Ethical Consumption

I stop following artists all the time, not even because they're big bad meanie bullies, but because they start thinking their political opinions are super interesting and decide to spam my feed with them . I'm not American, and I see enough American politics on the news all the time despite being in another country. I'm really fed up with hearing about it when all I wanted was to see some pretty pictures/ comics. As far as I'm concerned, they're the ones mixing art with the artist. Do so at your own risk.

I think this is the kind of thing you have to take on a case by case basis.

Sometimes I will still enjoy art by people who have said or done bad things. Maybe I don't think the Bad Thing was that bad, or that they've sufficiently apologized, maybe they're dead and can't hurt anyone anymore, or maybe the work just meant so much to me personally that I can't give it up.

That said personally I often err on the side of not consuming a person's art anymore if I think they've done something truly terrible. Not because I think I have some moral obligation to do so but because I'll end up thinking about how that person is a domestic abuser or a child molester or whatever. I won't be able to enjoy the work anymore if I think the creator is a truly horrible person. There's a lot of art out there and it's easy to fill my time with other things.

I make an effort not to judge people who still do like their work, everyone's threshold is different and people tend to get defensive if they think you are morally judging them.

When it comes to indie artists I'm not generally a fan of call out posts and cancelling people outright, but I'm okay with quietly unfollowing and no longer interacting with someone.

Thank God (in which I really don't believe ), there are not too many immoral things which give me real butthurt.
If I will suddenly discover that creator abuses heavily their children or beat his wife or is involved in hard bullying of outcasts, or shows any kind of explicit, serious sadism and unmotivated aggression, making others feel really heavy pain just for fun (BDSM doesn't count)... well... I will continue to consume their creations anyway (if they are fun, of course), but probably will not buy their stuff or something due to mine butthurt and disliking this person.
If I'll discover that creator is doing something "bad", but not that kind which gives me real butthurt, I usually don't mind.
If I'm finding out that creator is doing something which counts as a "bad" thing from society, but not from me... well, I'm intrigued.

MAN thats a big question

id say it depends on the material effect of your consumption

eg: the FB crew hiring johnny depp gives him social influence and lots and lots of money - big effect, bad action. millie in newcastle paying £4 to see the movie at the local cinema has little to no material effect. steve from bristol watching the movie on putlocker has zero material effect.

but thats big budget. indie gets way more complicated - its more direct, harder to pirate, and every bit of engagement has a bigger relative effect. if a tapas creator was outed as an abuser, every sub is a validation of their status on the site. every view is a bit of money in their pocket (not much, idrc abt giving nasty comics views on tapas, but i do avoid giving nasty youtubers views for the same reasons)

also, in terms of material effect the inverse is true - while a handful of ppl boycotting fantastic beasts will change squat, the same number of ppl turning from an indie creator can actually squash their career.

then theres a conversation abt 'Really Bad.' what can we forgive creators for? do indie creators get more forgiveness bc theyre still developing? indie creators are in closer contact with their audience, so is there a responsibility to talk to them before 'cancelling' them?

personally i think Really Bad is certainly any kind of abuser, id also not want to support ppl who create pedophillic content for obvious reasons. but when it comes to things like racism, transphobia, misogyny, everyones gonna have a different opinion of where the Line is due to their opinions and closeness to the situation. personally i take things on a case by case basis.

Meh. I mean I still enjoy Woody Allen movies even tho he’s a creep. Hell, I knew he was a creep long before everyone on the Internet started talking about it because my dad told me about it.

But that doesn’t change the fact his movies are funny.

Numerous times in my life I’ve heard my dad say “good movie. the guys a prick, but it’s a good movie”. So I suppose it’s easier for me to think like that. Then again my dad also refuses to support certain things by actors he likes, like their newer stuff, but still enjoys their older stuff.

For me it just depends on if the media itself is worth it. Tho I have hard lines on occasion. For example if they start getting overly sociopolitical or if the creator is blatantly an anti-shipper. If people can keep that under wraps then fine, I’ll keep reading.

My dad told me some quote once about someone who got asked about his political opinions and he refused to answer because “republicans buy tennis shoes too”. So that’s kinda how I think.

Now if they are a truly terrible person who committed crimes, etc. Depends on the media itself, but out of spite I’ll just look at it in ways that won’t officially support them.

So it’s a mixed bag for me and purely depends on the situation. Overall I think it’s up to the person to do what they feel comfortable with.

Also I’ve known people who create disturbing content who are actually sweet and nice people. So I don’t think it’s fair to judge the creator based on content or judge the content based on the creator.

Now if the creator is a prick who badmouths others or supports it, who half-asses their work, then I won’t even start watching it. Arrogance and rudeness to others is something I refuse to support. If it’s good enough I’ll watch it in a way that won’t support them, however.

Everyone has their own lines in the sand. Sometimes things rub them the wrong way so they can’t separate creator from creation, but objectively worse things the creator does or says may not impact them the same way. Does that make sense?

If they have really good work I don't tend to care even if it puts a bad taste in my mouth but every single shit tier creator i've seen produced shit tier work so I have no qualms about not caring about their product in fact I sometimes just follow it to see how bad it can get. It's like schadenfreude if you will lol

i think it all depends on the artist and their connection to their work.

Bill Cosby has created media for kids and family but because his image is such a huge part of these properties (Cosby Show, Little Bill, Fat Albert), it is sort of hard to separate him from the media.

But, then you have something like Sea Monkeys which was created by a white supremacist however the toy is still sold in stores today. I guess people figured that he's dead and the toy has none of his agenda in it, so it is OK. I personally have mixed feelings about this.

Now that I have read every comment in this thread, I have concluded that this is the consensus. Most contributers in the thread is expressing some form of it-depends-case-by-case. They are backing this up with different arguments and maybe moving the line slightly thia way or that. The consensus isn't wrong, but it isn't helpful either. It answers the original question because of how that question was worded. Until somebody comes up with a clear rule or at least a clearer rule of thumb, I cannot get behind this consensus. It's too arbitrary and too prone to creating further conflict and confusion going forward for my tastes.

Eh, I am okay with this. I am very often the objector standing outside the group and ineffectually screaming at a wall, "Everybody is wrong but me!" My voting record in my Home Owners Association confirms this with solid data. I still believe in the wisdom of groups and respect the democratic process. Just understand that I can your comments, folks, and still not be agreeing with your conclusion.

I will drop a creator's stuff if they've done or said something awful- depending on the level of "awfulness". I know everyone has different opinions or takes on a thing, but there some lines/areas/zones you just "do not go into". I dont care what kind of logic or facts you may have to prop your reasoning up- if I feel it's garbage or wrong, I'm done with you.

Their actions don't play a major role in my consumption.p

Don't see why you can't separate the work from the person. HP Lovecraft thought blacks were orc monsters, doesn't mean he wasn't the best Weird Fiction writer of his time.

I think it's definitely case by case. I've seen some people throw tantrums and "call people out" because an artist made one slightly iffy joke or one badly judged comment or even was just a bit mean. There's a difference between that and someone's an abuser or a criminal or racist ect. You have to use your judgement on how serious it really is. And I do dislike examples like Lovecraft. Living artists/pieces being made/current stuff, we can change it and say "we won't stand for this". Lovecraft (and other dead "problematic" creators, especially long dead) we're not really going to change them or get an apology from them now. and 9/10 times you go into Lovecraft's work knowing either, it was a different time or forewarned about his attitude.
Off the dead people subject thought, I've seen lots of indie authors/artists/general creators/people in fandom who I love their work, click through to their blog/twitter/whatever to find they're kind of a jerk. It puts me off, but I resolve to just not look at their personal stuff anymore. If it turns out they really are abusers ect, then I decide that I don't want to support that person anymore and hope they change and apologize and I can one day return to their work.

I have an unpopular opinion on this topic. For the longest time it would be yes, I'd stop following someone who did a shitty thing, I'd try for ethical consumption. Now days I feel it's so hard to keep up with who did what shitty thing. I'm an adult, I have more important things to worry about, when enjoying media I just want to relax. I've learnt to separate works from the creator, especially when it's something with many moving parts like a movie, TV show or video game. I'm not going to stop watching a show or movie because one actor did something shitty, there would be nothing left to watch. People even get witch hunted off social media for off colour jokes these days. Hard to try take a holier-than-thou moral high ground on a device that had slave labour involved at some point in it's creation.

Maybe I'm growing more and more cynical as I age.

I have a couple of examples that are a little bit complicated. I think it has to depend on how much the person has done (creatively) means to you.

Not comic book related, but the murder-suicide of wrestler Chris Benoit is an example of a complicated situation. At the time I was able to separate the wrestler from the man (because he was a great wrestler who was playing a character on TV). If he hadn't committed suicide, however, I'm not sure I could follow him.

There are more recent examples that are bad such as Rolph Harris and, to a lesser extent, Hulk Hogan, but I wasn't really a fan of either to begin with so it's easier for me to distance myself from them pretty much forever.

More pertinently, Frank Miller is a difficult man to like for his various controversial views, but he has written some great stories over the years.

Ultimately, I think it's got to be about the artwork first and foremost. If the artwork itself is something you find offensive then that's something you can choose to stay away from, but otherwise I don't think it's unethical to enjoy the works of people who are less than savoury.

Really interesting question to bring up, though. It's definitely food for thought and something I'm going to ponder over for a while!