Fine line between hated and loveable 🐱sshole

[Kiweevil]

What do you consider to be the difference between a hateable asshole character and a loveable asshole character? What makes a jerk endearing, and makes you want to see them improve and succeed? What makes up the difference between a Regina George and a Bojack Horseman?

[CAOMouse]

• Need a justification for their bad behavior (a sad background story, a cause,.....)
• They do things lie in grey area between bad and good
• They have potential to be good (not 100% evil, they're right in some ways)
• If they're 100% evil, they need to achieve big things that no one can ever reach

[elyss]

They should know that they're an asshole but not be cruel. You can be mean without causing lasting damage. Arthur Morgan from Red Dead Redemption 2 comes to mind. Lesser knowns like Fane in Divinity Orginal Sin 2 and more known like Lambert from the Witcher series. Sorry I only seem to have video game references

Basically, mean but not cruel. Often relatable in their likes and dislikes. Their problem is usually how they approach things they don't like, not what they don't like. Like a character who enjoys food. If it's bad, he'd be an asshole for telling someone but a prick for throwing it in the cook's face. Sure they can still throw the food in the cook's face, but there should be a higher ratio to the former behavior versus the latter.

[Ariaz]

I'd say it depends on their charisma and character growth. If you look at Arthur Pendragon from the show Merlin, yes he is a terribly rude person at times, but he grows lovable through his interactions with Merlin. A sad backstory may help, (such as with Regina from Once Upon a Time) but by the end of the day a rude person is a rude person. The growth in their interactions with others is what counts. A good character foil can speed up this process

[forg]

In my humble opinion, a loveable asshole is smoother and more socially adept than a hateable asshole. Often, hateable assholes are exaggerated in how crass they are? I think there are many of these found in webtoons (especially romance dramas where you have an antagonistic female rival).

The charisma can even cover up the heinous things the loveable asshole does (example is arguably Villanelle from Killing Eve).

Another (potential) differentiator is that the hateable asshole is at the top of some hierarchy and stomps on others weaker than them. Whereas the loveable asshole is more of a force of chaos. But there are clearly exceptions to this (Tsurumi from Golden Kamui).

[Mechanical_Hexate]

c h a r i s m a !

someone online can essentially say "I hate you" with the finesse, sass, and grace of a silver platter and be praised due to said finesse, sass, and grace

but if another person online said the same thing in the most crude, disgusting, and horribly stretched out fashion, they're gonna get the boot by their peers

[unknown_user]

I don't know the names you mentioned in the post. But I can say a couple of words about making asshole character loveable in general:

• Making them handsome, stylish, charismatic and (optionally) endowing them good sense of humor is often enough to attract reader's sympathy.
• Such character can gain even more fans by having features, which people respect independently from moral aspects (such as intelligence, strength, persistence etc).

[DokiDokiTsuna]

Charisma is a huge factor in this, but I think it's worth noting that the whole "Evil but SEXY" archetype has been used a LOT...in some genres (romance/fantasy, for instance) we're well past the point of overuse. Finding out that Satan is actually this suave, hot guy might have been interesting the first hundred times, but after a while it just gets to be...normal? At this point, an ugly Satan would be more of a surprise...

By this I mean that banking on things like charisma and cuteness to endear fans to an otherwise horrible person isn't as effective as it used to be, and will only get less effective with time. Besides, not every fan will be blinded to the character's true nature by that kind of stuff (which is subjective anyway)...if you want to ensure that this character will be lovable in execution and not just ideally, you'll probably need more than that.

I'm thinking about jerky characters that aren't necessarily good-looking, charming, or even intelligent, but somehow still managed to win my heart...and I think the secret is a sort of reciprocal interaction with the more likeable characters.

You can't have them be hated on all the time or hold the upper hand all the time; that just alienates them from the rest of the cast. You need variety...in this instance, I guess most of the time they'll be picking on cast members who don't deserve it, but occasionally they should pick on a cast member who DOES deserve it. Or even better, a cast member who usually doesn't but is currently acting out of character (I love it when an MC goes so wild that eventually even the bully character tries to set them straight, and that's when it dawns on them that they've gone too far~).

Anyway, there are more options: they could get picked on once in a while. ^^; Or you could skip the enmity dynamic altogether and just have them be useful occasionally; this is a good balancing tactic when you have a jerk that's actually part of the main cast. Show the audience WHY the other characters even associate with this person to begin with; they have to have something to offer.

Most importantly (especially in more serious, dramatic contexts) make sure you challenge your jerk character. Don't make them the problem all the time; give them problems to solve, too. Like the classic "they've fallen in love with a nice person and they won't have a chance unless they change their ways". There are so many ways to use that setup, even, outside of romance, if your goal is to make them a better person.

And even if you don't necessarily want to improve their character, you can still challenge them just by playing against their strengths: put something in their way that makes their usual jerky behavior work to their detriment. Sometimes you can add likeability points even to an annoying character just by letting them conquer themselves in that way.

[IndigoShirtProd]

I'm just gonna quote myself from another, similar topic

What Makes A Mean Character Enjoyable?

I think the variables that make a mean or villain-leaning character likable come down to comedy, camaraderie, circumstances, self-consciousness, competence and consequences.

Comedy: If their personality can be played for laughs or the character in itself is funny, the audience is more likely to like them.

Camaraderie: If the interactions that the character has with others is comedic or heart-warming in spite of their bad personality, the audience is more likely to like them.

Circumstances: If the character came from a harsh upbringing or are in a situation that requires toughness or underhandedness to survive, the audience is more likely to give them sympathy.

Self-consciousness: If the character can recognize their bad personality and work to better themselves in some way, the audience is more likely to like them

Competence: If a character is witty or intelligent and can outsmart other characters, the audience is more likely to like them.

Consequences: If their actions mean something in the story or result in a shift in the status quo, the audience is more likely to give them sympathy.

Liking mean characters without any of the previously listed tropes is possible, but less likely. The first character I think of when it comes to this trope is Cartman from South Park. Cartman's antics are troublesome to say the least, but they tend to be funny and show off his competence. And he usually gets some form of earned, unfortunate consequences.

[vothnthorvaldson]

Well, to me, being an asshole makes someone unlovable by definition.

But what we have to define is, what does qualify as being an asshole.

People who are brutaly honest are not assholes in my opinion (unless they repeatedly refuse to tone down when they see they are hurting people); also, people who are rude due to difficulties to understand social norms, are not assholes either. So all these ones can be rude and lovable.

[DiegoPalacios]

Gonna quote myself with an example i did of Bakugou from My Hero Academia on a similar topic:

The reasons the character is enjoyable despite being a jerk:

What Makes A Mean Character Enjoyable?

1-He is freaking hillarious

His temper and jerk behavior is often played for laughs,that makes the character more entertaining, and therefore, more likable.

2-Deep down he cares and has some genuinely heroic qualities.

He genuinely wants to be a hero and his determination to do it is admirable. Many times he has to shallow his pride to do the right thing. Of course, in real life, we don`t see the mind of people, so we dont see the hidden depths of others unless we take the time to know them better.

3-The consequences of him being an asshole are played realistically:

There is a reason he has almost no friends and don`t get along with others. And while he manages to achieve many things due to his skill, his brashness gets in the way to fulfill his potential as a hero. Many pros dont want to work with him and he struggles when it comes to teamwork.

[indagold]

I think if their goals and motivation can be relatable or interesting, are given moments to humanize them or their charisma is endearing even if they're literally a terrible human being... I think thats what makes a loveable asshole. That you can latch onto a person's quirks without fully supporting their morals.

I think a hateable asshole is either someone irredeemable by society's morals (like a sexual predator which is like the default for worst of the worst...I usually think of like Jojo's villains) or just lacks the depth or possibility to be redeemed, lacks the charisma.

[NickRowler]

Humanity and empathy.

If the asshole has the ability to show they care about something outside themselves. Like them caring about their friends and family.

I think characters become hateful assholes when they become sociopaths.

HOWEVER,
I think making an asshole comical or campy can boost their likability even if they lack humanity. Like them being an asshole sort of feeds into the reason they comically fail. Or how some villains are so over the top that you end up loving them in the end.

[TapasCommunityTeam]

[TapasCommunityTeam]