May 2022
10 / 31
May 2022
Jun 2022
MartaTod
May '22

The entire indie comics scene is filled with these people. Of several writers who asked me for a collaboration on anthology pitches, competitions and their projects, only ONE asked what my rates are. And only one other said "I don't have the script now but would like to contact you when I do".

No one else has even attempted any talk about how much I'll earn from this. Not even a "hay we can split profits". It's like I'm expected to just say "yay!" and jump into this potentially time wasting project that might give me nothing in return. And it's a lot of time I need to invest. One page can take me from 2-12hours depending on complexity. There's a reason why the industry split the job into pencilers, inkers and colorists. Yet here is some person I never met, asking me to do all of it for free.

I won't even go into how a lot of the publishers and fans act like writers are the main stars; as if comic artists aren't as much as creators as them. Or I'll be ranting till tomorrow. :cry_02:

smokesalty
May '22
darthmongoose

Yes, absolutely!

Writing isn't just coming up with ideas, it's actually implementing them in a way that constructs a good, compelling story and that takes a ton of work! If someone is trying to find an artist and they don't have any previous works- not even a short story or anything I take that as a massive red flag especially if they are also blinded by the idea that they're going to 'get big' with their idea.

People are so worried about idea stealing when a story idea doesn't always equal a good story! (Hell, someone could tell me my comic idea isn't original since "getting stuck in a cult" isn't exactly that unique of an idea- but like the way I've written it is very different to say watching midsommar)

I think there are a lot of people who dream of being a writer or successful webtoon but are not willing to put the work in! I'm always stuck here thinking "If you dreamed about it so much why haven't you been you know... doing it???" If they love writing, there's always the option to write scripts and novels for fun to improve.

I think people like the title of being a writer sometimes, but don't want to sit down and do it.

Surely they care about writing as a craft- or maybe they're only looking for success and want an artist to do it for free- I freel like this is how you get so many writers who want to make another isekai, fantasy, slice of life, etc, because it's popular- not because they love the genres themselves (which have so much to be explored like come on !)

You're telling me artists also do their own writing and are able to get outlines and scripts done for themselves but these people can't even present an example script for someone working for free? It frustrates me because it feels so entitled to expect something like that.

And I can't be the only one who reads their oh so original idea and thinks about how I've seen 50 other webcomics with the same idea :sob::sob:

smokesalty
May '22
RedLenai

These people always swear they're going to be an original I swear!

I've had people come up to me and ask me to make them comic cover illustrations and whole comics and I'm like woah buddy, I'm going to need you to sit down and reconsider. Never once have they mentioned payment!

I think confidence is good- but the fact they have absolutely no experience and think they're going to become famous is so delusional. And the fact they're gonna be putting the least amount of work in and get half of the profit just leaves a sour taste in my mouth

RedLenai
May '22

Exactly, they are too overconfident and self absorbed, like they don't care at all that in the meantime that we're working we need to eat, pay taxes, pay internet, pay services and even our roof and most of the time we're the ones doing all the heavy work!

Tho, I genuinelly believe that their confidence is just superficial, because they get extremely defensive and start insulting when you begin to tackle down all the holes and all the vague aspects of their proposal but you know what is the cherry on top about all this? There were times that I felt like messing around with them because I was really tired of all this bluffing and I've cornered a few, I let them speak, I let them be as delusional as they wanted, I've let them rise their hopes about finally getting an artist that wanted to do their stuff but oh, when I demanded the script for the first chapter, not some novel/narrative/draft document/text, a proper comic script.

They didn't had sh*t

Some even said "yeah, yeah I'll provide it to you during next week!" and they never came back.
Want someone with "professional-like" style? (I hardly believe I'm a professional) Then work, behave and provide like a professional! :joy:

ar-ninetysix
May '22

You ever notice how many of these guys ask that the artist be ok with staying long-term? No clear sense of how long, mind you- just a long time. "I can't believe no one wants to work for me for an indefinite amount of time????"

darthmongoose
May '22
smokesalty

Yeah, this is the issue. They love the idea of being the creator of a popular series, but they don't actually like writing.

All of the professional artists and writers I know are serious nerds about art, writing, comics or all of the above. They can natter on for hours and hours about this stuff, and if you need recommendations for books or tutorials on a specific aspect of those things, they'll be like "Oh! You have GOT to read this book! Ooh, and this blog is amazing! Plus this youtube channel!" They also love to read other novels and comics and analyse them.

Then you get these wannabes who often don't even really read other webcomics. They just read like... one manga or one really popular Korean webtoon and went, "I want to be a famous mangaka/webtoon creator!" They don't read books on narrative, or even watch youtube channels about it, they've never even read a Scott McCloud book... It's like... if you're gonna make comics that make money, like you seriously want to make a career of it, you need to be really devoted to comics, because they're a mega-complex medium to learn, and the audience is spoiled for choice when it comes to seriously excellent titles.

rajillustration
May '22

Just boggles my mind when we're on a website with NOVELS on it but I guess they don't want to write one of those? Like you write, go...go write stuff. No one is stopping you. Saying this as someone who has posted both a comic and a novel to this site, it is so much freakin faster to post an entire novel than to draw an entire novel.

migxmeg
May '22
1
RedLenai

Snarfed my coffee XD what a great turn of phrase.

@ar-ninetysix this one is the real kicker - if you have this big project that you're going to pour effort into (supposedly), (edit: even if you don't care about paying people for work) you should really want to give the other party an incentive to stick around. I'd be extremely nervous to start a big collab with someone I wasn't paying (and paying well) even if I did magically find a person who thought they were up for working for free.

Kuma
May '22

I have flashes of inspiration from time to time.

EncryptedWriting
May '22

I think the main thing here is a lot of writers are very young and inexperienced. They don't simply understand the concept of how much time goes into sketching, linear, flats, shading, text, etc. I won't lie, I was like that too. But I've changed.

I think if a writer and artist are willing to collaborate, with each understanding that this will not be easy, then I understand.

However, when we see writers who come along with very little experience, no finished works, and gives legit no description of a story ... it's hard to be sympathetic.

Also, please, writers gave to realize there should legit be no deadlines. Don't expect artists to work as if it is a full time job. This is a hobby. A side project. Something they do in their free time.

Again, if an artist and writer come together and know what is to happen and the amount of work it takes to produce a comic, even a short one, then that's fine.

For example, I'm saving funds to produce a longer comic, maybe 25-30 full episodes being 50 ish panels. It's not long compared to many other comics, but it certainly isn't something I would post to ask for a collaboration. I've learned from that. And unless an artist is truly looking for a project like that, it is inappropriate to ask that of an artist.

Idk, just my thoughts on it.

PrinceLatte
May '22

Hi, I am MochasDead barista from the underworld, keeper of secrets, and other things that are various and unnecessary to tell you. I am also Prince Latte but we don't mention that.

What about the people that show their work? The people like me that tells the full concept and shows the work they are trying to put toward it, admits there is a dream here and is not trying to guilt trip you or make you feel like your getting something out of it.
There is a large group of people who claim to be writers, so when I post something it gets washed to sea. I show scripts detailed summary's of what I want to work on. How the story will be paced even documents of how I plan on communicating on character deign and the reason why they wear these clothes or look the way they do.

It really shows as well, I'll get the I'm surprised you have this much info there, but no one will be willing to do this work for few (be that very few). That is completely understandable, I don't have the simple romance story with a twist, or the "oh shit I'm in another world now, ain't that whacky?", I created a complex story that's too ambitious to get for charity work.

Just please don't look down on the people who try, the people that post their links to there work https://forums.tapas.io/t/shonen-manga-artist-collab/688064 for example does this seem like I'm doing what was said here ("provide an example of your scripting work which can show your skills in creating scenes, character acting and dialogue? Just saying your idea won't show the quality of your work- people need to see the execution.")

There is a large amount of people who claim they have a story it even annoys me, but they barely put in the work to create the world, characters, power system, clothes, time period, weapons, relationships, sub plots, emotions. They won't put in that much work, [I know because I'm the guy they get to help build it up]. I'm ranting to a bit it seems but, sometimes not everyone can pay and wants to fulfil a passion. Working their hardest and still learning to do better and get to their goal.

Edit: Yes, I know I can make it into a book. I choose not too I have other books being worked on about stories I want into a book. I want certain things to be visual, artist vision, if you know.

375
May '22

THIS. So my best friend is a somewhat popular artist. The amount of people who comes at him asking for free work and the phrase "You'll get exposure if you help me" is ridiculous. It honestly makes me cringe.

margodraws
May '22

Yeah I get the sense that a lot of posters asking to collab are young teens (just a guess) with no idea how much effort longform comics take to produce, and no idea how art careers work. That's not a dig; I remember being young and oblivious, but I learned a lot by doing. The ideal collab for these writers would probably be another young artist with lots to learn and no bills to pay.

When a writer rolls up asking for free work and they're clearly an adult who should know better, that's when I judge them lol.

As for myself, I'm haggard old professional artist, so while I don't mind doing a free sketch here and there, I'm absolutely not interested in picking up a long-term unpaid job working for a faceless stranger, no matter how great their idea is.

PrinceLatte
May '22
EncryptedWriting

I think it's ludacris for people to have deadlines when someone is doing it because they wanted to help you.

If both sides understand the work then, I see no problem but when half the "kids" I use this world lightly. Run around ramped not even knowing what character sheets are and how many panels should go a page, without even having at least a draft comic script. Go back to square 1 and at least learn to see if you are still interested in doing this.

GumshoeComix
May '22

I always assume theyre kids and have never written anything or worked with comics before
so they don't know how draining and time-consuming it can be and how much work goes into not just creating the art but scripting as well.
the people who ask for free art, I assume are just going off an idea, their characters aren't developed yet and neither is their world or plot.

My advice to them would be to learn how to draw. because if their story is good people will typically look past the art. and making comics is really the fastest way to develop your art.

Not to mention if its your FIRST comic, its just not gonna be good by default, so their writings probably not that good to begin with

I do wonder why there isnt some kind of rule against asking for free work though.