I think the main issue is that you ask these long questions that sound like you are just rambling.
All your questions sound like this…
How do I write a character who has to be more than just the one that has a long story and they have to do something that doesn’t really need to?
Maybe ask less questions and shorter ones.
Tread Title: Tips for writing long stories
I am interested in writing a longer story but I am a bit overwhelmed. Does anyone have any tips?
Sorry, the problem is basically that I always describe things poorly.
Like when I made it sound like two complete strangers from my story were a couple. Or when I forgot to even explain what the stories conflict was about when asking how to modify the conflict. I explain things poorly and then I explain it again but also poorly and while accidentally giving off the sense that the person trying to help was the one in the wrong,
I didn’t realize it sounded like I thought of it like that. I was operating under the assumption that a troll would not actually make anything, which now that I think about it is not that true. Can the existence of my comic ever be proof against the idea that I was trolling people?
I actually asked this for a dumb reason, that being that I did this sort of experimentation before, but it was a long dumb process when I did, and assumed that somehow this process could take 7 years without someone helping, even though that was completely nonsensical.
So… is it acceptable for one of these flat characters to be a flat femme gay kid who is just sort of there, gay, and feminine? He’s the main reason I wanted to make the characters feel different and stuff. Is it possible to make this character feel more complicated? Like give off the sense that there is a complex inner life going on that we just aren’t seeing because it’s a short story?
Are these like bad questions?
I think clearly the specificity matters to you, and there may be a problem in the communication side of things.
A lot of the time, the threads are going a bit like:
You: "Is it okay to sit on a chair in this room?"
Person: "Yes, you can sit on a chair."
You: "Okay, but what if it's a green chair?"
Person: "Yes, I said you can sit on a chair, that includes green ones."
You: "Ah wait, sorry, I mis-spoke. I meant blue. Can I sit on blue chairs?"
Person: "Rrgh! I said you can sit on the chairs! Are you trolling me or something!?"
It's like that, but with storytelling or drawing. And it's quite possible that to you, it's reasonable to feel anxious about the specifics... but to other people, it feels like you're not putting thought into the general applicability of their broader advice. You ask if it's okay to have very simple characters in a short comic, and I say, yes, that's fine, then you ask "but is it okay if the character is an effeminate gay character?" because you're worried about being seen depicting a stereotype... but on my end, that's an uncomfortable question that feels like you're putting the responsibility for your decision to potentially do something problematic on me. It's also a very different question, because it's less about characters being simple and more about depicting cultural stereotypes.
If your decision hinges on "am I worried this will be problematic?" you really have limited choices:
And if your follow-up question is "but what if the plot needs that character to be an effeminate gay man?" Then the choice simply becomes "should I tell this story, or change the story?" basically the same choice.
And no matter how many times you ask... those are the two options, and different people will tell you, often emphatically, to pick a different one. There's no gay council who can give you official permission to depict an effeminate gay man with assurance nobody will be offended. Somebody might be offended... but that's always the risk with... basically just making art. The specifics of the question can't really change it.
I don't know if this will help, but in terms of questions I have a lot of similar problems, I'm very sensitive but I need feedback to improve so I try to get feedback in a way that doesn't hurt me nor risk hurting the kind people that do come and give me feedback. I also tend to describe stuff badly and ramble. Despite that I feel like my question thread was really helpful to me and a lot of really nice people came to help me here : https://forums.tapas.io/t/how-do-i-manage-a-shifting-artstyle/75257
I'm not saying it's the best way to do it, but it might give you some leads.
I gave a lot of thought to trying to make the question clear even if explaining the context and stuff takes a while. I also tried to only ask questions other people's opinions would give me some insight on. I did want to ask about plot stuff and how to write x thing or how to dose subtlety and metaphor, but that stuff is not something other people can really judge until it's properly done in the comic and then I can ask for impressions and try and improve for the next pages.
I also framed the questions asking what other people would do in my place. "What would you do if you had my problem?" rather than "How do I do this?". It's small but it prompts people to respond with "I would do this" rather than "you should do this" and the former makes it easier for me to take the useful stuff from the answer without feeling demand rejection. (But that's just a little trick I play on myself to make sure I can properly consider the help people are giving me).
Finally I didn't respond straight away. I took the time to read and reread the answers, digested them and tested a few of the practical suggestions out to see how they look before coming back and answering. Rereading the messages helped me understand some of the things that I had misunderstood the first time + forced me to properly think and consider things even some of the commenters didn't necessarily mean.
A lot of questions should be to help jumpstart your critical thinking about your own work by giving you insight into other people's perspectives or how they get out of a problem you might be facing that might work for you, not to give you a direct answer.
I hope this helps!
Edit: I'm reading the answers after me and I'm seeing another problem: you need to think about your questions more before you ask them. You're not asking the actual question you want an answer to so you're chain-asking things that aren't the same.
Example : you asked if it was ok if characters were simple in a short story.
You did not think beforehand what the answer "yes" or "no" would bring as problems. The real question you were probably asking was:
"I have an effeminate gay character in my short story. Short stories usually have simpler characters. Is there a way that I can write a simple character like that without it seeming like a stereotype?"
I still have qualms with this question because the answer is "yes but you really have to do a lot of work to be around people like that, see their humanity, understand them beyond the surface level, and then breathe that understanding into your character while giving the audience less detail to keep the story short."
This is not a question we can give you a quick fix to.
Sorry. I just sort of assumed that since you answered that one question I could switch to a different one. I’d accepted that the characters were going to be one-dimensional now, and now had a different question.
I should have explained that better. Or maybe i’m wrong and this isn’t the problem at all.
Also I kind of was always going to do the second thing, I just just didn’t clarify because i’m horrible at communicating basic concepts. My question was more about how to handle doing this exact thing without it coming off as though i’m writing something generic or stereotypical.
Thanks. This helps a lot. I kind of assumed “what would you do in my place” was a lazy question, but now i’m going to try to use it more often.
To the question of "is it okay if the character is an effeminate gay character?" You already got a response from several people in the thread you originally asked the question.
A whole conversation was done about it...
This is clearly an example of what we meant by "it seems you don't pay attention to people's advice".
Like @darthmongoose said, your questions each time are way more specific but somehow still the same.
At this point it doesn't seem like you are asking for advice.... Instead it looks like you want others to write the story for you.
What you need is a teacher. We are not teachers!!!
We are authors who happily help but we can't go above general advice. We all have things to do and our own stories to write.
We can answer all your questions, but at this point I feel it is necessary you offer us money in exchange for our time. That is the first time I ever had to say that.... it makes me feel extremely sad.
Sorry. The question I asked was actually the wrong one honestly. What I wanted to know was how to make a one-dimensional main character not come off as a lazy stereotype. I should have said that instead, it would have been much more to the point and much easier to answer. But instead, I made it so specific that it became a completely different question, one I had already asked beforehand.
Homeslice, what people think of your work is completely out of your control. The only thing you can do is put your best foot forward and hope for the best. Quit worrying so much and asking nicvhe and unanswerable questions.
The answer is still the same. You already got a response in the previous thread I mentioned.
Changing the way you formulate the question does NOT make it unique and new. You are still making the same question with different words.
I think you just need to do your best to write the character in a way that you think makes sense/isn’t just the stereotype. How does that look to YOU?
I think there would be less frustration directed at you if it didn’t feel like these were questions you could actually answer for yourself. And if you make mistakes that’s actually the best way to learn. That’s why people so often tell you “just go make things”. There’s a lot of things you only learn by doing.
When did I ask this question before? What would make it a new question then? Because i’m trying to formulate a different thought.
What if the question was instead “my stories main character is basically wednesday adams, how do I make her feel like her own individual character?”, or a better version of that question.
Because that’s kind of what I’m getting at now.
No..... Your question is still the same just different words.....
And most of your questions are asking us to do your job for you.
For example:
We CAN'T control your memory. You can't expect us to remember each question you make for you. If you really have memory problems you should contact a Doctor aka a proffesional. We can't help you in any way to solve this problem. We don't have the right qualifications for this.
Most of your questions are asking us to solve other problems for you. We are either not qualified to answer or we can't write certain things for you. You are the AUTHOR of the comic you are making.
P.S. I seriously hope you don't need a doctor but since I had already mentioned what to do in case you had bad memory I think it might be worth seeing a specialist. Hopefully, they will tell you that your memory is fine.
See, I don’t see why that isn’t a question you can answer for yourself. You’ve recognized the problem- too much like Wednesday Adams- now you brainstorm qualities that make her different, or changes you can make. You don’t need people to make random suggestions if not-Wednesday character traits. Just think about it. Problem solve.
I actually kind of found an answer but i’m not sure about it. Basically i’m considering his origin being that he was a genetically engineered GBF meant to be sold off to narcissists who want their friends to be quirky side characters in their life.
If I go with this story, he will probably start out with a very artificial persona that gradually gives way to the development of a real personality. Like M3gan but a human who does not murder people.
This might be a cool idea but might also be extremely stupid/problematic. I’m not sure which, and i’m pretty sure it will depend on execution. I might potentially replace the concept with something similar that results in something else.
So… I guess I was just being dumb. I already had a potential angle for this character, and I was just ignoring it.
I don’t know what this was all even about. I guess I just blindly accepted the idea that the character would be one-dimensional even though that was never actually something I was bound to no matter who said I was.
Sorry for wasting everyone’s time @darthmongoose @Katzalcoatl
This is leech behavior. You cannot "ask" your way into acquiring the skills and effort you want so badly and repeatedly asking questions won't suddenly make your thing spontaneously appear. The only thing this achieves is sapping the time, energy and literal life out of the poor people who keep taking your bait.
