I need to get this off my chest, I feel slighted

[carloswebcomic]

Call me crazy, but a review of a free comic is like putting wheels on a tomato.
Utterly pointless.
Really, why is this person's opinion of any importance?
If I cared what reviewers said about my comic, I would've packed up and left long ago.
I only care what my readers think, not some random guy that thinks his/her word has any bearing on reality.

Reviewers can suck a dick, specially ones that review subjective material which is free to read and anyone can go and see for themselves.

[Lillumae]

I don't want to link it, out of respect that the author didn't post it, but if you're curious, you might have better luck finding it on google than the forums and then searching the blog name to find the forum post.

I'm not sure if comments are enabled on the blog or not, but if you find it, I think it's best to just read it for the sake of clarity and leave it at that.

@carloswebcomic I think what people are looking for in a review is honest and unbiased feedback from people who are seperate from established readers.

Readers read because they already like it or have some sort of connection that might create bias or a tendency to overlook certain elements. I would liken the concept of a review to that of an art critique, which even if delivered by someone outside the profession, will provide insight into what others might think and the impact, reach, and effectiveness in your work. So the goal for most, I'd imagine, would be for improvement.

[AVXP]

Really, why is this person's opinion of any importance?

To drive traffic to your title. If they have an established base of readers, it's them that reads the review and gets curious.
The point of a review is that the reviewer sees way more content and only recommends the good stuff.
So the reader doesn't have to sift through the 3,000 webcomics to find a good one.

Free webcomics bring free readers.
You get more leeway when it's free but nobody wants to waste their time so an entity pointing the herd in the right direction is helpful.

I did see it and ouch, but the analysis is still the same. The reviewer dropped down to a "talking to an amateur" level and suggested fixes.

It seems to have suggested fundamental fixes and really ragged on the basic issues.
Rough read, but the good news is- even bad reviews generate traffic.

People want to see the car wreck and almost always say "It isn't as bad as they made it seem."

[darthmongoose]

Reviewers can suck a dick, specially ones that review subjective material which is free to read and anyone can go and see for themselves.

It's a good job we reviewers are all robots and don't have feelings. We definitely spend hours reading people's comics at their request for free to give people advice in order to feel superior and show off how smart we are. All of us are total assholes, and telling us to suck dicks definitely doesn't make us feel upset at all, because as mentioned, we are robots. And also evil.

Definitely.... don't feel upset or insulted by that at all. Nope. Totally evil robot over here.

[carloswebcomic]

It's a good job we reviewers are all robots and don't have feelings. We definitely spend hours reading people's comics at their request for free to give people advice in order to feel superior and show off how smart we are. All of us are total assholes, and telling us to suck dicks definitely doesn't make us feel upset at all, because as mentioned, we are robots. And also evil.

Definitely.... don't feel upset or insulted by that at all. Nope. Totally evil robot over here.

Okay, reviewers can suck a dick except you then.

[carloswebcomic]

To drive traffic to your title. If they have an established base of readers, it's them that reads the review and gets curious.The point of a review is that the reviewer sees way more content and only recommends the good stuff.So the reader doesn't have to sift through the 3,000 webcomics to find a good one.

I don't know, but does it?
How much does it matter compared to promoting yourself on social media and making connections?
And I'm asking an honest question here, does it really do much?
And should you really be so reliant on someone else's opinion?

[saintc]

I get your point, BUT it's free. There are people who get paid to review comics and books, the random person on the forums is properly just doing it for fun or because you asked.

When something doesn't go the way I like, and I'm ready to mouth off like I paid for it when I did not, I pause and realize it's essentially volunteer work.

When we take on a free service, we have to be prepared for the worst, I think.

---

IDK, man, I just think it's a bit strange complain about free services being the way that they are. Maybe that's just a weird me thing.

[33rdCenturyCaveman]

OP have bad review experience, but not all critics am bad. They gatekeepers in a way, but that not necessarily a bad thing either.

Ideally, critics make their hobby more accessible. Because they spend so much time on hobby, they am able to point to the good stuff, or at least the good entry-level stuff. They also play role in establishing standards and best practices. If creators are too busy creating and consumers too busy consuming then somebody has to stand up and explain what all the hullabaloo am for. In the big-picture sense.

[carloswebcomic]

That is a good point.
I've had some truly venemous reviewers and you raise a good point from the other point of view.

[33rdCenturyCaveman]

One problem is that few critics can step outside their own personal biases and judge a work from a more objective standpoint. They not all Roger Ebert.

Me look forward to catching up with your comic when Internet situation improves.

[Darth_Biomech]

Really, why is this person's opinion of any importance?

Because it will be 90-99% of the actual useful feedback you'll ever get? Fans rarely say anything constructive, because they're here to enjoy your work, not to criticize it. If they'll ever say anything, it's usually to congratulate you on this or that thing they had noticed. You are at a serious risk of getting trapped in an echo chamber if you will listen only to fans.

If I cared what reviewers said about my comic, I would've packed up and left long ago.

Should be "If I cared about the quality of my comic, I would've packed up and left long ago.", then.

Well, on the other hand, if you don't want to be better at doing what you love, then yeah, reviewers can go suck a dick, sure.

[carloswebcomic]

Well, on the other hand, if you don't want to be better at doing what you love, then yeah, reviewers can go suck a dick, sure.

Maybe I want to be better on my terms, not on someone else's.

But then again, my purpose for making the comic may not be conducive to a reviewer's opinion. But if you value what a critic says, good for you. If you don't, good for you.

[Darth_Biomech]

But skill is an objective thing, it's not an opinion or "terms". If a reviewer says my story pacing sucks, then it's a signal for me to comb over that aspect of my comic once again and dig up some more educational stuff on that subject - regardless of if the reviewer was correct or just wanted to insult me. Same with "anatomy is bad", "dialogues are flat" and every other bit. You can't get better by yourself. Well, no, you can, but it will take you precisely 57 times longer to make the same amount of progress than a person going out asking people to shred his work did. All that's required of you is to sacrifice some of the pride.
And you want to be as quick as possible - you have only 60-80 years to live, and 70% of that time you won't be able to work on the things you love.

[Iris-Grimoire]

Okay but if you get lost with what to improve, you NEED that second opinion. If someone didn't get up to me and go 'you keep drawing your hands with gigantic fingers, if it's not a stylistic choice, I recommend studies', I'd keep struggling with poses because I was indeed drawing them unintentionally long. If Teasidesketches, Darthmongoose, and KidJake didn't suggest that I cut the exposition and focus on interactions, I'd have 10 extra pages coming up of a scene that didn't need to be as long as it is and GOD I'm so grateful I cut that out and will end Chapter 1 a little sooner. It's not weak to admit I was just going along the motions and getting myself into a trap until a stranger told me otherwise, I accepted a little bit of team work which is valuable as an artist and writer.

A reviewer that's bad is wasting a person's time and sometimes money/self esteem, but a good review gives you pointers where you might've had none. It's someone that doesn't have your huge text files, plans, context, nostalgia and attachment for the characters - they'll see it as your readers see it. And that's really important. They might not give direct, essential and must-do advice, but they'll see a perspective you physically can't have on your own.

[carloswebcomic]

But skill is an objective thing, it's not an opinion or "terms". If a reviewer says my story pacing sucks, then it's a signal for me to comb over that aspect of my comic once again and dig up some more educational stuff on that subject - regardless of if the reviewer was correct or just wanted to insult me. Same with "anatomy is bad", "dialogues are flat" and every other bit. You can't get better by yourself. Well, no, you can, but it will take you precisely 57 times longer to make the same amount of progress than a person going out asking people to shred his work did. All that's required of you is to sacrifice some of the pride. And you want to be as quick as possible - you have only 60-80 years to live, and 70% of that time you won't be able to work on the things you love.

I do understand what you're saying, but you're not under any obligation to improve. Well, unless you are doing this for a living, in which case it would be a completelt different story.
Sure, you may be lucky and get someone who objectively tells you things like anatomy, and pacing, but even then it's so subjective. Saying dialogue is flat is not an objective observation at all. But regardless, it is still an opinion that only holds as much weight as you want to give it.
Hey, maybe the person does not care to get better? Does everyone want to get good as quickly as possible?
I don't know.
Everyone has a different purpose for making their comics and what they want to give to the public differs from person to person, specially when it comes to hobbyist webcomics.

[carloswebcomic]

Yes, that is a good point if you're struggling for a second opinion.
Just got to take care on what it is considered improvement and preferred choices.

[Darth_Biomech]

but you're not under any obligation to improve

Yes I am. It's the core essence of the human existence - to be better and to improve. If not - why do anything at all? Why learn to speak further than "me go store buy green thing"? Why go to school? Why read books? Why watch movies? Why talk with people? Why get up from the bed? Why cook the food instead of eating it raw? And so on.

But regardless, it is still an opinion that only holds as much weight as you want to give it.

Precisely, but explain to me what's a difference between a reader and a reviewer that the reviever's opinion is weights so much less? Is that because the reviewer isn't afraid to tell what he didn't like?

Hey, maybe the person does not care to get better? Does everyone want to get good as quickly as possible?I don't know.

Sorry, but not wanting to be better at doing what you love is literally an incomprehensible concept to me. Whatever your reason for making comics is, you will be achieving it better and more fully if you will be better at drawing comics. The only reason to not wanting to be better is if you absolutely do not care about neither the thing you are making nor what will happen to it after you are done. Which sounds like a pointless masochism if you aren't even paid for that.

[carloswebcomic]

Yes I am. It's the core essence of the human existence - to be better and to improve. If not - why do anything at all? Why learn to speak further than "me go store buy green thing"? Why go to school? Why read books? Why watch movies? Why talk with people? Why get up from the bed? Why cook the food instead of eating it raw? And so on.

But that's your prerogative.
I'm not telling you what to do, because frankly it's none of my business. But what you feel you need to do has no bearing on anyone else.

Precisely, but explain to me what's a difference between a reader and a reviewer that the reviever's opinion is weights so much less? Is that because the reviewer isn't afraid to tell what he didn't like?

They are the ones you're having a relationship with, not the reviewer.

Sorry, but not wanting to be better at doing what you love is literally an incomprehensible concept to me.

Well, you be you. Whether you understand it or not, that's kind of irrelevant to anyone except you.

Whatever your reason for making comics is, you will be achieving it better and more fully if you will be better at drawing comics. The only reason to not wanting to be better is if you absolutely do not care about neither the thing you are making nor what will happen to it after you are done. Which sounds like a pointless masochism if you aren't even paid for that.

But that's not your problem though, is it? Whatever people want to do is their prerogative.

Listen, whatever you want to believe is up to you and it doesn't really affect me. However, dictating what a purpose should be is kind of pointless.

[apocalyptysm]

ah, so sorry you had to deal with this

you are not crazy. please, this person you just mentioned doesn't sound like a genuine reviewer. i'd honestly be Mad mad. and 4...years...really. wow. hope you don't let their words affect your art ): i'm sure you're doing absolutely wonderful ^^

[Mallory]

I'm a frequent lurker in some comic critique reddits and forums and I have to say, the "art student art critique" is my favourite annoyance. You cannot evaluate comic art with the same critical lens you might use on a standalone piece, because comic art serves the purpose of telling a continuous story, and the only thing that matter is how well it does that one, singular job. My 50 page/3 chapter comic I'm working on right now is going to be 250 individual panels/images. That's a BOATLOAD of images - and that's a short (by comic standards) project. Sometimes shortcuts have to be taken in the interest of efficiency. Those shortcuts are stylistic choices, that may not be to the reviewer's liking.... but it doesn't make it wrong or even worthy of mention from a critical perspective.

That's not to say you can't have valid critique about the art aspect in general (if your shortcut is exceptionally anatomically incorrect, it's probably worth a mention), but I find that a LOT of amateur/inexperienced/disinterested "comic critics" will fall back on that because they don't actually understand comics well enough to critique anything else. In those comic critique forums, I've had to interject several times already when someone went on and on about how "someone's art is bad and needs to improve" when in reality they had a lot of movement and emotion in their art that actually did a very good job of telling their story. No, they weren't an amazing artist, no, I didn't like their stylistic choices, but their art did its job of telling the story... IMO it's actually kinda rude/lazy to choose to focus on the art when you can look at and critique the things that actually matter to a comic. Yeah if the art is so distracting that you CAN'T focus on anything else, sure, focus on the art, but just because STYLISTICALLY it's not your cup of tea, doesn't mean you get a pass on avoiding the important things when the art lays out said important things clearly enough. And if you ARE going to focus on stylistic things, you would focus on stylistic things that interfere with the telling of the story (i.e. you may focus on perspective, but your focus would be because the wonky perspective makes it hard to distinguish the action that's going on through the panels, not just "bad perspective, here's a link to 2-point perspective explanation")... not your personal preferences. And DEFINITELY not "make the women more sexy" which, I, unfortunately, have seen uttered as a "comic critique".

I do think it's a little much to expect someone to read 4 years worth of comic updates for a free review though. IMO 2-3 chapters (30-ish pages) is all you should ever really expect out of a reviewer, unless they actually end up liking your comic as they review it. They got lives and other projects to do as well. I would, however, think that if you're a reviewer who has a 4-year waitlist, that you'd maybe sample a more recent chapter just to give a perspective on where the comic is as of the day your readers read your review.