15 / 29
Apr 2022

Hm, I see we've started getting the fun responses... ^^;;;;

So...because this MC doesn't have any close friends, she has essentially lost what makes her human? Is that what you're trying to tell me? Do...you think this is an okay thing to say...???

I feel like you're coming from a sympathetic place, but your judgement of this potential story and character seems to be weighed down heavily by societal limitations on who a person without friends can be and how their story can be told.

For instance:

By 'loner archetype', do you mean that thing where the MC of a story is like a mean anime boy who 'doesn't need friends' and pushes away all the characters who try to get close to him...? Because that's what I understand of it...but that's not the only way someone who doesn't happen to have friends can behave. ^^; Like, you claim that you don't have any friends; would you consider yourself to be part of the 'loner archetype'? Why do you assume that that's what's going on here...?

Also-- just because she doesn't have friends, doesn't mean she doesn't interact with anyone. Like many people have suggested, there can definitely be 'friendly' people in her life, people she likes and is familiar with, even if they aren't close.
Her two partners in the story have such roles...I suppose the 'normal' thing to do, as a writer, would be to make them of a similar age so that they'd be likely to become friends over the course of the story. But, because I decided to make them an older teen boy and a middle-aged mother of 3...they once again kind of fall more into 'friendly' territory. ^^; Their relationship during the story will have depth and importance, but I can't see it being the kind that would extend very far beyond the work they do together, at least not at this point in MC's young life.

I see what you mean by that, but one of my philosophies as a writer is: why not?? :T If there is a real, lived human experience out there that no one has tried to include in a story, why not give it a try? Why not treat it as something that matters enough to convey to others??
This is kind of the driving force behind the idea of representation: for as long as writing has existed as a profession, writers have been told that audiences just don't want to see certain characters, that certain lifestyles just can't be entertaining or interesting. But if we listen to these voices, we'll never expand the selection of stories that future readers will get to see and relate to.

If you have ever enjoyed a story starring a character who is female, neurodivergent, LGBTQ+, disabled, older than usual, younger than usual-- thank someone who didn't listen to people who told them that their particular slice of the 'real world' didn't have any place in the 'fictional world'.

...To be honest, no. It's just the way she is. ¯_(ツ)_/¯

I have this urge to be incredibly contrarian and go "I wonder, would you be asking 'why' if I'd said 'how do you write an MC with a lot of friends'"?? But (a) I already know the answer, and (b) it's a little beside the point.

When I build characters, I often decide on traits I want based on gut instinct/dice rolls, and then the process of fleshing them out consists of finding ways to make those traits fit together. Sometimes it's frustrating and I get lost and confused...like in the OP. ^^; But it always ends up being worth the effort, and it feels more natural than tailoring a character's lifestyle to fit a certain pre-planned message or direction. I think I get more 3-dimensional characters this way.

...there is so much to unpack in this little half-sentence, I don't even know where to begin

Um, well...I guess it's technically true that there usually isn't 'no reason'; there's always a reason for why a life ends up a certain way. In my case, for instance, I think the main reasons I've never had many friends are:
(a) Aggressive neurodivergence
(b) Having never really met anyone I particularly wanted to be friends with
(c) Finding relationship maintenance incredibly draining...probably due to (b). Maybe it wouldn't be draining to keep tabs on someone I really 'clicked' with, but so far I haven't had an opportunity to find out whether that's true, so...

So yeah. There are "reasons"...but they're not really under anyone's control, and they don't mean anything in a way that could make them plot points to reckon with. That's just how the cookie crumbled. =/
Which is what makes me suspicious of the question. ^^; It feels like you expect me to rationalize her 'friendlessness' in some way, despite the fact that in many cases (like my own) there's really nothing to rationalize.

*And by the way, when I said she was normal, I meant...basically, a non-artist. ^^ I've been around long enough to know that life as a creative person is just * different *, and I was hoping to get some ideas of other things that could shape her thoughts and interests, since I can't just use my own art-obsessed life as a blueprint. Just FYI~

Okay, I feel like this just needs to be said: people can still have fears, desires, and motivations-- basically, they can still have rich inner lives that exist outside of their relationships. The fact that I've never really had any close friends doesn't make me an aimless, pointless, passionless blob with no character potential, which is why these remarks (as a response to my question) feel a little...ignorant and low-key offensive. =/

And maybe it's just me, but when I write characters, I use more than just the other people in their adventures to develop them. I incorporate their own lived experiences, their outlooks on life, their morals, their personal likes and dislikes.
Sure, the direct influence of other people can affect these things, but they don't absolutely have to. And at the end of the day, no matter how much influence in your life comes from other people, you still make your own decisions. You decide what's most important to you, and why it matters.

Basically, agency and self-determination are also things that characters happen to be built of. I...really never thought I would have to argue this. ._.

It is a bit difficult to advise how to write a character without knowing their conflicts/goal or what they are doing. . . .

Character A may meet character B for the first time and may treat them exactly the same, regardless if they had friends or no friends, because character B is a terrifying ghost. I guess my main point is how does the character face problems or other characters.

  • Would they ask for help or figure it out alone? * How well do they read or observe people -- not at all obvious or so much like sherlock they can dance away from drama or something else?
  • How much do they care what other people think of them?
  • Do they pet the dog?

PS. not a writer

This is exactly my point. Stories that present not have any human connection as healthy are dehumanizing. Most of us need people, whether that is online friends (which are totally valid) or coworkers or family connections or something else. I've seen a lot of media that present MCs who don't need anyone: total, complete true loners. And half the time, they stay that way the entire movie/book and never make any meaningful connections and never struggle with feeling alone. That, to me, is dehumanizing. I just don't see how it can't be. It's very rare that someone can live like that and not be depressed. I mean, there are people who have schizoid personality disorder and they genuinely don't need people, but do we really need more media that says it's ok to be completely alone? This message is too common in my opinion, and I think sends the message that we don't need each other, when, if the past two years have taught us anything, it's that we do, in general, need each other. Feeling alone is an almost universal feeling and it's horrible and to present it as anything but just feels inauthentic. That might just be me bucking against my own discomfort with being alone though, cause like, yeah, maybe some people just never feel alone. It's really hard for me to understand that, because, to me, even just having one friend is significantly different than having no friends, but logically I can accept that I am wrong and that it happens.

Going to say this is all going to based on the story you want to tell. A lonely character that doesn't have friends in not a story, that is a setting. A lonely character without friends that learns how to have friends because of a incident in her life that pushes them to interact with others is a story. The main thing is I think you are putting the cart before the horse. Your story should already be written. You should already know what you want to tell. Then you make a character to make your story interesting/different/new. Too many people try to find a story for a character, that is not how you should be doing it.

It'd be interesting to see a character who doesn't have close relationships, but how to write that depends on what story you're trying to go for. If you're willing to elaborate more on that, maybe someone will have ideas better suited for the story you're trying to tell.

...

... do you though? You're not exactly being any less contrarian by assuming you already know the answer. At least if you just asked the question, the other person can at least pretend it wasn't rhetorical and give their honest answer.

(I bet the answer is 'yes', because it's an incredibly common question people ask when trying to offer advice on 'how to write X'.)

Sorry, it just really bothers me when people insist they know what's going in other people's heads. (Kind of like how people insist that they know you're miserable if you have no friends, you might even say!)

@Breezy I do need deep human interactions, but that doesn't necessarily translate to needing friends. I can strike up meaningful conversations with complete strangers, and I'm satisfied with that. I'd be okay with not talking to the same person twice every again in my life XD

Yeah, I accept that the world is very diverse and may be filled with lots of different kinds of people. It might be hard for me to understand, because I value most my relationships with my family (which is just about the longest term relationships you can have), but yeah, there are some people who are happy without having any friends.

Please understand though, my background is in medicine. I work with children and teenagers, and in my experience, the majority of them, particularly in the last two years, are feeling incredibly isolated and alone. Depression is ramped in that population and many of them don't understand why they are feeling the way they are. They are asking, "What's wrong with me?" I personally enjoy stories that say, "yeah, it's normal to feel alone and, yeah, life gets better when we make an effort to create meaningful and lasting relationships." This is 100% personal taste.

I know I already posted, but I keep thinking of ideas, and wanted to put them here in case they help.

Action/Adventure Series
This is easy. You don't really have to have other characters. The adventure can carry the story. And even if you do choose to have other characters, they don't necessarily have to be close to the main character. A movie like Spirited Away illustrates this. Or this other one where a boy was stuck in the woods and had to survive (I don't remember the name)

Non-Action/Adventure Series
A personal goal is a good place to start. It doesn't have to be a big one. She could want to maintain a farm, clocktower, or lighthouse, spending most of her time alone, but having mini adventures while doing her job/hobby. Maybe she drives a bus or does bartending, some sort of job where she comes into contact with other people without necessarily getting close to them.

The goal doesn't have to be job-related either. It could be something more personal, like wanting to get over a fear or wanting to attain some kind of power. But knowing what she does in her day-to-day life helps shape those more internal goals/conflicts. There's so many possibilities!

I'm not sure if I'm getting on the same wavelength as you are on but I can see how it may be difficult to write a story about a person who is really ordinary & not involved in interpersonal drama, etc. I wouldn't know what to write about them without it seeming to be just a diary & a rather uninteresting one at that. What is her story? What will draw readers in or surprise them? (I understand you may have answers to the questions that you'd prefer to not reveal at this time.)

Oof. I don't think I conveyed what I meant well at all if this is how you interpreted what I said. Sorry for any misunderstanding.

I should clarify that I don't think there's anything wrong with writing a friendless character and they can be just as interesting as those with friends. My favorite fictional character of all time actually spends a decade of his life living alone in the woods, entirely disconnected from society, and these sections of his life story are just as compelling to me as when he's surrounded by people.

Furthermore, I really don't exaggerate when I call myself a hermit. I live a solitary life, but I'm considered (by myself, co-workers, family) a very happy, optimistic, functional, 'normal' person, and I've found ways to live a meaningful life without close friends. I don't intend to invalidate friendless people; I am one lol. I am intimately aware of what it is to be friendless and what that life looks like, so I know also that people don't choose it (or fall into it) for no reason at all, and it deserves to be handled with honest thought.

If this thread was titled "how do you write an MC with a lot of friends" I would still ask you 'why' (tangent: In this case, I'd argue that one shouldn't throw in a bunch of friend-characters for no reason, every choice should contribute to characterization, which should contribute to the overall story; I believe good stories cut out as much arbitrary filler as possible). I ask you these questions because I think as writers we should always question why we make the choices we do with regards to our stories and characters. Being thoughtful and conscious of what you're doing helps you create a more coherent, effective story, so I've always advocated asking 'why' constantly as a creator.

I stand by what I said, and hope that this comment clarifies my meaning a little; I really do believe there's always a reason for everything (and, especially, should be when you're writing a story), and that deciding on some believable reasons for why MC is friendless will help you understand her better as your protagonist, how her friendlessness will play into the story, and how it'll shape her character arc and direct her story.

Even if you don't intend it to be a huge defining part of her character with emphasis placed on it, most fictional characters do have friendships. There are entire genres built around interpersonal relationships, so your MC not having friends will immediately set her apart and change the tone/direction of the story whether that was your intention or not. For example, I've noticed that stories featuring solitary protagonists tend to be slower-paced, more contemplative, and center around a similar set of themes. This kind of main character type lends itself to certain stories and tones, so my question is simply: What are you wanting to write, and how does your MC tie into it?

True, true. I don't mean to say that relationships are the only part of our lives that shape us, only that they're an undeniably significant one. Didn't intend to offend. Again, I am one of these solitary people but I'm fairly confident I'm not an aimless, pointless, passionless blob with no character potential either. :')

Going back to the main question of this thread, "how do you write an MC with no friends", I still think you first need to ask yourself "why". Why are they friendless and what purpose does this serve in the story? There are a ton of ways you could write a friendless MC. Knowing what exactly you're aiming for, and what kind of story you want to write, will be helpful to you in determining how you're going to approach writing this character.

Also agree with BoomerZ that creating an MC before knowing your story is like putting the cart before the horse, and that a lonely character is a setting, not a story. Hard to advise before getting more information.

I feel that writing a mc with no friends may be a little hard, but maybe you can elaborate on how their life is(I did some experiment and asked my friends to leave me alone for some time). It also depends on the mc him or herself. Do they just like to be alone or do they try to make friends but people still don't be friends with them.
I feel that focusing on the mental state of the person might help you write out something unique. What is loneliness to you?

Okay, since a lot of people have asked about the context of the story this MC is in, I'll take a crack at describing it. 6: But A, it feels a little weird because this is just a proto-story; it mostly exists in my head at this moment in time and I still don't know that much about the details.

And B...you're probably going to find that the existence of close friends in her life doesn't have a whole lot to do with this. ^^; Like, yes, of course the strength of her relationships will affect her opinion on the central conflict, but there's a reason I see it as more of an incidental facet of her life and less of a foundational pillar of her character.


Summary

So...as some of you may have guessed, this is an action-oriented story. To give a brief synopsis: human beings are used as avatars for extra-dimensional aliens to play a fantasy MMORPG. ^^ Each pair-up is voluntary, and the humans benefit from the aliens' ability to manipulate causality in their favor, based on how many 'points' they can rack up 'in-game'. This is the 'part-time job' I mentioned that the MC is occupied with.

As for the actual plot: over time, a lot of the human avatars in her area have been getting killed. Like, they are actually dying IRL, and this is not something that's supposed to happen. From the aliens' perspective, people's accounts are randomly getting deleted, so they're upset, too. And most of the story consists of figuring out who's behind it and resolving the problem.

Now, this is where things get fuzzy...as I said, I haven't actually worked on this story very seriously. ^^; But my current idea is that there is a certain player who doesn't want humans to have free will anymore, and their murder spree is an attempt to collect enough causality points to give the aliens full control over the world (and of course, their alien partner is totally on board with this). Eventually MC will have to confront this guy, there'll be a big final battle, maybe some anime speeches...you get the idea.


...And there you have it.

And now that I think about it (honestly, talking through this has helped a lot) I feel like her position in life of appreciating people and liking to be around them, even when these feelings aren't reciprocated, makes her a good foil to an antagonist who thinks people are so worthless they deserve to be made into mindless puppets.

Of course, yes, a typical 'power of friendship' MC would be a good foil to that, too, but this idea is more unique and I'm doing it instead. =p

P.S. I have this sneaking suspicion that some of you only asked for this context so that you can point at things and say 'oh, but look, these people could be her friends! Why don't you just write that?' As in, instead of what I actually want to write (see the title of the thread if you need a reminder).
Please...do not do this.

Really?? Because my experience has been the EXACT opposite. o_O The 'power of friendship' isn't a trope for no reason...it's everywhere. In everything.

'You don't have anything if you don't have friends', 'I would die without my friends', 'no friends no life'...these are the messages I've been bombarded with since childhood. That made me feel like I was some kind of freak or failure who shouldn't want to be alive.

And I'm not going to downplay the importance of social interaction for human beings as a whole...I've been through psychology classes, and I'm not stupid or self-centered enough to think that my experience represents the majority.
But, you know...I think people deserve a break from this messaging, occasionally? ^^; Just once in a while? People who are actually lonely and don't want to be reminded of what they're missing, or people who are just solitary and fine with it...or people who have bad friends. They deserve a break from constantly being told that other people that they can't control should determine the value of their lives.

Maybe this is just a neurodivergent thing...like, physical contact is good for most humans, but people who can't stand it still deserve to have a voice. Speech is important to the development of most humans, but people who don't speak still deserve to have a (figurative) voice.
We get that we're not the majority, you don't have to preach at us about how awful it is for neurotypical people to go without the things we spend our lives without, for the most part. But that doesn't mean our experiences are invalid, or need to be censored.

...I simply do not agree with that. :T I've been making stories for characters for years now, I've never had any complaints, and it's fun and works well for me and I'm going to keep doing it.

In general, I don't think the order in which you do things as a writer matters. What does matter is building outward from the ideas you start with, whether they're characters or events or even just settings, to create something that an audience can enjoy. And I think you should limit your advice to that process...y'know, the part writers actually spend time on and have control over.

Well.....the time the person would otherwise spend socializing is spent in other activities, be it their hobby and/or passion, or something to distract them from their loneliness.

sometimes a person can use some coping mechanisms, like an imaginary friend

The lack of friends can be caused by different reasons....be it shyness, being a difficult person to deal with, being weird or sometimes it can be circumstantial, like a lack of common interests with the people they meet or other circumstances which may lead to them bonding more hard.

Reading from your summary, I think if you want a character with no friends and since this is about free will, maybe you would benefit with a Basara/Giorno-type character where they're whole gimmick is that they're forces of nature, therefore they tend to blend in the background a lot... even tho there's the poster boys (except for Basara). They don't talk a lot, but they end up being the biggest reason the plot is even progressing.

I have a character in a future story I'm planning who's this cowboy. He's expressive af but he doesn't want to hang out with others since he thinks they'll get in the way of his life's mission (also he doesn't really do friends). Although there's a reason why he doesn't want friends, and while he does end up questioning whether or not he wants a solitary life, he does stay committed to becoming this force of nature that everyone sees him.

So maybe just do that. A force of nature or someone who's so driven that they don't really care for relationships. Not that they wanna be attached or anything, it's just not their thing.

Perhaps we tend to see and remember messages that annoy us more than the ones that don't? We feel overwhelmed by messages in media that we disagree with or don't empathize with, when perhaps the reality is that there is more representation that we think. Not specifically about people with neurodivergent, because I will be the first to say I believe that is an underrepresented population in media. However, I have noticed that action films and plot heavy novels often generate characters that do not have strong emotional connections. Of course, this is not all plot driven media, just some. You mentioned the power of friendship trope and I mentioned the loner trope (which I do not define as someone who pushes others away, but simply as an individual who does not intrinsically need human connections or friendships). These are both tropes, so perhaps they are more common than either of us believe.

Personally, I simply believe that most good story telling is predicated upon the interactions between characters and that it is through relationships that character is most clearly developed and explored, but I'm willing to admit that's 100% personal taste. I imagine my favorite stories with the friendships and relationships stripped of them and, even if the plot remains, imagine I would not enjoy them. However, at the end of the day, I firmly believe you should just write what makes you happy. In the incredibly diverse world, even if you are in the minority, there will always be someone who enjoys the same things you do or is feeling the same way you are. I'm a huge sucker for the power of friendship stories, but I think it's alright if you aren't.

Just to clarify, I certainly do not people who don't have friends shouldn't want to live, nor do I believe our value comes from others, nor do I believe not having friends means there is anything wrong with you. Feeling lonely is an incredibly common experience and many of us will have periods in our lives where we do not have friends or don't connect with anyone. This does not make us any less valuable or human. To me, saying something like "Not having friends makes you less human" would be like saying "Not having food makes you less human". What I meant in my previous comments was that most of us will crave at least one person to talk to, that social interaction is a universal need, even if its just an online friend or parent or coworker. However, I was wrong. I was wrong in my previous comment to say that all people need others, because I recognize now there are forms of neurodivergence that completely eliminate this drive for friendships. To clarify, I'm not talking about ADS, because even individuals who have difficulty connecting with others, still crave human connection, even if to lesser degree. However, some individuals don't need friends at all and that's valid. If you want to explore that type of individual, you certainly don't need my approval, but I say go for it. :relaxed: You're right, there are people out there who will love it. I have no idea how to write that type of story, because I have never enjoyed that type of story, but if you feel like you are the type of person that literally needs no one then you're probably the type of person who would be able to write that sort of story most authentically and beautifully.

I apologize for my previously ignorant statements and offending you and hope you are able to write your character as you've been envisioning.

Sometimes writing out what you already have planned helps, so it's great that it worked out that way for you. Reading over your summary, it's perfectly possible to write your MC's belief in the inherent value of human life without friendships coming into play, especially since I'd assume most people who will read your story are human beings who believe in the inherent value of human life.

If you want to flesh out her downtime hobbies in a way where it's less likely for readers to assume "Oh, she's using her hobbies to compensate for not having friends," I'd suggest having her be the kind of person who does 'fetch quests' for other people for fun. Stuff like getting cats out of trees, walking old people across the street, etc. It could be different people every time. She may not even need to interact with the people she's helping if you want to go for a more mysterious vibe. Her finding satisfaction in helping people in their daily lives might also help solidify the 'humans have inherent value' theme without going into 'everyone MUST have friends' territory, but that's just a suggestion.

Kinda late to the convo, and I can't tell if someone else has suggested this:

But the MC could be a "floater".

That's usually someone who moves from group to group and just knows a lot of people. These encounters may not be friendships, but they are relationships that invoke community without labels and expectations. And since you're going for an MC that's normal, this could read more like someone who prefers to live in the moment and see the general good in people.

Some ideas can be her talking a stroll around town, mingling into the crowds and taking in the atmosphere. There's a lot of people who enjoy people noises, and often times they find themselves in crowded places to settle into that scene (cafes, parks, beaches, public resting areas, etc.)

You can also show how her hobbies have her interact with other people. If she enjoys bird-watching, maybe she's part of a weekly bird watchers club or volunteers with animal programs.

And you can balance that with moments where she's alone, just vibing by herself and enjoying her own company.

Just a thought to consider!

1 month later

closed May 25, '22

This topic was automatically closed 30 days after the last reply. New replies are no longer allowed.