Ideas of Criticizing and 'Cringe'

KniightDoktor 2017-06-21 00:00:33 UTC #1

I'm rather curious on people's ideal concept and opinions of this.

I've had trouble with it, in a bit of a negative way since I've mostly seen critiquing done
in a very negative and unprofessional way. It's done poorly and rude.

A major example is the "Cringe compilations" with young animators trying to make progress.
I know expressing opinion is one thing but this isn't exactly okay to do...

I've started off this way like many others and to see this becoming a more common thing it's
really messed up.

I can understand too that you can't be sensitive to people pointing you out for your imperfect work
but my point is that it's still not exactly the right way to help someone try to become better.
I've even have others look at pointless little doodles I've done that have no real meaning or logic to them
and someone insisted on trying to be really critical with it. They felt dumb when I told them they're
not even anything serious, just for fun. It's pretty sad and frustrating for me to see that though.
For others to just try to make progress and to be shut down so quickly they can't even really enjoy
what they do.

I'm not gonna bash on anyone for their views I just think it should be taught to be done more
professionally and not so unkindly. Maybe I could be wrong and certain levels of PUSH
to do so...

But please, tell me how you think of it? Your inputs?

indagold 2017-06-21 00:27:11 UTC #2

If you're uploading stuff on the internet be very aware no one is required be nice to you if you're bad at drawing. Suck it up and try to stay positive in the face of negativity. Not everyone is gonna give you an honest critique or pat you on your back. You're the one who's job it is to make improvements, instead of crying over someone saying your art sucks or bullying yourself by saying "yes it does" and never draw again, make an effort to improve, push yourself. One day you'll look back at your old art and realize how you proved everyone wrong and laugh at how far you've come.

You are your own teacher and you are your greatest judge.

isaacfriedman 2017-06-21 00:33:48 UTC #3

I'm going to be brutally honest with you, so if that's not what you want, feel free to ignore this.

honestly I think that more artists need to keep their work to themselves until they have something they'd be really, truly proud to put online and that is worthy of legitimate criticism. People aren't going to give legitimate, serious advice to somebody who was so brash that they put a poorly proportioned, poorly rendered, inconsistently colored / outlined, or choppy looking work. I haven't seen your work. I'm not judging you personally. I'm saying that, in general, things that look on par with a 2nd grader's doodles are not critique-able. When somebody posts that type of art online, it's like somebody bragging that they walked ten feet of the Appalachian trail.

Just like a hiker, an artist has to take their first steps. They have to start out terrible and slow and with bad form. That's how you learn. However, hikers don't post every step they take online. Hikers don't start a blog before they've even seen a trail in person, talking about how great hiking is. When an amateur artist says "I'm here, look at me" when they aren't well-practiced enough, they aren't going to get legitimate criticism, they are going to get mocked for wasting the time of people who don't have time to give that amateur the information that could easily be gained via google or a drawing book form your local library.

If your subject material is the issue, that's an entirely different situation. It does not matter how well you draw them, there are some things that the general population will always think are weird or "cringey." I really don't have anything that's comparable to the type of non-criticism you receive if you draw anything seen as "taboo" or "bizarre." There is an audience out there for every subject matter, but some are certainly more niche than others, and if you post a niche subject material in an open forum, you're just asking for people who dislike that subject to come and insult you.

joannekwan 2017-06-21 00:37:43 UTC #4

Even outside of the internet, you need to have a thick skin for critiques, the art world is rough.
Fact of the matter is people under the veil of internet anonymity (and some without it) can be major dicks.

The best you can do is train your eye to spot your own mistakes and ask critiques from reputable groups of people. The forums here are pretty good for that.

NickRowler 2017-06-21 01:03:21 UTC #5

I used to follow a Tumblr that would post "cringy" Mary Sue OCs. The blog would go through and point out all the faults within the character's description and design. They usually picked random OCs they found and didn't ask permission. However, I think they did delete posts if the original creator asked them to.

Yeah, pointing and laughing at someone's art can be mean however, acting like everyone is going to embrace your MS Paint neon vampire angel anime princess than you are seriously misguided. You are putting your OC out there for the world to view. Sure telling the creator of the OC to "go die" or "this gave me cancer" is not valid criticism. But if someone says your character is OP and out of place in the Harry Potter universe, those things are valid. I know that some of these people are young teens, which does seem like a low blow. However there are some people who are older and are a little nuts, like those who create cringy fetish art.

OccasionalNightmares 2017-06-21 01:09:07 UTC #6

Honestly, I don’t believe there’s much of an opinion to be had here. People do messed up things, including putting down artists for no reason other than to put them down. It happens in all areas of life and in all groups, so it’s to be expected in any given art form. I’ve experienced it myself with my writing, sending in short stories to publications and anthologies. The kind of brutal non-feedback you experience as a young, beginning writer can be shocking – you’d expect to hear “You really should just stop writing” from some random person on the internet, but not an official representative of a reputable publication company. I never imagined physical art would be any different – if anything, I could only assume it’s infinitely worse.

I think something everyone must keep in mind, is that not everyone is creating art for everyone. Some people create art primarily to entertain themselves, and secondarily to share with a few other people. Sure, they put it up in a public place like the internet, but that’s because that’s pretty much how we do everything nowadays. That doesn’t make it okay to go in and rip apart someone’s artwork under the guise of “I’m trying to help you improve!” What if they aren’t interested in improving the way you want them to? Just because we view someone’s art as cringey doesn’t mean they must change it to fit our preferences. If they ask for feedback, then they’ve opened the floodgates – but otherwise, to go up to someone who’s made art and not asked for feedback and to rip it apart, it’s plainly just being a dick, regardless of how much they claim it was “to help them improve.”

erma 2017-06-21 01:10:25 UTC #7

I agree that if you're uploading something onto the internet for the public to see, you should try to be open to accepting critiques. Once it's out there, it's out there for everyone to see. And unfortunately, with helpful critiques also comes the people that are just generally rude. But a great thing you can do is accept the genuine and constructive feedback that you come across. As time goes on and with more experience of receiving critiques, you'll build up some strength and will be able to handle it better.

I have mixed feelings about the "cringe compilation" videos because a lot of the times it includes art of very young people like you said.

It's honestly a lot better, in the long run, to hear the difficult truth than have everything be sugarcoated. In my own experience, the first couple of critiques I got were tough to hear, but they pushed me to learn new things rather than stay at the same skill level for years. Even the unhelpful, mean-spirited remarks can spark motivation in someone (that doesn't justify people being mean for the sake of being mean though). Walking on eggshells around an artist does more harm than good, especially if they're very serious about being an artist.

nuryfury 2017-06-21 01:27:18 UTC #8

I'm speaking more to the viewers than the artists themselves.

If an artist does not specifically state that they want criticism, do not give criticism. That's it. The fact that strangers feel so entitled to offer their voice when it is not asked for is baffling.

Personally, if I want criticism, I go to people who I know are educated artists, whose opinions I can trust.

That being said, artists should have times where they do ask for criticisms and seek to educate themselves, especially when they hit roadblocks within their art. But forums and videos where they relentlessly pick apart young artists' work under the guise of "I'm just trying to help you improve" is not helpful, its bullying.

"Artists need to keep their works to themselves", absolutely not. Sharing and creating art is a form of bonding and create communities with common interests. For both serious artists or those who just draw for a hobby, for fun, sharing with their peers is an exciting part of the process.

When I was young, I created tons of OC's and fan art to spread my love for various media.I loved to draw, I did it every single day since before I can ever remember. Honestly, in elementary school I was known as the girl who drew everyone's favorite Pokemon. Passion does not die out with age. I draw original characters, scenes, I like to experiment. Even now, I'll create illustrations without first creating thumbnails, or researching color palettes. Maybe the anatomy was wonky but I liked the flow. I create art for me, and to share it means I am sharing a privilege viewers take for granted. I take my art education very seriously, and you'll know when I'm studying, because that is when I ask for criticism. Everything else? I drew it for my own reason. Personally, criticism doesn't bother me, but I've seen teenagers, even preteens being subject to "bullying" because someone wants to show off how much more they know. This is how passion dies. Criticism should never be only negative. As someone who intends to educate, you must point out the aspects where they were successful, and where they need to improve. A criticism should inspire the artist to move forward, not back down.

Let people draw. Not everything has to be a lesson, and not everyone's critique is wanted, well thought out, or educated. I'd always take my professors word before I'd ever consider going to deviantart.

nuryfury 2017-06-21 01:29:49 UTC #9

If people want to create mary sues, let them. If people want to have fun, let them! Art is not everyone's job, and this is something a lot of people don't understand.

erma 2017-06-21 02:20:24 UTC #10

That's fair.

I also agree that a proper critique should still include things that the artist did well in the piece, forgot to mention that

KniightDoktor 2017-06-21 02:40:31 UTC #11

This is very true. I completely understand where you're going with this, thank you for sharing.

KniightDoktor 2017-06-21 02:41:33 UTC #12

I understand what you're saying.
Thank you.

shazzbaa 2017-06-21 03:36:25 UTC #13

I don't think this is a new trend. People making fun of things on the internet is as old as the internet!

That said, making fun of children or hobbyists or folks who are still learning is a bad look.

The internet is not a professional gallery, and I don't agree with the idea that you have to be at a certain level of polish before you stick your work up on the internet's refrigerator. Art, for many, is just expression and communication -- someone who posts their art online isn't necessarily saying "I'm great, look at my work!!" but maybe just "hey, is there anyone out there who likes this kind of stuff too?" Especially in fandom circles, a drawing is often not meant to show off skill, but to participate in a conversation about a mutual interest. It would be weird to tell them to stop putting the stuff they do for fun on their personal blogs just because they're not pros.

Now, if an artist goes into a community of professionals who give each other feedback, and shares her work with them in hopes of feedback, then she can't be angry if they are bluntly honest about her work's shortcomings instead of encouraging her first fumbling steps. It's your responsibility to pay attention to the community you're sharing your work with, and whether the sort of feedback that community gives is going to be useful to you.

Ultimately, though, the only thing you can control is how you respond. Sure, if a person goes onto someone's personal blog, or into someone's deviantart gallery, or wherever, and critiques their work without asking if they want critique, then that person is being very rude regardless of whether their critique is valid. But, if you're an artist who puts your work out in public, then you might run into rude people, and it's important to be able to handle rudeness with grace. I wouldn't necessarily say you have to have a "thick skin" -- heaven knows I don't -- but you need to be able to deal with that sort of thing happening without letting it cripple you, and to be able to not take it personally.

phen 2017-06-21 03:55:04 UTC #14

First, I do agree with the idea that if an artist does not explicitly claim to be looking for in-depth critique, it shouldn't be forced onto them. Taking critique is something that, like art and like any other skill, has to be learned from experience. However, I do not agree with the exclusivity of accepting critique from "in-the-know" sources. Your professors, your peers in the art field, your family and friends can only offer you regurgitated views of rather limited scale (often ones you'd come up with on your own).

By no means should these people be shut out but it's highly damaging to one's growth to refuse critique from ANY pool. Deviantart hobbyists, grandma at the supermarket, little kids on the playground -- if the aim is to expand artistic prowess, it is imperative to keep your perspective wide open. The simplest thing, the smallest remark from the most mad spout can spark imagination and if that's shut out simply because of a misconception that only artists and professors are qualified to critique art, a crucial part of the creative journey would be sorely missed.

Constructive critique is valuable whether it comes from an educated source or not. Collaborative projects are wildly successful ventures with beautiful innovations due to approaches from outside the box.

WintreKitty 2017-06-21 04:33:37 UTC #15

It irks me that critics get such a bad rep a lot of the time that many artists are instantly put on the defensive no matter the form the critiques come in, since they are already expecting to be attacked. What ends up happening is the artist attacks right back, or ignores even the good advice because they are afraid of being told that something they are proud of isn't perfect.

Now, not all artists do this of course, but it makes it difficult for someone who genuinely wants to help to be able to do so if the artist is already blocking out any valuable critiques along with the bad ones.

This is entirely because the amount of negative critiques drowns out the few positive ones. It can become daunting and difficult to even separate the good from the bad at times.

That being said, I think that if you are posting anything on the internet, you should expect criticism. If you don't want criticism, then don't post it. I know it sucks to post something you are proud of on a social media platform and getting those comments that point out something that needs improvement. But I also think that's incredibly valuable. The best way to learn is from those around you. The internet has made is so much easier to gain this knowledge and to learn from mistakes.

There's no way to completely get rid of negative criticism, but your reaction to it is what truly matters. Be able to separate the good from the bad. There will always be bad critiques that will get to you, but it's important not to give up and to prove to them that you can improve and grow. Utilize the good critiques and be motivated to prove the bad critiques wrong.

Simple comment critiques are good, but it's also a great idea to seek out professional critics. Some are good, some are bad. Just do your research and find the ones that you believe would help you in prove the most. Sometimes it's wise to suck it up and take the more negative critiques if you think that critic has the most to offer in terms of future growth.

There are positive critics out there though. You just have to dig around and ask others and see who they would recommend.

Hopefully this helped a little. I apologise for the wordy response.

All the best,

Wintre

spadesart 2017-06-21 05:05:25 UTC #16

i really disagree with cringe comps, especially when their sole purpose is to tear down beginning artists work. i'm not saying you should shower them with nothing but gushy positivity but we should be motivating them instead of telling them their art is 'cancer' and saying they have no place.

my problem with this statement is that that whole thing is up to the artist. not the viewer. some of my first drawings and animations i made are ugly as hell but i was so proud and excited to post them when i first joined deviantart. my old speedpaints were 360p made in moviemaker but i was so happy i figured out how to make one. cringe comps didnt really exist when i first started posting so there was also no sense of fear that so many artists have now.

like yes!! critique young artists to help them but cringe culture is just brutal and mean spirited just so people can feel better about themselves. animation? hard as hell and impressive that kids are at least trying to pursue it at a young age!! ocs? im 100% supportive of just going wild and having fun. ocs are SUPPOSED to be fun and self indulgent!! theyre not hurting anyone!! these kids are posting because they are looking for genuine feedback and because theyre proud to have made something even if to you, may not seem like any effort was put into but may have been a hurdle for them.

again, im not saying to shower them with mushy gushy compliments but we should at least be motivating them instead of laughing at them and tearing them down.

WintreKitty 2017-06-21 05:13:01 UTC #17

When critiquing, a good rule to follow is to compliment it then say where they can improve it further.

spadesart 2017-06-21 05:13:49 UTC #18

yes thats what im saying

isaacfriedman 2017-06-21 05:33:39 UTC #19

I was thinking about that possibility as I wrote that, and honestly, you are 100% right. It's the artist's choice. How is one supposed to know when it is acceptable to post their art? I definitely didn't know either. My comics a year ago are garbage compared to what they are now. My art now will likely be garbage compared to what I do in the future. Four years ago I created some "cringey" fanart that actually got featured as exactly that on a blog dedicated to obnoxiously bad fanart. When you're a kid or new to the online art community, its really hard to know when you're really ready for legitimate criticism. My harsh words were more from a position of experience than mockery as my proportions are still garbage and my composition is inconsistent at best. Thankfully, forums like this one exist in order to get pointers on how to improve.

punkarsenic 2017-06-21 06:41:03 UTC #20

im pretty sure everyones aware that people on the internet are assholes. i dont think it really means that every little kid putting themself out there has to just 'suck it up' when they become a joke for humourless 20yos. its hard, and shouldnt happen, and acknowledging that it shouldnt happen actually makes it a lot easier to deal with.

absolutely, people shouldnt quit over mean comments. but what good does an attitude like yours do?