I need to get this off my chest, I feel slighted

[StrangeVision]

Let me start by saying I have no delusions that my comic is some masterpiece or that it's unworthy of criticism. I know several areas of improvement I need work on and i'm grinding to get better. I can take criticism and appreciate it even in the harshest or bluntest of tones. Someone I asked for a quick critique in these very forums honestly said my art was horrible and I had no problem with it, thought it was funny and admired their candor. So none of this is what i'm hung up about.

What i'm getting at is a "review" I got of my comic earlier in the week. One i'd been queued up and anticipating for almost 4 years. Once my comic's time drew near I had a funny thought that i'd waited almost 4 years for this person's review and they'd probably crap on it. I found this amusing. Wouldn't be a biggie.
So I expected a negative review, what I didnt expect was a bad "review".

Of what amounted to a brief blurb, most of the review's real estate consisted of resources on how to improve my art. Things anyone can look up on their own. Ok. Fine.
Everything else that one might like to hear critiqued in their comic like plot, pacing, story arcs, tropes, color usage etc were skimmed over in one sentence, very vaguely. I understand reviews aren't beholden to being critiques as well, but when the person does go down the road of critiquing one facet of what makes up a comic, i'd expect the other areas to get more than a brief sentence, if that.
Ok. Fine.

What really got me, what has irked me the most about this is this reviewer referring to my comic from the start as a "superhero comic."

Superhero.

Anyone who's read my comic, actually read through all of it, would find this a bit puzzling and just plain inaccurate, and it's what led me to believe this person did not read my comic. Sure, 4 years of content to go through but if you've put yourself out there saying you'll review peoples' comics you should be up to the task, so that it's actually a review and not a first impressions. Especially when people have been waiting for almost 4 years.

Nothing this person said in this so-called review gave me the impression they read all of it, or even most of it. Not half of it. Just like the screenshots they selected from the very first few pages, the ugliest pages lol, and one from the most recent update, they must've merely skimmed the beginning and glanced at the most recent to get a semblance of an idea of the comic's current state and assumed everything in between. Saw some characters fighting and wearing bandit masks and made an assumption about the genre. Every vague thing they said could've been glimpsed this way.
4 years of content, developments, plot arcs, color palettes and this vague hand-waving is all my comic gets in a review.

Honestly, it feels a bit insulting, dismissive and this so-called review definitely does not represent an accurate vision of my comic at all, especially when they cant even label it in the right genre. I have no respect for this mishandling of a work. They told me to read more comics. I must say, if this person DID read through my comic and their understanding of genres is so limited they have to lump it into superhero comics, then i'd say it's them who needs to read more comics. (I mean, i'm always looking for more comics too, that doesn't change.)

This person definitely isn't a professional, so it's whatever. They dont owe an in depth rewiew, but that doesnt make the dismissive tone of the whole thing not sting. My comic's a mere update away from being completed, then i'm moving on to a new project. Starting fresh, it's very exciting. I'll be taking my ire from this situation and using it to improve and make something better.

Uh kudos to anyone who reads this. Thanks, and sorry, for listening to me rant. I had to get that out. Am I crazy? Would you not be a bit bothered by this, yet feel like you shouldn't be? Eh. Water under the bridge, must move on.

[eNVy]

Huh, it does sound like the reviewer didn't actually read your comic. I'd almost say a review should focus almost entirely on the story and characters as opposed to what's wrong with the art style. (Although I do think it is acceptable to talk about the art style).

Anyways, I don't understand why (what seems to be) small-time reviewers feel the need to insult developers, I think it is completely uncalled for for someone to say that you should "read more comics", as if the problem in your writing is that you didn't have enough material to copy off of haha.

[skicoak]

I read the entirety of your comic for the recent @tired_programmer 's Indie Creators Contest...

...and yeah, anybody that lists HOT METAL MIAMI as a "superhero" comic either didn't read it...or is a fucking moron.

And I don't think you should let the opinions of stupid people...or liars (Did they READ it?) affect you much.

[33rdCenturyCaveman]

Amateur reviewer with four-year waiting list?

[Kelheor]

Well, there's definitely no reason to wait for a review for 4 years, just as there's hardly any reason to do it after 4 years. I mean, you could become a professional comic artist, or finish the comic like 5 times, or just die of waiting.
So... Try not to take it close to heart

[DokiDokiTsuna]

Damn, I'm really sorry. I hope you didn't pay for that...I'd be mad too, if I waited 4 years just to get a garbage review.

This whole situation sounds kind of weird, though...why does this person bother keeping a 4-year-long waitlist if they're not going to take it seriously?? Why would anyone wait years for a review from someone who clearly can't be trusted to do decent work...?

I mean, I guess if they're not charging, you've got nothing to lose by throwing your name in the pot for them to look at eventually...but I dunno; I'd want to know who I'm dealing with before I give permission for something like that...

[skicoak]

Amateur reviewer with four-year waiting list?

Probably not going pro so they can compete in the Olympics.

[indagold]

Should just give your comic to be reviewed by friends or other comic artists... I mean it should be a red flag a reviewer takes 4 years to read a comic.

[puddle]

4 years? Wowie.. I can see why you'd feel hurt/slighted... and to not even get the "genre" right.. Wow

[darthmongoose]

It sounds like the reviewer didn't read the comic thoroughly enough to do a proper review, which sucks.

As somebody who does reviews, I always try to read the comic through as fully as I can, and sometimes that takes hours, but it's important to show that respect to the person who made the piece of work. They worked hard on it, after all, so even if it's rough around the edges, it shouldn't just be dismissed.
Sometimes I make mistakes because I'm only human and sometimes people's comics are long and complicated, but it's usually more like... you know, getting a character's name wrong... getting a bit confused about what a complex sequence of panels was trying to get across... you know, the kind of thing where maybe I wasn't quite paying close enough attention, but also maybe the creator wasn't quite clear enough in their storytelling and expected a lot from the reader. I don't think I've ever completely got a comic's genre incorrect, 'cause I at least always read them all the way through! Reviews are hard work but I think it's better to not do one at all than to half-ass it. The whole point is supposed to be to help the creator find areas to improve!

The four year waiting list I can sort of understand in a way. Anyone who has seen my review thread knows that I open for batches of around 5 at a time, and those slots all go within the space of a day, sometimes they're all gone within the space of around 4 hours. Then people who don't read the rules or pay proper attention still ask for reviews when it blatantly says "closed" on the thread title. I can't even imagine what the backlog might be like if I didn't close the submissions while reviewing. It's honestly pretty wild the reviewer kept to the commitment to review a comic that signed up 4 years ago. If I did that, I'd probably find a significant number of comics on the list had long gone dormant by the time I got to them.

Anyway, you don't have to take me up on this, @Hot_Coffee but when I start my new review thread, if you would like to be put at the top of the waiting list for a review, I will happily oblige, because it sounds like this experience kinda sucked.

[StrangeVision]

Cool, i'd be interested in that! The comic will probably be done as well, so you'd have the full thing to cover.

[StrangeVision]

Thanks, I appreciate it. Actually i'd be interested to hear your thoughts on the entire comic once it's completed next monday. Both barrels, as they say.

[skicoak]

Actually i'd be interested to hear your thoughts on the entire comic once it's completed next monday. Both barrels, as they say.

Roger that.

I will try to dig up my note from the contest and work from there. I subscribed at that time so I am fully up to date.

[rajillustration]

oh, that's really frustrating. It sounds like a review you could just give to anyone, youknow? like "work on your art by reading comics" is a very non-answer. Everyone's reading comics, and that's the advice you'd give to someone JUST starting out. To someone who's been doing this for years? ...man...And getting the genre wrong? Man that sucks. Sorry you had to go through that, it's totally fine to vent about it. I'd be pissed, too.

[Iris-Grimoire]

There are people that don't, but those are like starting out with a very small reference pool, or reading sprite comics (which have valuable info, but have a hard ceiling because it's limited to one, two angles). Going up to someone who's clearly doing serious work and acting like they're doing a half-baked fanfic is... Really disrespectful.

Also, a 4 year waitlist? I'd have given up on that already and paid someone, even if just a little bit for a quick read. Free starts being in quotation marks once they're asking you to wait through art improvements, writing improvements, self discovery, etc and disregard all of it as if you never left 2016.

[darthmongoose]

Cool, i'd be interested in that! The comic will probably be done as well, so you'd have the full thing to cover.

I'll bookmark this thread and tag you when I start the new one so you can take a slot if you want it

[amortelito]

Honestly, many people who think they are critics are literally self-righteous sh*t talkers. I can't find another word to describe what they do. some people think that the more negative they are, the more they expect to be perceived as "honest" or that they have "high standards" and they are too smart for you to please.

I think that no serious artist expect a "review" that is about praising them or just pointing out how good they are, we don't expect a destructive rant either. Especially if the criticism that doesn't even fit what the comic is about.

As a side note, I am not interested in anyone's review for now because I'm making the comic for myself and if anyone else likes it and gets invested in the story I am totally willing to listen to their petitions and criticism. (LOL my readers know that I love making them happy). But for now, I see no point in having the opinion of somebody who is not even interested in my work, in which I spend so many hours working to release for free.

[AVXP]

Not to be that guy...
AND IN THIS CASE, HOW COULD YOU KNOW?

But, the point of a review is not for YOU to use or react or take heed or ..accept as advice or whatever...
A peer review is to help you improve your book.
An editor and, and mentor and...and....that's their role.

A review is supposed to get THEIR audience (new readers) to check out (or skip) your work.
In other words, you don't get a critic to tell you how good (or bad) your stuff is.

They are not even talking to you.
They are speaking to a potential audience.

If a "critic" is "talking to you" - they are not a critic.
They are a fan sharing their opinion. lol
Critics talk about you.
Peers talk with you.
Fans speak for you.
Mentors speak to you.

If ANYWHERE there was advice (as you said) that was a peer review.
And I use peer because most of those giving feedback have comics (or want to) have comics of their own.
There's a huge difference.

*Most people sharing feedback on here are doing peer reviews, which usually amounts to "I would have" ...

Technical jabs, alone, are a thing and should always be paid attention to....
Also, on anyone's end, as a person submitting things for a "review" - are any of you taking the time to read their other reviews or at least their other posts to gauge what kind of insight this person has?

Are we asking a person with a terrible work ethic and comic (or no comic) to pass a serious judgement on our work?
Why or how could they? Really?

I know there's a huge thirst for attention "Somebody please read and like my stuff" but at some point we need to evaluate the evaluators. And that's no insult to all those who keep making threads promising to read comics and give feedback....

But there's an actual way to write reviews and be a critic.
Just because you claim to be doing a thing does not mean you are doing it.

I knew that was not a real review- from just how you felt about it.
That was a dismissal - something that a disengaged fan would do.

Sorry that happened to you.
Shake it off and kick azz.
Sounds like you are ready to do that - after you vented.
Well done.

[Lillumae]

My first impression to your post was thinking that I can't imagine most people would be up to the task of reading four year's worth of content and then writing hours long in depth reviews, after examining the notes they took a long the way. That's like a full time job. I'm not sure if there's some sort of standard episode/chapter/page limit most people are willing to read up to, but I wouldn't go into it assuming to have everything read. And I know you didn't want "first impressions," but if there's no set perimeters established--again, I wouldn't expect anything more.

I ended up finding both the review in question, as well as the original thread here. And it does look like there were no information or even any real promises listed at all, aside from (take it how you will) writing about what they felt needed improvement. No promise to read it in full. No promise to even answer the questions you wanted.

That being said, I understand your frustrations about the whole ordeal. The review, as you said isn't even a review on anything. It's not even a review or critique on the art, but rather reads as some shopping list curated by someone who is trying to establish themselves as an authority in the art world.

So I suppose that they did read enough of your work--none--if they got enough content at the start with your art to find something that needs improving. The only problem is that, yeah, I'm pretty sure you know where you're at in terms of art and so any comment regarding that only repeats information you most likely already know. The same applies for their reccomendations, which are just reitterations of the top reccomendations on any art blog/forum/website/video, etc. So unless you can offer some tailored art advice, it shouldn't have so much of a mention.

If you haven't, already, though, please look at the other content on their blog. I do feel a lot of it really does a good job at illustrating the type of content they put out, which appears to be in line with the type of review you received.

It's unfortunate after waiting so long with higher expectations, but I hope that you can detach yourself from it, because it in no way reflects on your work.

[AVXP]

You found the "review"? Where, um how?
I'd like to see it, myself.