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Garchompula
Oct '23
1

Like, okay, I get it. I get the desire to promote, especially as a little guy, you need to get a platform somehow. We're all in the same uphill battle. But oh my god, some people have no shame. I've had people promote their comics in my own comments section, and today, I've had people follow me and comment for months only to unsub when I won't subscribe back. Jesus, it is demoralizing. You realize there's more than just numbers to these comics right? Finding out people I thought genuinely enjoyed my comics just want me as another shiny sub. Because that's all that matters, right?

I'm not gonna name who does this, because that's not what matters. The quality of their own work is not important, it's the fact that they feel the need to shill everywhere and so shamelessly. I've been drafting my comic for 2+ years. It's a project of love, and while I'm so grateful for the people who are enjoying the comic, there's a whole lot in that crowd that feel so two faced.

Thanks for reading my rant. Follow my comic if you like, it's called Drosera Overgrown but y'know, if you actually want to read it.

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    Oct '23

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    Oct '23
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Nugtown
Oct '23

Oh talk about it. The first time this ever happened to me, it was someone trying to flatter me first just to get me to sub to their story which barely even had anything even there to read and was never continued. The second time was kind of recently where the same thing happened to me and someone tried to promote on my own wall. In all likelyhood too it's probably the same person since they did the same to a number of people before me.

Lensing
Oct '23

It´s not "some people", the majority of creators don´t support other creators.

There is a small minority who supports other creators.

And an even smaller minority don´t want anything in return

moontokkym
Oct '23

Oh god I've met people like that :sip: a couple on tapas but the worst was a guy over 20 using manipulation tactics to get minors to read his oversexualised comic (like proper emotional manipulation "if you were my friend then you'd have read and commented every page of my comic, when you don't comment I want to KMS" said to people as young as 11).

The most agregous thing he did in public was shill not for his comic, but for his fanart count. He had a public tally of how many fanarts he had and would actively pressure people into making fanart just to make his number of fanarts go up, he didn't care for the fanart quality o'r thought, just that it existed. He really wanted 150 fanarts and he got them by horrible means.

Since then I've been really cautious around people who just promote for the numbers, finding out what he'd done to people behind the scenes was scarring.

MK_Wizard
Oct '23

I hate sub 4 sub myself. I wouldn't want someone to just be my fan as a means of bartering. Just as I don't want to feel obligated to read a piece that honestly isn't my type or for my demographic.

Garchompula
Oct '23
moontokkym

I don't understand that mentality. I used to do Youtube as a kid and encountered similar slimy people, but that's on a platform where you can be a millionaire if you play your cards right. The size and low payout of websites like Tapas you'd think would encourage artists to just, make for the sake of making.

KelheorRegular
Oct '23

I agree with everything on this thread, except the notion that "the size and low payout would encourage them to make for the sake of making". The thing is they don't know what's the real Tapas size and payouts. Like, literally they have no idea, especially when Tapas itself is saying "hey bro, you need 250 subs to get moneyz!". People only ever see creators that made it big (and we all know that "big" is subjective, both 5K and 1 million are considered big when you have 5 whopping subs made in sub4sub) and think that ah, they're probably drowning in fame and money.

@moontokkym wow that's...so effed up

moontokkym
Oct '23
Garchompula

I'm not exactly sure what's up with him but it was (and still is) repeat behaviour, basically the cycle is he creates a kind of cult following around him of young teens or even preteens, manipulates them, they eventually grow up and realise it's really unhealthy and wrong, and then he gets yeeted from wherever he was finding people. He'd then use a "my previous group of friends all turned on me for no reason and stabbed me in the back" narrative to gain sympathy with whichever group he would go to next..

Most of the really overt pressure he used in dms so mods wouldn't see how bad it was and he would pressure people to keep it secret, so the thing most people saw that gave them the ick was his comic in itself (which was 99% fanservice that he was pushing on minors), his really childish attitude towards critique (would ask for critique and then assume any negative critique given was someone getting revenge on him for a percieved slight), and the fanart counter... All of which younger members of the community could kind of brush off because when you're 14 you don't really know what level of maturity is in the expected range for a 23 year old.

Also this wasn't even on Tapas, it was on DeviantArt, Discord and a small website dedicated to one fandom (it's quite a small fandom for a property that didn't really take off in the english speaking world), so there was absolutely no financial incentive whatsoever for his behaviour, he just wanted to be the most important person in the room and minors were more likely to fall for his schemes.

2DLenzy
Oct '23

Holy eff, that's so sad to read. I'm sorry that happened to you, though I know now it's happening to a lot of creators out there.

I too make for the sake of making, for the love of creating and telling a story. True, I did have some lows because the "numbers" weren't budging, been 0 subs for the first 7 months. But I finally came here and got a few looks, and I'm genuinely happy with my subbers and I try to read through their works and engage as much as I can.

I did learn pretty quickly that bringing in more subs, and genuinely engaging in all their works (reading, commenting, liking many/most episodes) can build up fatigue and lead to periods of burnout - reader's burnout as well as creator's burnout. I just got through a long library but now I've finally caught up and I'm ready to look for more stories. And I've since learned that the "numbers" are not all that important --the creators are-- although it's an interesting motivator to get me out of my shell and attempt to promote and share my story, if only just to see what happens. But like all great creators, who are doing this story-telling for free, telling the story is what should count, beyond how many followers one gets.

For the record, as far as sub loyalty, I'm still subbed to Executioner's Academy (Rated M for blood/gore), which was abandoned because the creator now has a job and can't work on it. Been two years, but I won't unsub as I still have hope they'll return...

(Also, I just realized your avatar was a toaster and NOT ripoff Tony the Tiger with a fez...)

ThunderChicken
Oct '23

When I first joined Tapas I didn't know about these forums so I relied on looking at the categories to find new stuff to read. Unfortunately when you do that you're presented with all of the really successful works but few of the smaller, lesser known stuff. Don't get me wrong, I love Heartstopper, R.U. Screwed, and the likes, but I also like checking out things that are different.

The forums, after I discovered them, gave me the opportunity to do so. It seems like it's mostly people just starting out posting here. It's nice to see such a wide variety of stories, art styles, skill levels, et cetera. I love watching people's stories grow, their skills develop, and them finding their confidence.

If I sub to somebody's work it's because it piqued my interest. I may not read it right away, but that's only because it joins a queue. People will know when I start reading their stuff because I tend to binge read, so suddenly you'll get notifications that I've liked or commented on 10 or so of your pages. Often these binges will be kickstarted by an update showing up in my notifications. If I see you've just uploaded episode 97 I will not read it because I don't want spoilers - instead I'll go back and pick up where I left off last time, so even though you've just uploaded episode 97 you'll see me liking episodes 13-18 or whatever. Once I've caught up, then I start liking and commenting on the new stuff.

That being said, if somebody subs to my work I will sub to theirs as a courtesy. The difference between me and those "sub4sub" people is that I will actually READ the work that I've subbed to. Once again, it might not be today, especially if I join it 90 episodes in (if it's a brand new work with only a few episodes I often catch up right away), but I WILL read it!

Questionable_Liquid
Oct '23

Thank you for your time to make this. I agree with every point you have mentioned.

I am still in the same position regarding sub-4-subs, but I have loosened up a bit to where I would respect the decisions of others even if I disagreed with their actions. I wish this all would change ASAP—return subscriptions to the point of pure interest, not numbers.

TheLemmaLlama
Oct '23

Well yeah, but we don't pretend to support other creators in order to get support in return! Don't lump us in with the 'no shame' crowd, we're nothing like them :sweat_01:

Seriously though, I think there's an issue with the wider culture being 'you need to promote yourself; no-one else is gonna do that for you' and 'don't be afraid to really put yourself out there :D' -- of course people are gonna be shameless! There are people saying the reverse message too, but people are going to only internalize one or the other; you can't simultaneously believe you should never be afraid to put yourself out there and also that you should sometimes be ashamed of putting yourself out there in certain ways.

I personally don't mind people spamming my comment section or simply asking me to sub back; but if they try to guilt-trip me when I ignore them, that's when it crosses the line. For me, it's about entitlement; put yourself out there, just don't get mad at or blame anyone if you don't get the results you want :sweat_02: