in a respectful way! If they opened themselves up to criticism, it's your right to give them criticism. HOWEVER there's a difference between asking for criticism and just allowing people to bash your comic! Make sure you know which one they mean for sure before you start dropping those truth bombs.

[danacraig78]

I have actually gotten to work on critique in a different venue: Peer reviewing other students papers in the IT discipline. There were students who got basic Network 101 facts wrong and I was going o.O. However, the professor gave me some pointers on what to do in giving critique and providing solutions to help make the paper better..and I have been working on this since then. It applies to everything.:)

I don't mind harsh critique as long as the person minds their manners. There is a difference between "I didn't like it because there were some elements that confused me or it felt out of place" (honest opinion) and "I think this belongs in the trash!"(honest opinion, but very negative. It doesn't help the person improve at all.)

I have been doing 3D art since 1999...and yes, there has been progressions of my work. There has been times when people have gone "Hey..Dana...why don't you try..."..and it made an honest difference. For me, manners is means a lot.:)

[UndefinableCreature]

I completely agree, but unfortunately that's not how the world works, so we just gotta suck it up and move on.

[WintreKitty]

haha I kind of feel obligated to leave a reply here.

Basically, my two cents are this:
Critiques are vitally important for any kind of work -even outside of the art industry. Everyone has a right to voice their opinion on something, but what determines a good critique from a bad one is the content. The more detailed and explanatory the critic is, the more likely that the one receiving the criticism will be able to use that information to improve upon their work.

In terms of a harsh critique and a nice critique, I say some people can be more butthurt than others dependent on their personalities. That being said, there is always a nice way to say a mean thing. We need to realize that not everyone has the ability to turn a mean phrase into an educational one, but we can take those critiques and create something positive from them.

As for me, I write critiques with the idea that I can state the truth as it is yet still say it in a modest and nice way. It can be a tricky thing to accomplish sometimes (and I'm sure not all of my reviews have been as positive and encouraging as they could have been), but I try. After all, people are looking for ways to improve, and you saying "oh, it looks good" or "nice art" really don't add anything to their growth.

If a person can't take criticism and work with it to create something positive, then that is a trait they need to work on. You are guaranteed to stumble across somebody on the internet who has something nasty to say about your work. The trick is using that information to help improve in the areas that you are weakest.

[sarahrebecca58]

Consider these two:

1. You work sucks and you need to stop writing.

Instead consider:

1. Your arm looks a little wobbly, and I'm not sure if that's intentional. You might consider straightening it out, unless you're going for a more abstract style.

I personally value the latter more highly. I ignore the other.

[danacraig78]

I have a friend who got on me about lighting styles for years. Not in any negative way and he admit he is the type who wants to see everything. It took awhile to find the right balance to light scenes well while getting a style in there. Unfortunately, lighting systems can be different, so it is difficult for him to say "Put this light here.."..but...he did come up with suggestion how to do night scenes to balance it. Over the years, I have improved.:)

[jjfresh]

Hah, well I like that you are using the word "criticism" in stead of "critique." Critique is the nice way of saying criticism.

I don't give criticism on here or deviantArt for several reasons, one of the main reasons being that whether a piece is good or not is largely opinion. There are technical aspects such as proportion and perspective but after that, if the picture is sound and you still dislike it, does that mean it sucks？

As much as I don't care for "softening" what I say, if there is a piece I think is shit and someone is asking for criticisms, or "critiques," I don't respond. There's nothing to gain by being an arse online. In person is different, but we are talking about online.

[sarahrebecca58]

There are style choices to consider, I like smudging and charcoal, but other people might prefer using traditional toner as well. (I feel smudged charcoal gives it that antique look.)

There are other factors like being more used to poetry than prose.

[Luie]

This sort of thing happens because nobody wants to be wrong, especially about something the put work and effort into. This is why I like to pad negativity in positivity, or follow up negativity with genuine positivity nobody else has mentioned, like their #1 strength. And then I add a bit of padding at the end to distract them from the negative part of the criticism. This is usually some final advice, like what I would do, or what they definitely shouldn't change, or some overall (positive) thoughts about the progress so far.

It's important, when you say something negative (or, in other words, "not" positive) that you choose your words carefully and make sure that the problem you mentioned is coupled with a short solution of some sorts. The negative parts should never be as vague as the positive parts. You have to point out what's not working, why it's not working, what about it is working, and what you would do to make it all work better (making it "your" solution is another way of saying "this might not work for you at all", which is a much nicer way of putting it and helps void the gap between the creator's problems and their improvement.).

A good tip is to ask yourself "If this was my work, what sort of feedback would I like to hear? How would I word this in a way where I would not be insulted by it?"

[riverfur]

It's true that you have to be ready for people to completely bash your comic without you O.King it--however the attitude of "it's not gonna change, so just deal with it I guess" is what makes rude and disrespectful people feel justified in being rude and disrespectful.

[sarahrebecca58]

It reminds me of this one critique I got once, where it was nothing more than some guy saying my science fiction story (at the time only 1 chapter in back in 2009) that said my work seems Soap Opera like.

I don't think he ever explained why it felt soap opera like.

But in either case that's why I know points out things for the writer to consider.

[UndefinableCreature]

Lol if the artist has that kind of attitude, then he/she shouldn't be on the forums asking for others opinions.