How do you tone yourself down?

[ble]

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[LCT_m_a_d]

Duchamp really made a mess out of his art career lol

[indagold]

Depends with my friends, if i'm bored i'll just say its nice, feeling more energetic might critique it or just roast it cause they don't care anyway, they roast my art too.

Strangers I just assume they're spammers? Every person who did that with me just wants attention and views and its annoying. They never seem genuine.

[Kat]

I'm not a huge fan of false praise, but I have learned that there's something praiseworthy in most work, even if it's just "I can see you're passionate about this!" A couple things that help me:

-Most people are not stagnant. A "crappy" artist today may end up completely surpassing you and leaving you in the dust. Have you ever seen the old sketches from really skilled artists? Often they're pretty hideous. Obviously they didn't stay there, so remember people grow and consider their potential.

-People can only take so much criticism at a time. It can be tempting to rip a piece apart with every single thing that's wrong, but that's not only demoralizing for most people, but too much for them to even process all at once. I try to focus on just a couple of aspects that need the most improvement, and say "Start here- work on this. Then come back and we'll talk about something else you can work on."

[qwerty]

Generally I try to just pick one or two specific issues that I think are the most important and mention those. Even if there are a thousand other issues, they'll figure the rest out on their own over time. You don't have to be comprehensive in order to be helpful, and anyway they're more likely to actually apply the advice if it's manageable.

Also if there's anything good (even something small) I'll often mention it too. Knowing what you did right is as important as knowing what you did wrong. And encouragement can matter just as much as practical advice

[inkythoughts]

I think I read this even here in a forum thread where a writing teacher didn't say "this is bad" but asked "how can we fix this?" and I think this is a very good way of thinking.
There are things that are literally overdone in the creative field, but somehow you still find something with exactly this trope that is genuinely good and works with the trope so well that you don't care because everything else just works with it, and I think you can apply this to literally everything. Ask yourself what and how you'd want to fix their art. If the proportions feel off, tell them and maybe also offer advice on how to fix it (look at references, try figure drawing, I got this tutorial which might help you construct a pose better, yadda yadda) - this isn't necessarily necessary for more seasoned artists as they usually know about how to fix it themselves/which resources to look up but we sometimes just need a reminder that we aren't perfect either and to occassionally check upon our proportions etc. as well.
I'm not really into "sugarcoating" things but that doesn't mean you should get insulting or demeaning either.
Art is all about practice and evolving over time, so the one thing I'd ask you to not do is telling people they'll "never be as good as _ " or could never do X, because that's just discouraging and plain wrong.

[SleepingPoppy]

What's your thought process for turning that knee-jerk reaction into a constructive criticism...or at least a non-insult? Preferably without making yourself into a total fake...I've always been wary of those "I think your art is cute!!1! <3 Keep on improving~!" comments under a piece that clearly has a lot of problems...

A good start would be understanding what an art critique really is. If the only things you can think of to say are insulting, you should say nothing. Insults don't help people get better. Calling someones work garbage won't make them a better writer or artist. You have to actually identify specific things they can do better, and talk about that. Where can they improve? If there's a lot that needs improving, maybe pick just a few that stand out.

It's also good practice to mix in a couple positives with your negative. When you go at someone with negative criticism, even if it's true, you run the risk of them becoming defensive, and defensive people don't absorb good advice. Think about professional teachers- the good ones will always look for ways to encourage their students and help them be better.

People come to art at ALL stages of ability. We should respect that, and if you don't want to help them on their journey, then you don't need to be critiquing them.

[phen]

i like reframing constructive criticism from 'heres how to fix your weaknesses' to 'heres how to take what youre doing further / how to take it to the next step.' it focuses on the positive

This is the crucial bit to take away for "toning yourself down", definitely agree with general positivity. Especially when interacting with individuals who are new to the scene or are hyper modest.

Constructive criticism isn't always good for everyone and it can be just as hard to dole out as it is to take. Therefore, it's marginally better to offer positive reinforcement. Delve into their work for just a few moments, you'll be able to pick out that which is important to them. PRAISE IT. Effort is effort, yo, we can all respect that, yeah? There's nothing more emboldening than your hard work being recognised.

[charliesackett]

I'm just honest. As long as you're helpful and not attacking the person it's usually fine. Be polite of course, but if someone asks you for your advice it helps no one to lie. Really anyone can get good at something if they are willing to put work in, so if they're asking for help then any lack of technical skill is just temporary.
People are usually okay with helpful critique if you let them know you believe they can get better. If not, then they probably were looking for compliments and not help, and they can go fuck themselves.

[vothnthorvaldson]

As it was already suggested, I would advise to not say anything if you really think it's garbage and find no redeeming qualities at all.

Despite hating hypocrisy in all its forms, I think it's the kind of situations when I will, if directly asked to give a critique, lie a bit and say I don't feel skilled to give them advice (not a full lie because I'm a beginner, but still...).

That is, unless I know the person enough to know they most likely will face the truth with not too much damage, or even better, if I have a strong feeling that they are the kind of people who prefer to get harsh critiques and start again from the beginning, rather than staying stuck in their current situation by lack of awareness. (that's me! Fell free to criticize my work harshly, that will NEVER be an issue).

However, this situation, I think, is rare; and almost only in cases where it's clear the work was half-assed. Conscientious, honest work is rarely completely devoid of interest. Sometimes I see drawing that I really don't find good, but there will be always something - colors, evident enthusiasm, a flow, details, topic etc- that I will like enough to make a positive critique of, and then add some of the worse negative points as a balance.

[Blizzriel]

I'd like to start by pointing out that most of the people in this thread defending "bad" art are thinking that the artists are people who have just started drawing and are probably young and don't have the experience to see the flaws in their own work. Unforturnately, some people are just straight-up bad.

I once knew someone who had been drawing for years and their anatomy was so atrocious their characters didn't even look human. Every OC (yes they called them that) had the same face with the same expression every time they drew them. I'm not sure exactly how old this person was, but we were a small Discord server of 6 people all late teens/early twenties. The one time someone tried to give them some advice on how to improve, they said, "I don't need criticism, I'll just improve naturally." Then they showed one of their more recent drawings side-by-side with one that was a few years old. The only difference between the two was that the newer one had a lot more unnecessary detail.

I don't like to discourage young artists, so when something looks bad I tend to default to "It's nice, good job!" or just say nothing unless they actually ask for criticism. Then I try to give genuine advice.

I think that's a pretty good rule of thumb. Don't be discouraging, only give criticism when they ask for it, and remember that there's no cure for stupidity.

[BobbyjoeX]

i don't think anyone else has that issue of flat out insulting other people's works

[unknown_user]

Constructive criticism isn't always good for everyone and it can be just as hard to dole out as it is to take. Therefore, it's marginally better to offer positive reinforcement. Delve into their work for just a few moments, you'll be able to pick out that which is important to them. PRAISE IT.

I agree, that reaching to people with your criticism when they don't ask for feedback, is not polite and maybe out of place. But if people ask directly for criticism, it means that they want it, isn't it?! Moreover, if people ask for feedback/review, that means that they also don't mind to receive some criticism as a possible part of this review. Because if they don't want any criticism in the feedback, they would ask for positive feedback specifically or just would go to corresponding positive-feedback forum threads.
I fully agree that people can take thoughtfully only restricted amount of criticism at a time, and that novices and young people should be treated softer, than mature and experienced one. I also agree that it is good practice to always try to find a good aspects in people's work, to not making your review too demotivating by the chance. But... praise the work which you don't like at all? Hmmm...
I personally don't want other people to praise my work if they don't like it. If people don't like it, but don't want to criticize particular aspects in detail (or I myself don't ask them to do it), they always can say that it's just not their cup of tea, or something like that. It may be sometimes a bit sad, but totally not insulting and fully understandable and normal.

if its someone young &/ beginning (say, my cousins who are still kids) ill generally go like 'wow! i love the red! you know what, you should read the book [x], i think youre ready for it.' or '(ditto), have you ever tried [thing that will move them forward, like drawing from life]?'

if i'm bored i'll just say its nice

I don't like to discourage young artists, so when something looks bad I tend to default to "It's nice, good job!"

It's your deal how to live and how to communicate, guys, but... would you want to others to do the same to you? I mean, do you want others lie to you that they like your work, when they don't?
I don't. Moreover, I would be really mad if I'd realised that someone lied to me like that because of pity, while actually they think that my drawings or stories are garbage. It is much, much more humiliating than just saying that they don't like it.
From my own experience, blatant lie is very problematic and hard to be keeping undiscovered. And when it get undiscovered, it may hit hard. So in my opinion, it is more simple, convenient and safe for everyone to just don't produce unnecessary lies and keep proper degree of honesty.

P.S. Also after these comments, all creators, who have unstable self-estimate (including myself), have a chance to gain a paranoia that people who have praised their comics, have lied.

[vothnthorvaldson]

It's your deal how to live and how to communicate, guys, but... would you want to others to do the same to you? I mean, do you want others lie to you that they like your work, when they don't?I don't. Moreover, I would be really mad if I'd realised that someone lied to me like that because of pity, while actually they think that my drawings or stories are garbage. It is much, much more humiliating than just saying that they don't like it.From my own experience, blatant lie is very problematic and hard to be keeping undiscovered. And when it get undiscovered, it may hit hard. So in my opinion, it is more simple, convenient and safe for everyone to just don't produce unnecessary lies and keep proper degree of honesty.

(boldfaced by me).

Yep. That's why I find being unduly nice is not something altruistic. It comes to me more as the contrary: "it's difficult to be not nice, it may have consequences, so I'll just be nice to avoid these consequences". At the least it feels lazy to me.

But the worse is that when the person realizes the critique was dishonest, they will feel humiliated and will feel it as an insult to their intelligence, so there may be way more resentment toward the person who gave the dishonest feedback, so at the end no one wins.

[phen]

I also agree that it is good practice to always try to find a good aspects in people's work, to not making your review too demotivating by the chance. But... praise the work which you don't like at all? Hmmm...

You are right -- I think this will spin out as a result of personal preference and in respective social decorum. You'll usually be able to gauge whether praise will help or harm an individual seeking it. It's very difficult to imagine such a scenario but if all aspects of someone's work are genuinely unappealing, I still can't imagine not praising the effort. If it's clear there's no effort forth, then that's a different situation.

[ratscout]

Holy smokes, I don't think I would ever look at another peer's work and think immediately 'this is straight garbage'. I think the main thing I do while critiquing is to keep in mind these things:
1. Be empathetic. If someone critiqued your work, how would you want them to critique you? You would want them to be honest, but still kind in their honesty.
2. Look at the work with an analytical mind instead of an emotional one. Simply think of it in terms of what worked for you in the story and what didn't. Believe me, there is ALWAYS something good to find in a story--even if it's Twilight. Praise what you think deserves to be praised, and at the same time, point out any flaws if you see them.
Another thing: Internet critiquing is alright, but it is a completely different and less effective experience than a face-to-face critique. If you want good, helpful, kind, and honest critique on your story, take a creative writing class. Seriously, it really does help you learn how to critique and how to take critique.

[SleepingPoppy]

It's your deal how to live and how to communicate, guys, but... would you want to others to do the same to you? I mean, do you want others lie to you that they like your work, when they don't?

Just pointing out that Punk was talking about children. And the advice they gave for how to help push them in a direction for growth is actually really good. It's not about lying, it's about knowing what to say to help artists become better. I mostly just don't see why this was included with the other two quotes which were about platitudes when you don't feel like engaging. There's a huge difference between guiding a child in a positive way and giving a generic platitude to someone you're not looking to have a deeper artistic discussion with for whatever reason.

[vothnthorvaldson]

Well, it depends of the personalities I suppose. I would have hated even more as a child, to get unduly praise, because I would have considered it as contempt from the adults. But I was lucky to have a family who always gave my positive AND negative feedback from as long I can remember.

[khanyatshaka]

I usually enjoy artwork that is not perfect,i think what matters more to me is how much effort the artist put in the work,and you can usually tell from the finish piece.... like I find myself enjoying cartoons that are not even good looking...south park for example.....

Into The Slumz :: Into The Slumz Chpt1 | Tapas

[mrtoontastic]

Yeah. Sometimes when I look at something or a random page of something I never seen before, it does look like a complete dumpster fire. We all do it. Can’t deny it at all here. Sue me. XD

Get me invested in what its about, and I'll easily look past all that. Even if I was an art critic.