Jan 2023
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Jan 2023
Feb 2023
darthmongoose
Jan '23
kitkatxk

We do keep telling them... :sweat_02:

But in seriousness, when people do respond, there's usually a sort of... desperation. I get it, because, yeah, building an audience is hard, and it's not really fun to discover that after all the work you already put into making a novel or a comic all by yourself, that you're not done yet and need to learn marketing (ugh...marketing). They don't know how to market their work, and they don't know why it's important to really think about how they market their work, because they're writers or artists, and they've perhaps been told that if they make good writing or draw well and have original ideas, people will come...but they're not coming. It creates a sense of frustration, especially when the dashboard has a progress bar that seems to set the goal for everyone at 250 subs (I think a lot of people would be happier if that bar could at least be hidden, or wasn't on the page where they upload pages.)

One of the hardest lessons to learn in comics and novels is "you are not special. Just being good at writing or drawing isn't that special; lots of people are", even "having ideas that are different or unusual" isn't special. No matter how good a writer you are, or how good you are at drawing, you have to put your work in the right place for the sort of people who will like it, and you have to put work into making it look nicely presented according to current design trends, and make it very clear what's good about it. Nobody is such an exceptional writer that they can just drop a novel and run and people will read it. Nobody is so remarkable that they can post a novel with a cover that's just an unedited stock photo and some text thrown on there in Times New Roman or Arial font and people will somehow sense its hidden depth; people do judge books by their covers, that's what covers are for!

But inevitably, no matter how often I give the advice of "make a polished cover with one or more well-illustrated faces on it if possible", "don't hand-write your title font or use a default font that came with your computer." Or "You are not the magical exception that will make this unpopular genre popular unless you mix it with a really popular style and tropes." there's always resistance to it, and it becomes almost like a moral crusade, where giving into what I'm advising would show weakness of character or erosion of individuality or "selling out" (god, it's 2023, can the term "selling out" go in the bin? Please?). I'm really just telling them what any publisher would tell them, but hey, it's easier to just keep dropping a link and they can frame it like it's a sign of strength and individuality that they're sticking to their guns and not letting anyone change their very special and unique way of doing things. :sip:

GumshoeComix
Jan '23

I'm pretty sure promo threads are only here to keep spam away from regular normal threads
obv doesn't 100% work but with the number of promo threads, I imagine without them The art and offtopic threads etc would get spammed to hell and back.
and like @VersusVII said i think this forum is used mostly by creators.
and creators reaching other creators is difficult

I come to the forums looking to interact with people mostly but there's always only promo threads and it's a bit overwhelming sometimes.

HGohwell
Jan '23

I'm not sure if it would or not, given how things have changed in recent years. When I first came to the forums, there were a lot less promo threads and a lot more actual discussion. And when promo threads there were tended to be a lot more creative. For instance, talking about your magic system and actually discussing it. Or, the one that really shows you who's here to simply promote and who's actually reading other people's works, promo someone else's work. However, I think as webcomics have become more mainstream and more people think they can just do it, it's almost reaching saturation and the make up of the forum has changed a lot. (Of course, back then the forum had other problems like persistent hatred and complaining about popular works/creators, so it's not like it's ever going to be perfect).

Archetype_Moon
Jan '23

I have to admit that even I am getting sick of the promotion threads. All you ever see is the same people spamming their story, even I am guilty of. At this point it is getting exhausting to even post on those. On another point, I actually had no idea you could update a thread you had created. I still don't know my way around the forums all that much.

Nugtown
Jan '23
darthmongoose

Nobody is so remarkable that they can post a novel with a cover that's just an unedited stock photo and some text thrown on there in Times New Roman or Arial font and people will somehow sense its hidden depth; people do judge books by their covers, that's what covers are for!

I'm dead, I think I just love it when someone says what everyone is thinking. :joy:

I think i'll throw my hat in here and there, and on occasion an interesting premise or art will get my attention, but I don't go to those threads deliberately looking for something to read. For the most part I like to talk, or rather I think it's a lot more interesting to discuss something relevant to what you're working on, like your theme or something. It's also more likely to make me think about looking into it.

It says a lot more to me about what to expect from the kind of story you're making, beyond just a blurb or a synopsis.

powerplantanimations
Jan '23

I just go here to meet other creators and see what kinda tips I can learn. Like with marketing. I also think it sorta... makes sense... to know the ins and outs of a platform whenever you post something somewhere. I used to be a sub 4 sub person and I just stopped when I saw a person making a thread with a name like "AAAAAAHHHHHH I'M SO SICK OF THESE SUB 4 SUBS!!!". I WILL admit I still do promotions because I feel as though they work. I prefer fun game because it's cool comparing and getting to know other characters.

But to mention it's just fun talking to other creators. Seeing people grow and all that.

FliosRegular
Jan '23

I confess to promoting on promotion threads before, but I have stopped doing it now after realizing it was a terrible marketing strategy. However, I'm still stuck with my subscriber count, so I don't know what to do going forward. Other than that, I'm still an avid reader of comics and novels lol

Iris-Grimoire
Jan '23

I don't even use the promo threads myself anymore, the forum's a little too tiny for that. I like to contribute to discussion and the Newest Page thread; and to find new stuff to read, I'm generally looking at the profiles of people that I find neat and not necessarily when they promote.

KennethLopezJr921
Jan '23

I'll admit that I only use the forums for promoting myself and talking with other creators. Its not like I dont want to read other people's work. Its just that Im so busy with my own webcomic that reading other's is hard. That and I haven't gotten used to reading webcomics in general. I use the forums and the tapas discord, and I've noticed that there are a lot more creators here than there are readers. Which is probably why promotion threads arent super effective for me, now that I think about it. I think the reason I do it at this point is just out of habit :sweat_01:

ccmatta
Jan '23

which subreddits do you recomend? I used to promote on subs about BL stuff (cuz my comic is BL obviously) but idk

bulgariansumoRegular
Jan '23

I don't. @KennethLopezJr921 pretty much covered how I feel. Most forums on websites like this tend to skew more toward creators than readers.

One thing I noticed about Tapas's in particular is that there's no dedicated recommendation section. I don't remember if those ever worked out for me on Wattpad's old forum or on Royal Road, but posts in those threads are/were usually made by people who wanted to read. So at least we knew readers were there.

As futile as promoting here can be, I get more clicks when I do it. Do they often translate into likes, comments, or subscriptions? No. But the fact that people click at all when I post to "Drop your newest episode" threads is baffling to me. I don't think I've ever clicked on a series in one of those threads. I can only think of one where I wanted to.

Not gonna lie, a lot of the advice I see in regards to promotion is hard for me to wrap my head around. Promote aggressively, but if you promote too much, people will get annoyed and not want to read. Talk often about your project, but don't give too much away. (Do I just talk about the first few chapters? Or is it more of a broad strokes thing?) Promote on social media! (With what following?) Find your audience! (How...?) Do all of this and still have time to post new updates!

I'm sure these things aren't as impossible to do as I'm making them out to seem, but it's a balancing act that I don't quite have down yet. As for now, the Tapas forums (and others like it) feel easy enough to promote on, even if the returns are slim.

HGohwell
Jan '23

So like, just to cover a few of these, use your real life as a measure. Imagine if you had a friend, or even just vaguely knew someone, and every word out of their mouth was "hey read my series" and nothing else, imagine how quickly that would become annoying. Especially when these people rarely actually even tell you anything about their story, or in a quick, easy to understand way. The internet is the same. When people say promote aggressively but not too much, that's what they mean. You're an author, not a bot, be human don't just spam your link and the same paragraph description of your story. When they say talk about your project but don't give stuff away, they mean get involved in discussions about things like world building or characters using your examples (lots of people find stories they're interested in here because someone mentioned something interesting about their world/character in a discussion not in a promotion) but don't give away your massive plot twist, for example. Social media is social media, I can't help there. But creators I follow, I like to see things like character designs in progress or little extra illustrations, character sheets, and never underestimate promoting other people's work because they often have connections. While sub-4-sub is an awful plan, read and comment other people's work and a lot of smaller creators will then have a look at yours (I found lots of my reads because someone commented on my work and I went to investigate them since we clearly have at least some similar tastes).

Terrible Writing Advice has probably the best advice I've seen on promoting but even then it's half luck and half mind numbing constant slog.

MARKETING AND PROMOTION - Terrible Writing Advice
UrMom
Jan '23

Yeeeeah, I'm a bit picky since I already read a lot of comics on top of my rl stuff, so I don't normally check out promos. Once upon a time I promoted a bit myself, but most of the people on here are regulars, if they weren't interested in your work the first few times they won't be after 50 more promos. Every blue moon I'll drop a link for the newbies, although that's rare anymore since I'm lazy, and my comic is on hiatus.

As many people have said, and as I've stated in other threads, this forum is more creator drive. Most of use are working on our own projects, lacking time to read other's, so the forum is best for discussion than advertising. You'll have to use social media, reviewers, interviews and Discord if you want to get eyes on your work. I'd probably block 'Promotions' altogether if it didn't occasionally have interesting discussion threads posted under it, since yeah, it gets pretty tiring to see. Similar obnoxious vibes are promo/discussion threads with interesting topics that encourage discussion, but the OP never converses to anyone so it just turns into another generic promo thread, and dies.

bulgariansumoRegular
Jan '23
1

When you put it like that, it makes a lot more sense. I think I've been doing most of these, making sure to post a picture + an interesting snippet of text on Tapas promotion threads, talking broadly about the chapter content when I market on other sites (plus, again, pictures), participating in discussion forum threads when relevant. I could stand to read more of other people's stuff, though.

Also ransom. Ransom's probably effective.

TheLemmaLlama
Jan '23
UrMom

Guilty as charged! Though I'll continue making them, since I do get a kick out of reading about other people's take on Topic I'm Interested In even if I don't reply or have anything to say about them :stuck_out_tongue:

...

... what O_O

UrMom
Jan '23

Pff unless they're threads I haven't been interested in, I've seen you engage. I'm more talking about people who make discussion threads, sharing their perspective in the OP. People try to engage with them, but the OP ghosts right after making the thread so all talk fizzles out into short promo responses instead. I get it when the OP doesn't have anything to say to stuff, I'm not super talky myself, but it is a bit rude when someone clearly tries to open a conversation only for it to fall on deaf ears.

I admit to being a bit salty since I've had that happen a few times in the past where I wanted to talk to the OP by asking questions and such, only for them to quietly like the comment, then tap out. Sure, the rest of the community can keep the discussion open, but eh... maybe creators just suck at that sort of thing. Lol

bulgariansumoRegular
Jan '23
TheLemmaLlama

Oh, sorry. I probably should've specified that was a reference to the video @HGohwell posted. I have no means or desire to hold anyone ransom. :sweat_smile:

Ordinaryaverageguy
Jan '23
darthmongoose

Also one of the hardest lessons that life will hand us.

abigaillmartin
Jan '23
Archetype_Moon

Amen to that! I am also guilty and sick of putting my works on there. It really doesn’t work. I may have a solution that could work but I’m not sure. Maybe just maybe start a new thread with creators reaching out to five non creators like friends or friends online and recommending the works outside of Tapas. By way of Discord, social media, maybe even in IRL.

That would be a nice challenge. Recommend at least two or as much as you want by those means and recommend five comics/novels.

I don’t know if it would work like that but it’s worth a shot I guess.

I need help with improving on this idea.