Ideas of Criticizing and 'Cringe'

erma 2017-06-21 02:20:24 UTC #10

That's fair.

I also agree that a proper critique should still include things that the artist did well in the piece, forgot to mention that

KniightDoktor 2017-06-21 02:40:31 UTC #11

This is very true. I completely understand where you're going with this, thank you for sharing.

KniightDoktor 2017-06-21 02:41:33 UTC #12

I understand what you're saying.
Thank you.

shazzbaa 2017-06-21 03:36:25 UTC #13

I don't think this is a new trend. People making fun of things on the internet is as old as the internet!

That said, making fun of children or hobbyists or folks who are still learning is a bad look.

The internet is not a professional gallery, and I don't agree with the idea that you have to be at a certain level of polish before you stick your work up on the internet's refrigerator. Art, for many, is just expression and communication -- someone who posts their art online isn't necessarily saying "I'm great, look at my work!!" but maybe just "hey, is there anyone out there who likes this kind of stuff too?" Especially in fandom circles, a drawing is often not meant to show off skill, but to participate in a conversation about a mutual interest. It would be weird to tell them to stop putting the stuff they do for fun on their personal blogs just because they're not pros.

Now, if an artist goes into a community of professionals who give each other feedback, and shares her work with them in hopes of feedback, then she can't be angry if they are bluntly honest about her work's shortcomings instead of encouraging her first fumbling steps. It's your responsibility to pay attention to the community you're sharing your work with, and whether the sort of feedback that community gives is going to be useful to you.

Ultimately, though, the only thing you can control is how you respond. Sure, if a person goes onto someone's personal blog, or into someone's deviantart gallery, or wherever, and critiques their work without asking if they want critique, then that person is being very rude regardless of whether their critique is valid. But, if you're an artist who puts your work out in public, then you might run into rude people, and it's important to be able to handle rudeness with grace. I wouldn't necessarily say you have to have a "thick skin" -- heaven knows I don't -- but you need to be able to deal with that sort of thing happening without letting it cripple you, and to be able to not take it personally.

phen 2017-06-21 03:55:04 UTC #14

First, I do agree with the idea that if an artist does not explicitly claim to be looking for in-depth critique, it shouldn't be forced onto them. Taking critique is something that, like art and like any other skill, has to be learned from experience. However, I do not agree with the exclusivity of accepting critique from "in-the-know" sources. Your professors, your peers in the art field, your family and friends can only offer you regurgitated views of rather limited scale (often ones you'd come up with on your own).

By no means should these people be shut out but it's highly damaging to one's growth to refuse critique from ANY pool. Deviantart hobbyists, grandma at the supermarket, little kids on the playground -- if the aim is to expand artistic prowess, it is imperative to keep your perspective wide open. The simplest thing, the smallest remark from the most mad spout can spark imagination and if that's shut out simply because of a misconception that only artists and professors are qualified to critique art, a crucial part of the creative journey would be sorely missed.

Constructive critique is valuable whether it comes from an educated source or not. Collaborative projects are wildly successful ventures with beautiful innovations due to approaches from outside the box.

WintreKitty 2017-06-21 04:33:37 UTC #15

It irks me that critics get such a bad rep a lot of the time that many artists are instantly put on the defensive no matter the form the critiques come in, since they are already expecting to be attacked. What ends up happening is the artist attacks right back, or ignores even the good advice because they are afraid of being told that something they are proud of isn't perfect.

Now, not all artists do this of course, but it makes it difficult for someone who genuinely wants to help to be able to do so if the artist is already blocking out any valuable critiques along with the bad ones.

This is entirely because the amount of negative critiques drowns out the few positive ones. It can become daunting and difficult to even separate the good from the bad at times.

That being said, I think that if you are posting anything on the internet, you should expect criticism. If you don't want criticism, then don't post it. I know it sucks to post something you are proud of on a social media platform and getting those comments that point out something that needs improvement. But I also think that's incredibly valuable. The best way to learn is from those around you. The internet has made is so much easier to gain this knowledge and to learn from mistakes.

There's no way to completely get rid of negative criticism, but your reaction to it is what truly matters. Be able to separate the good from the bad. There will always be bad critiques that will get to you, but it's important not to give up and to prove to them that you can improve and grow. Utilize the good critiques and be motivated to prove the bad critiques wrong.

Simple comment critiques are good, but it's also a great idea to seek out professional critics. Some are good, some are bad. Just do your research and find the ones that you believe would help you in prove the most. Sometimes it's wise to suck it up and take the more negative critiques if you think that critic has the most to offer in terms of future growth.

There are positive critics out there though. You just have to dig around and ask others and see who they would recommend.

Hopefully this helped a little. I apologise for the wordy response.

All the best,

Wintre

spadesart 2017-06-21 05:05:25 UTC #16

i really disagree with cringe comps, especially when their sole purpose is to tear down beginning artists work. i'm not saying you should shower them with nothing but gushy positivity but we should be motivating them instead of telling them their art is 'cancer' and saying they have no place.

my problem with this statement is that that whole thing is up to the artist. not the viewer. some of my first drawings and animations i made are ugly as hell but i was so proud and excited to post them when i first joined deviantart. my old speedpaints were 360p made in moviemaker but i was so happy i figured out how to make one. cringe comps didnt really exist when i first started posting so there was also no sense of fear that so many artists have now.

like yes!! critique young artists to help them but cringe culture is just brutal and mean spirited just so people can feel better about themselves. animation? hard as hell and impressive that kids are at least trying to pursue it at a young age!! ocs? im 100% supportive of just going wild and having fun. ocs are SUPPOSED to be fun and self indulgent!! theyre not hurting anyone!! these kids are posting because they are looking for genuine feedback and because theyre proud to have made something even if to you, may not seem like any effort was put into but may have been a hurdle for them.

again, im not saying to shower them with mushy gushy compliments but we should at least be motivating them instead of laughing at them and tearing them down.

WintreKitty 2017-06-21 05:13:01 UTC #17

When critiquing, a good rule to follow is to compliment it then say where they can improve it further.

spadesart 2017-06-21 05:13:49 UTC #18

yes thats what im saying

isaacfriedman 2017-06-21 05:33:39 UTC #19

I was thinking about that possibility as I wrote that, and honestly, you are 100% right. It's the artist's choice. How is one supposed to know when it is acceptable to post their art? I definitely didn't know either. My comics a year ago are garbage compared to what they are now. My art now will likely be garbage compared to what I do in the future. Four years ago I created some "cringey" fanart that actually got featured as exactly that on a blog dedicated to obnoxiously bad fanart. When you're a kid or new to the online art community, its really hard to know when you're really ready for legitimate criticism. My harsh words were more from a position of experience than mockery as my proportions are still garbage and my composition is inconsistent at best. Thankfully, forums like this one exist in order to get pointers on how to improve.

punkarsenic 2017-06-21 06:41:03 UTC #20

im pretty sure everyones aware that people on the internet are assholes. i dont think it really means that every little kid putting themself out there has to just 'suck it up' when they become a joke for humourless 20yos. its hard, and shouldnt happen, and acknowledging that it shouldnt happen actually makes it a lot easier to deal with.

absolutely, people shouldnt quit over mean comments. but what good does an attitude like yours do?

punkarsenic 2017-06-21 06:46:12 UTC #21

i dunno. i think theres such thing as bad advice - particularly since on places like deviantart theres a trend of all feedback from certain groups being 'this is shit' and 'make the titties bigger.' thats not useful and should be blocked out. dunno about mad grandmas, but sometimes... you just cant get anything from people that dont get it? (children are always helpful tho, they see things different)

and if you have people with art knowledge willing to give you advice and guide your progress, why would you go to a bunch of unkind amateurs?

phen 2017-06-21 07:41:48 UTC #22

Yeah no, you make an excellent point and I agree with the bad advice notion. There's bad advice but it's important to remember that bad advice can come from educated professors and acclaimed art critics just as it can come from deviantart trolls. As some of the others here have said, establishing and reinforcing standards for accepting constructive input is vital to one's art career.

Foundations is critical and I think for anyone starting out, those with an academic background in art are vital contributors for growing artists (especially since everyone is an "amateur" at one point). However, this is a field that draws from many, many sources itself so it can be contradictory and elitist to exclude communities from contributing to the dialogue.

Critique is valuable but ultimately, once established and out on their own, it's up to the artist to gauge what bit of feedback is most valuable. If your intended audience is professors and art critics, then that will be the source of your valuable feedback, bearing in mind this isn't universal since artists have different audiences at which they direct their work/want their work to be acknowledged and successful.

J.Z.Castillo 2017-06-21 07:57:25 UTC #23

I'm my biggest critic, so whatever people tell me I have already beaten myself over 100 times worse hahaha

Honestly I find those memes hilarious because it reminds me of the "cringe" things I used to do, like drawing HUGE kawaii eyes or having that Maximillian Pegasus hairstyle on all my female characters because I thought that was cool.

Just don't take those things seriously, focus on your things and on improving your skills

indagold 2017-06-21 14:28:50 UTC #24

I'm literally just saying in the face of adversity make something good out of it. You can't change what other people think or do, but you can change what you do in these situations.

Lighten up, you silly goose.

heterodont 2017-06-21 16:07:22 UTC #25

Cringe compilations are very rarely actual critique and more harassment than anything else. Critique is supposed to help you improve as an artist - how the hell is "This is terrible lmfao" or any kind of variation of that comment supposed to help? And if the cringe compilation creator or commenter is popular enough, it can lead to people dogpiling on the original artist as well.

Not to mention, the people who make said comments are often also bad at art or not far off from the skill levels of the person they're making fun of. Ofc you don't have to be a chef to tell when the soup is shitty, but it adds on the extra level of "my arts bad but I'm gonna put down other people so I feel better about myself!" I used to enjoy cringe art blogs for a while but as I grew up I just realized I was wasting time I could've spent drawing lol.

There are some cringe blogs or videos or whatever that do at least give some helpful advice, if bad, but it's still better than the people who are just doing it to make fun of others. There was one blog I found where the people were making fun of an oc based off the fact they didn't know that backdrafts were a thing

mechafeedalert 2017-06-22 04:04:35 UTC #27

Some people are just pessimist by nature. I myself with my snobbish elitist thinking, skill notwithstanding, can't help but want to shout out loud "this is straight out garbage" or "this is a drawing only a parent could love", etc whenever I see bad artworks, which seems as abundant as sedimentary rocks on a beach.

I mean in the age of the Internet there's no reason for art to be that bad. You have all the greatest of human knowledge free to access, you have art programs that will stabilize your Parkinson's stroke, you can press the ctrl+z to infinity (or you break your keyboard, whichever comes first), producing bad artworks seems to me like a product of laziness.

Then I took a step back and look at my own shitty art and be like,"yeah I shouldn't say mean things, we should start somewhere". Even pros have a period of bad art that they themselves can't stand looking at.

That said, I think the problem is posting your very early bad art and expect people to say nice things. I mean you don't really need other people to say to you that your art is bad, you yourself can browse a prominent artist within your own artistic style and compare how bad you are right now. Except if you like inflicting yourself with emotional wounds.

Actually I kinda fed up with all the sugar-coating going on with every webcomic forum. Patting at each other's back wouldn't do anyone any good. Every once in a while you need to face the cold hard truth.

Luminosophy 2017-06-22 04:08:56 UTC #28

Pretty much this. I used to frequent an art blog and someone once asked for a critique. Our community didn't care for fluff, we get to the heart of the problem. That doesn't mean insulting, it just means pointing out technical issues without compliments. Well, this upset the person to the point where they became psychologically and mentally unstable. They stalked the blog for 3 years and harassed regulars and myself particularly on anon. They were so unhinged you could tell it was them though. This eventually culminated into them making an ED page about me defaming my art and comics.

3 years later she still stalks my page on occasion but I've made crazy strides in improvement, and herself, none. Why? She spent all those cares channeling her time and energy into attacking people who didn't praise her art rather than just improving it so people would. She still wants to pretend she's a victim of some cyber bullying ring though so too bad for her.

If there's anything I've learned on my time on the internet though, it's that the "outside world" (random internet communities at large) as the worst place to ask for serious critique. Even minus baseless attacks, people don't know what they're talking about half the time and can't discern taste from technical flaws. You also run into people like art students who just started a course and want to pretend they're a master by telling comic artists to "Draw more artistic things" and that the OP should be ashamed because they're "25 and drawing like a child" - legit comment on a subbreddit for comic crits. >: |

If you want serious, useful critiques, find and develop a tight nit group of artist friends who're driven and serious about their work, and learn and grow together.

heterodont 2017-06-22 05:16:28 UTC #29

Except the issue is, not everyone is interested in improving their art. Some people are literally just doing it as a hobby and not interested in utilizing the bountiful amounts of art-related knowledge that can be found on the internet, or not interested in taking it seriously. Some people just do it to relieve stress or get their thoughts out in some tangible way.

Though it does become an issue when it's very clearly Bad Art and the artist is fishing for compliments while screaming at anyone that tries to give them Helpful Advice. Usually, you can tell those types of people vs the former but I don't necessarily think people post their bad art expecting compliments. When I used to post my amateurish art on dA 10 years ago I was just uploading it for the sake of uploading b/c I thought it was fun.

Critique will fall on deaf ears for either group unless they ask for it, so it's not really facing the cold hard truth. If people want to stagnate, then that's their issue. You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink.

mechafeedalert 2017-06-22 06:11:05 UTC #30

Yeah that's my point if they're not at all serious in their art then they shouldn't take issue with anyone not taking their art seriously. I mean they can, and anyone can ridicule their complaint then anyone else can can defend the creators and so on. A circle of life.

Sure cringe compilation is something I don't even know exist until today and I don't think it should exist, the creators of cringe compilation could have better use of their free time than listing comics with bad art. Things like badwebcomicwiki however I find quite accurate and could be used as a reference to improve ones work if they could manage to swim through and occasionally inevitably swallow the Dead Sea's saltiness of personal insults that's thrown together with the constructive criticism.

I'm from a culture that believe salt water heals wound.