How Do You Edit?

[orose]

Perusing the novels here makes me think about how we should be editing for quality & wondering what makes our work 'quality' in the first place.

How do you edit? What are you looking for when you re-read your writing before posting?

Here's what I do:

• Spellcheck & Grammar Check (I use LibreOffice and a grammar checker extension)

• I get rid of -ly words. For example, 'really', 'identically', 'seriously', etc. I don't remember where I read this, probably on Writer's Digest somewhere, but -ly words were pointed out as often unnecessary, clutter words. Like, 'She was seriously upset.' should be 'She was upset.' It's okay to use the -ly words once in a while, but overuse is a problem. Speaking of...

• I check for words/phrases that have been used more than once within a certain number of pages. I remove/change them. This is the 'kill your darlings' method. Your 'darlings' are the words & phrases you use over & over again. Are all the mountains majestic? Every time you describe them? Is everything lovely, always? Is the sky slate gray or bright blue every time your character notices the weather?

• I listen to the chapter using NaturalReader free version --- This is something I don't always do, but I should. I've got to get back in the habit. It's helpful to HEAR errors. Sometimes, you've read the words a thousand times & still miss issues because you see what you expect to see.

To me, quality writing doesn't have to be free from all errors, but I do believe authors should be putting their best foot forward. Communicating the ideas of a story is hard enough without distracting the reader through poor editing

I'm the kind of person who does get distracted by repeated words & phrases; it makes it hard for me to pay attention to the story line when I notice misspelled/misused words, too. I drop & look for something else to read when it happens more than once in the first chapter.

Good news is, not everyone is like me . A lot of people can overlook missteps in editing & just enjoy the story as it's presented.

As a writer, I do understand the drive to post content you're excited about; I also know that we can edit and edit and edit, and re-read, re-read, re-read ourselves to death, fearful of being judged for 'bad' writing. I don't think we should be afraid to go ahead and post, but we should also do our very best to come across as professional, so people know we take our craft seriously (-ly).

Unless you don't, which is okay, too.

(As I re-read and edit this post...rofl)

[joannekwan]

I usually spell-check as I write.
But my first serious round of edits usually go to grammar and punctuation (commas in particular, finicky little bastards) as well as a check for repeated words and phrases. I cannot live without ctrl + f.

Next I look at pronoun, name, and epithet use, since I want a balance of the character name, she/he/they, and epithets within a paragraph. Gets really repetitive if you're using the character's name every time they do something or are referred to. And pronouns can get confusing if there are multiple characters in a scene that share the same ones.

Then I look at sentence construction and purpose. I try to avoid every sentence being 'They did this. Then they reacted' etc. with the subject always at the beginning when performing an action. I also try to have a balance between action sentences and commentary sentences each page. Like I want the characters to keep moving the plot along, but with descriptors and commentary interspersed throughout.

Then I give the chunk of a chapter a full read-through before queueing it up on Tap.
And another read before the episode goes live.

And I still read through them again even after it's live. xD

[nostalgicroxas]

I rebuild my map.

It's something I learned in college. When you write, or read, something you're actively making a Map of it. Your brain knows that Harry says something witty that you liked to Ron somewhere in the first fourth of the book, and can narrow it down based on something you may not have actively realized you noticed, ie: page number, first sentence on the page, the size of paragraphs, or a stain on the page. This same idea carries through with digital writings. The trick is to rebuild your map so you notice new things.

Read HP as a kid on a hard cover? Grab a paperback from the library and you'll be reading a new map. You'll remember the story, but the pacing and feel of it will be different. Then read it as an eBook, or one of those children's books that are like 12" tall. Each iteration is a new map.

So how do you destroy your map if your work is digital? Several ways. Read it on whatever site you've uploaded it on to, adjusting the width of the window, since that'll change paragraph sizing to a degree. Convert the "body" font size to something you don't write in (I write in 11, so adjust up to 13 or 14) to change spacing and save it as a pdf and read it. Another method, that kills trees, is print it out (I can print out for free at the library to a certain extent), so I'll go back through and re-read the last 25 pages or so and do small edits.

Hard edits with fresh eyes require my brain to be more "on" in an editing mode. This is when I go through and check words. If a paragraph has the same word of "dark" two or more times, I see if another word will work. For this method, I actually purchase a book form of my book and read through the physical version. This method I do two things - I circle bits that say "rewrite" or "fix", kill typos, murder weird stuff like a sentence that should be 3 not 1, and add more as needed. One thing I do for certain is I circle the page number of the book so I can flip through and edit by navigating the pages It's super handy, you've no idea. I'll have to grab a picture of my hard edits, but sometimes pages just look like murder happened since there's so many marks, and others are not touched. I do this at least three times with three different copies of my book (post a few digital read-throughs of course) and then I finally just have to say "this was my writing back then, and it functions, no need to re-write it". And shelf it as a "final" version.

While actively writing I've learned to look for the same tricks of using the same word too much and some other stuff I do without noticing. I'll use "though" a lot, and start sentences with a characters name ... at each paragraph.
Crow lsdfhsflkhs blah blah.
next paragraph: Crow blksjdlkf blah blah....
BAAAAAD for the eye. So I rework one.

I don't do this kind of work often. The best way to edit, is to forget it and let the actual thing you wrote be fresh to your brain. You know you wrote it, and you know the story, but how the words went together - when it's fresh in your mind- you miss so many things.
I actually make a point of not updating chapters online, cause I like seeing the "crappier" versions hahah. I also have multiple save files of the older versions. That means I have to remember which is the one with the edits done hahaha

[orose]

That's interesting & very in depth! I do like to re-read old books, though not usually in a whole other format! Even just re-reading something like Harry Potter, in it's 'original form', can bring to light so many little details that you missed before... I was always the kid who noticed misspellings or off spacing in published books; I've got marked up novels pointing out errors in punctuation & such (Also, edited out the use of the word 'books', substituted with 'novels', lol.) I imagine going at it in whole other format would be a big shake-up.

Something I didn't think of before, because I haven't done it in a long time, is changing the font color along with the background color in the document. Going from the usual black font on white background, to white font on black background, for example. Like you said, even small changes can turn the brain "on" when you want to get serious about finding/fixing.

[GesuGesu]

I do backwards design and build the story from the ending. So if I'm writing somethig like a side story, background info flashback, or whatnot, if it doesn't aid to flesh out the story, I try to cut it. I also use the endgame as a reasoning mechanism for deciding character powers, development, and random enemies that should aid in character growth.

I care less about grammar and more about the content and delivery of content.

[yansusu]

I'm probably not editing as much as I should for posting online. I merely go through the chapter once, looking for typos, fixing some awkward sounding sentences, exchanging some words, then put the thing through Grammarly and put it online.
This is simply a matter of time. I'm writing 3-4k a day and just can't go through everything several times before posting so I only try to ensure that the quality is "decent enough". If some typos slip through or there are still lots of adverbs around I don't mind too much.

I'm doing a big rewrite and/or another major edit (or more depending on the story) before the publication as ebook/paperback where I'll look out for everything else.
If the rewrite is major (like with my current main series) I might put the new version up online too. There will still be lots of mistakes in there probably since I'm once again editing for an online version then but the story will be better Afterward, I do yet another edit (or another rewrite - that depends on the story, you get it ) for the publication as ebook/paperback.

After the final publication, I stop looking at the story altogether. There will definitely still be typos in there but a book will never be free of those. Beating myself up every time when I find one wouldn't help with that. I only go to change the manuscript if a reader points something out and I'll only update the files for the shop(s) if it's something major (I did have the wrong name for one of my main characters in one book, whoops ... ).

[therealbereth]

So how do you destroy your map if your work is digital? Several ways. Read it on whatever site you've uploaded it on to, adjusting the width of the window, since that'll change paragraph sizing to a degree. Convert the "body" font size to something you don't write in (I write in 11, so adjust up to 13 or 14) to change spacing and save it as a pdf and read it. Another method, that kills trees, is print it out (I can print out for free at the library to a certain extent), so I'll go back through and re-read the last 25 pages or so and do small edits.

That's a clever way to see your own mistakes! It also works to just... export the work as a pdf, I have found. xD I write in Ulysses, so the text itself is in Markdown only, the formatting comes when I export. And voilà, I see all the little things that I've missed before that. Commas, little grammar stuff etc. – it helps with the tedious details.

Thing is, I feel like I've been writing and editing for so long now that I kinda don't think about it too much anymore. So if you were to point a gun at my head and have me explain the ins and outs of my process, I'd probably die.

Grammar and all the little things like avoiding adverbs (they kill every text, believe me and @orose), choosing powerful verbs rather than describing every detail with too much unnecessary words... all those things have become an automated process when I write already. So I actually don't have to edit too much when it comes to these tedious things.

What I do look out for is voice. Character voice, specifically, as it coincides with my narrative voice. I also keep track of how I set my paragraphs, how I end my sentences, what melody the text has etc. – nothing I do is a coincidence. So every time someone points out a "mistake", I'm like... no. No friend, this is entirely on purpose. xD (Except commas or prepositions. Prepositions are my enemies, I confuse them in both my languages by now.)

I just love to play around with the text. That's my editing process right there. I play around until the text's melody can take a reader by the hand and leads them along what happens. Voice, language, dialogs: these things need to just... sound right. I'm lucky that I kinda hear the text while I read it, so I don't have to read it out loud. But that's something I'd recommend for anyone who struggles with making their text sound natural. Read it aloud, especially the dialog, and see if you think that people actually talk or think like that. It makes for your own melody before you know it.

I'm the kind of person who does get distracted by repeated words & phrases; it makes it hard for me to pay attention to the story line when I notice misspelled/misused words, too. I drop & look for something else to read when it happens more than once in the first chapter.

I feel you. xD I can forgive it more in indie writing because I know that we're all just doing our best here. But in books that are published through some big industry fish? Nah. I'm out the moment I see too many adverbs and especially if all characters sound the same. That's what editors are for, after all, and if they fail to support an author in the story they want to tell, the book lands in the trash.

[grotesqueice]

Relatable.

But I learned that once you are writing for your story, it's generally okay to write all the ideas down even if its construction is incorrect. After that, re-read the whole thing and proceed with the checking of grammar and spelling.

In my case, I do ask the help of my acquaintance for quality checking and another one as my self proclaimed editor. Having someone else read it as well gives me room for improvement and they also offer various ideas too.

I really appreciate your advice when it comes to checking and usage of redundant words and/or phrases. I'd go ahead and do some of those techniques too. Thank you for sharing!

[joannekwan]

How many adverbs is too many in a paragraph of say 120 words then?

[winterpenwell]

For me it depends. I would be much more vicious with the editing if the project was something I intended to offer to an agent, for example. As I’m publishing it online, I intentionally include more adverbs and even let repetition (which in general I loathe) slide to save time.

[Pan]

I love to talk about my editing process, so strap in lmao

I actually do two rounds of grammar/spelling check. Very first when I finish a chapter, I plug the text in to Grammarly to see if there are any obvious errors I've missed. Next, as a few people have mentioned, I'll do a search function to find and eliminate adverbs (specifically -ly words).

Next I change or delete weak words. (really, seems, very, a little, pretty, almost, etc.) I end up using so many of these and they really clunk up my writing. Using alternatives without making them adjectives is challenging but it is so much less amateur.

After that it's time to get rid of drumroll DIALOGUE TAGS! I write in way too many and find I have to edit them out for ease of reading. If it's obvious who is speaking, I delete the tag.

Then I do a general read-through and change awkward-sounding sentences, space my paragraphs apart, take all my "tell" and change it to "show", fix last-minute spelling/punctuation/grammar mistakes, re-write all my passive sentences into active voice, and I'm golden.

Ready for posting! I used to use this tool called editminion, but the site's been down for over a month now and I'm really sad TT^TT I don't think it's going back up lol.

[nostalgicroxas]

! I used to use this tool called editminion, but the site's been down for over a month now and I'm really sad TT^TT I don't think it's going back up lol.

This sounds like a really neat site... Like I wanna be an editor minion on that site HAHAHA
I recall Mibba used to be set up so you'd read/comment/feedback to get points and you couldn't post without enough points. The site itself is a graveyard now - surprised it's even still up.

I decided to grab a small section to show you how I write now (this was a few weeks ago I think now... Not entirely sure off the top of my head. recent ish. Hasn't gone through my hard edits.)

Summary

As Will awoke the next morning to cool air brushing against his cheeks, he pulled the blanket over his head and snuggled father down into the warmth his body had generated.

Wait. Will opened his eyes, yanked back and blankets and sat up suddenly.

Tino, who'd been sitting with his chin in his palm staring blank-eyed out the window across from him, immediately sat upright.

He's…not here? Will frowned as his eyes scanned the room. The morning light illuminated the room as it came in from the window. Will felt his face contort in frustration. But I … I could've sworn he was.

Tino cleared his throat before speaking. “G'morning Will.” He tilted his head to the side while he waited for Will to slowly look over to him. “It's still early in the morning. Thankfully, we received another telegram that says the emissary is stuck and won't be arriving until tomorrow. So we have some time to prepare.”

And then this section is from another story that was written several years ago. (2014, holy crap)

Summary

Without a word to her, Ricardo stepped into the warm kitchen, almost a wall of sudden comfort and heat hitting him. He stopped, standing between the door and the island, stunned by what he was listening to. The boy that had been asleep in the pile of blankets earlier was sitting on a chair that was facing out to the window and he was singing in a soothing and relaxing voice. It wasn't like a siren to lull you closer, nor was it a lullaby to send you off to sleep. Instead it was just a nonsensical series of vowels that brought with them a feeling of calm serene peace.

Ricardo let out a breath he didn't know he had been holding, his sapphire eyes with surprise. I've never heard a voice so beautiful to listen to before. “Whoa,” he whispered.

The singing stopped suddenly, as the boy turned around to look at Ricardo. That soft whisper had surprised him. A tuft of blond-golden hair came forth from the middle of his bangs and refused to blend in with his rosewood-brown hair. His left eye was a light blue, and his right was a light green shade. He was dressed in a rich green shirt with loose sleeves that were tied with pink ribbon to create ruffles at the wrist; hanging longer in the back than in the front, and it was closed with an invisible zipper all the way up to the stiff collar around his neck. The tops of his shoulders were exposed by intentionally open holes, showing his pale skin.

[therealbereth]

The thing is, adverbs per se are not the devil. They can work when the voice of your character—or your narrator if they're not the same—just love sprinkling them in.

The problem with them is that they can weaken the sentence's message when they're used too much or without any real purpose. Take an easy example: "he ran/walked quickly to the window". Okay, so first we know that the character moves, and ONLY THEN do we learn HOW. In this case, it would be better to really envision what the character is doing, how exactly, and then search for the ideal verb. Maybe they're enraged? Anxious? A good verb can tell us that little detail without needing to rely on adverbs. For example: "he stormed to the window"—whoops, seems mad/hasty. Or: "he rushed to the window"—ah, there's some anxiety in there, cool cool cool.

You see the difference, right?

It's not always necessary. Sometimes I love to use some adverbs, myself, because my (current) narrator is a grandstanding nerd anyway, and so he would use them in the right circumstances, as well. But for the writing to leave an impression, it's always better to look for strong verbs, or rather define a noun with an adjective and what it's doing (or what's done to it, though the passive voice is another thing to be used sparingly). For me, keeping adverbs out as much as possible is just about having more control over the text and its melody.

[yansusu]

"he ran/walked quickly to the window"

On that note (just to add a thought - I agree with everything you wrote), even if you have this type of verb which isn't as descriptive as your other examples, when the verb in question is 'ran', then the adverb would be superfluous since you can't run slowly (in normal circumstances, a character probably could in a show of mock slow-mo run to the window *ponders*). So often times, the adverbs just aren't needed.
Walking is something that could be done both slowly or quickly but there might be other clues in the context for that (like with the slow-mo).

[nostalgicroxas]

when the verb in question is 'ran', then the adverb would be superfluous since you can't run slowly

I'm not sure. Depends on the amount of effort you're putting in. Sprinting requires different effort than running, and running has at least two styles: get away from danger top speed, and regular running speed. The top speed is usually not used when regular running since it's a sudden burn of calories, and our bodies aren't designed to be at top speed for long periods of time. We're built for sprinting and adjusting to standard running (swapping between the two) and maintaining that combination for a while (iirc swapping from running to jog or speed-walking is actually harder on the body). I'd have to look up that movie on yt where Game Theory tries to see if Sonic's legs can break under his speeds One note was about knees breaking....

On a writing note, I was taught in college about getting rid of "dead" words. "He ran quickly" would result in "quickly" being axed out and instead being adjusted to something like "He ran as fast as his legs could carry him". Takes more space, and still could be adjusted down to "He ran quickly". (Ah english, how we hate you) I recall the idea being the job is to get to the core of the idea: "He ran" to where or why? If you want to show anxiety or panic, it should take place before the "ran".

[yansusu]

I'd say that's where the context info comes in. To me "running" will always be on the quick side of things. How quick ... that's another question altogether. Anyway, I'd still say that in normal circumstances people wouldn't run slow. You'd need to flesh that out with contextual clues if you want me to imagine anything other than that. So just from the sentence "He ran to the window." I would always imagine someone running fast regardless of "quickly" being there or not. That's what I meant.

While we're at context clues ... It's kinda funny because I myself am what I'd call a "slow runner" aka everyone else is normally much faster than me So if not only "he" is running to the window but everyone else is too and he arrives last and all of that would be given in surrounding sentences, then I'd imagine "him" running "slow" in comparison to the others. I think this is on a scale though because I still wouldn't imagine him being slow, just slower. If that makes any sense

Edit:

I'm not sure. Depends on the amount of effort you're putting in.

I think I only just got that you actually wanted to say that "quickly" doesn't have to be superfluous while I was only thinking about the slow part. In regard to that: If you really feel the need to make the speed of the running higher on the scale, then I'd expect the use of "sprint" or some alternative just like you did I wouldn't go with "run quickly" even in that case.

[therealbereth]

when the verb in question is 'ran', then the adverb would be superfluous since you can't run slowly (in normal circumstances, a character probably could in a show of mock slow-mo run to the window ponders). So often times, the adverbs just aren't needed

Yes, this! I've seen sooo many traditionally published books where this is done, and it makes me furious.

Depends on the amount of effort you're putting in.

Well, then you would still have the fact that running is always some shade of "fast" or "quickly". When we're talking context, then we would need to evaluate the whole paragraph, of course. Maybe someone makes a point in "running slowly", for some comedic effect, but then you would either definitely need the adverb or you could find a way to describe it so that a reader would see the ridiculous motion.

[nostalgicroxas]

find a way to describe it so that a reader would see the ridiculous motion.

He ran like warm honey falling off a spoon.

/mic drop

On my earlier note for clarification about "dead" phrasing:
He ran quickly. -> He ran. -> He quicky ran...
The last option leaves room for more sentence structure as opposed to the first option. The middle option is a, I forget the name of it, but it's a kind of simple sentence that causes anxiety, stress, and "heat of the moment" "gunshots fired" kind of reading pace for the reader. So depending on your writing goal (contextual), you'd ideally use #2 or #3, but not #1.
That said I'm about 90% sure I write like #1 a lot and my mom and teachers say my sentences are "backwards".

[therealbereth]

Yeah, placing adverbs within a sentence can be a hassle when you need them, after all. xD I often catch myself debating one single sentence for minutes on end because something just isn't right. xD

But yeah, basically, like you said: the text needs to follow your aim. Knowing 100% what you want to say—and what you DON'T want to say, leaving room for interpretations by the readers—helps so much when it comes to juggling words and their function.

Aaah... semantics. I better stop here, or I'll start nerding out.