I mean, this. My writer is my husband and that's the only reason he can use the right of "I have this idea, but I still need to think about it, so I start telling you something while I am making this puzzle in my head" (because I am always glad to listen to his new ideas), but even he never approaches me with a story without thinking it through aka having the actual plot, beginning, ending, characters development, etc.

Why would anyone want to start drawing a long ass comic for a complete stranger from the internets who doesn't even bother to tell you a synopsis and (let's be frank) most likely never actually wrote a story before, is completely beyond me.

I think with unpaid collabs, the really frustrating thing is that the writer often comes in with absolutely no writing experience, just "I've always dreamed of making a successful Webtoon, but alas, I have no drawing talent, I tried drawing once, and I can't even draw a stick figure ..." and now it's the artist's job to come in like a fairy godmother and make their dreams of being a successful comics writer, that they've put absolutely no work into, happen.

On the show "Dragons Den" (A show where investors listen to pitches and invest if they're interested, I think it's called Shark Tank in the US?) I always remember a frequent thing the Dragons would say was "What's stopping me from just going and making this at my company?" And I think wannabe writers sometimes have some vague fear of people stealing their idea so are very cagey about giving details... but they're not really dealing with the underlying issue of understanding on some level that somebody else could just go and to their idea better than they could. Like, yes, hiding the idea does stop that happening, but it does it in a way that immediately broadcasts "I'm not a very good writer; if somebody stole my idea, they could probably do it better than me."

See, the problem is, the writer needs to be as good, or ideally better and more confident at writing than the artist. Like a lot of artists, I don't feel comfortable labelling myself as a "writer" because I feel like I don't "deserve" that title....but nearly every comic I've ever made, including ones that placed in national competitions, and practically all the most popular ones, including my current webcomic, I both drew and wrote. If somebody's been making comics long enough to get good at drawing them, they may well have racked up quite a lot of storytelling and writing experience. So if the writer hasn't spent equivalent time writing fics, novels, scripts, games or comics... they're often asking somebody more experienced at writing to let them step in and do a potentially worse job. I frequently find myself disappointed by how lacking in dedication a lot of "writers" are in their study of writing and how little they've actually written.

If you want to be a writer, either pay the artist, or work damn hard at writing and studying writing so that you can impress the artist with your abilities and make them feel confident giving you the job of doing the writing, because most comic artists can write...it's just our secondary skill. If you're still less experienced, studied and qualified in your primary skill than the artist is in their secondary one.... why on earth would they want to entrust that job to you!? If the comic needs to sell in order for me to get money via revenue split, it needs to be the best possible comic, so I wouldn't enter an agreement like that if I didn't have faith in the writer's skill and experience.

Thiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiis!

Lmao, why people believe they are in the right to demand any kind of requirement/standard/ability if they are not up for the game either!? Or why they think they are going to succeed in BAM! seconds!?

Oh gosh, this reminded me of when someone contacted me via Twitter, I have never met an aspiring webcomic-artist as dense as a white dwarf star. Imagine you’re approached to make a series “on your free time” for someone who says their series will become an Original just because they think their story is so amazing that they are SURE Webtoon is going to grab it.

Imagine telling them the harsh truth behind the selection process, the whole series-pitching process, what Webtoon looks for, how they respond to you (Like robots or pre-made messages), the non-existen feedback they provide, the “we encourage you to publish your series in canvas, if it becomes popular we’ll come back with a contract for you!” and get told by this person the following…

• I’m going to pitch my series to become an Original, I won’t make anything before it gets some Feedback from the staff because I don’t want to waste time and I want to do things right!
• Ugh I don’t want to publish my series on Canvas, it’ll take lots of time to achieve Ad Revenue or to get a nice following, I don’t have the patience for that
• I don’t want to publish my series on Canvas, I want to save it for the staff because I don’t want anyone to copy or steal it.
• I can’t pay an artist, I can’t make money out of my art and I barely get commissioned once every three months
• You have beautiful art, but you won’t discourage me from becoming an Original just because of your experience. You don’t need a CV, be on Canvas or win a comic contest for the staff to notice you!
• You’re so rude for telling me to get a side job to pay an artist or lawyer in case my story gets stolen, you don’t know anything about copyright and registering a series is just SO expensive and filling DMCA claims are also expensive and a waste of time.
• I won’t get pirated if I became an Original duh, that’s why I’m going to try, I’m sure my method will work and you’ll see you won’t discourage me to achieve it!
• I know Original authors that got hired by Webtoon without being on Canvas, I can’t tell you their names, they are from France, you won’t know them, Google won’t show you results of them

I have experienced meeting lots of amateur/novice artists who want to jump right into commissions without any experience/fanbase/public/portfolio. And in the webcomic community I have find a few authors who said at least ONE of the things on the list, not all of them at once….

Fun thing, this person has already approached me in the past to give them advice about how to get commissioned... they are very amateurish, very novice and it seems they are just starting... and judging by their responses and behaviour... I think they are a child or a very entitled person that believes the world works the way THEY think

The entire indie comics scene is filled with these people. Of several writers who asked me for a collaboration on anthology pitches, competitions and their projects, only ONE asked what my rates are. And only one other said "I don't have the script now but would like to contact you when I do".

No one else has even attempted any talk about how much I'll earn from this. Not even a "hay we can split profits". It's like I'm expected to just say "yay!" and jump into this potentially time wasting project that might give me nothing in return. And it's a lot of time I need to invest. One page can take me from 2-12hours depending on complexity. There's a reason why the industry split the job into pencilers, inkers and colorists. Yet here is some person I never met, asking me to do all of it for free.

I won't even go into how a lot of the publishers and fans act like writers are the main stars; as if comic artists aren't as much as creators as them. Or I'll be ranting till tomorrow.

Exactly, they are too overconfident and self absorbed, like they don't care at all that in the meantime that we're working we need to eat, pay taxes, pay internet, pay services and even our roof and most of the time we're the ones doing all the heavy work!

Tho, I genuinelly believe that their confidence is just superficial, because they get extremely defensive and start insulting when you begin to tackle down all the holes and all the vague aspects of their proposal but you know what is the cherry on top about all this? There were times that I felt like messing around with them because I was really tired of all this bluffing and I've cornered a few, I let them speak, I let them be as delusional as they wanted, I've let them rise their hopes about finally getting an artist that wanted to do their stuff but oh, when I demanded the script for the first chapter, not some novel/narrative/draft document/text, a proper comic script.

They didn't had sh*t

Some even said "yeah, yeah I'll provide it to you during next week!" and they never came back.
Want someone with "professional-like" style? (I hardly believe I'm a professional) Then work, behave and provide like a professional!

This.

THIS.

You ever notice how many of these guys ask that the artist be ok with staying long-term? No clear sense of how long, mind you- just a long time. "I can't believe no one wants to work for me for an indefinite amount of time????"

Just boggles my mind when we're on a website with NOVELS on it but I guess they don't want to write one of those? Like you write, go...go write stuff. No one is stopping you. Saying this as someone who has posted both a comic and a novel to this site, it is so much freakin faster to post an entire novel than to draw an entire novel.

I have flashes of inspiration from time to time.

I think the main thing here is a lot of writers are very young and inexperienced. They don't simply understand the concept of how much time goes into sketching, linear, flats, shading, text, etc. I won't lie, I was like that too. But I've changed.

I think if a writer and artist are willing to collaborate, with each understanding that this will not be easy, then I understand.

However, when we see writers who come along with very little experience, no finished works, and gives legit no description of a story ... it's hard to be sympathetic.

Also, please, writers gave to realize there should legit be no deadlines. Don't expect artists to work as if it is a full time job. This is a hobby. A side project. Something they do in their free time.

Again, if an artist and writer come together and know what is to happen and the amount of work it takes to produce a comic, even a short one, then that's fine.

For example, I'm saving funds to produce a longer comic, maybe 25-30 full episodes being 50 ish panels. It's not long compared to many other comics, but it certainly isn't something I would post to ask for a collaboration. I've learned from that. And unless an artist is truly looking for a project like that, it is inappropriate to ask that of an artist.

Idk, just my thoughts on it.

THIS. So my best friend is a somewhat popular artist. The amount of people who comes at him asking for free work and the phrase "You'll get exposure if you help me" is ridiculous. It honestly makes me cringe.

Yeah I get the sense that a lot of posters asking to collab are young teens (just a guess) with no idea how much effort longform comics take to produce, and no idea how art careers work. That's not a dig; I remember being young and oblivious, but I learned a lot by doing. The ideal collab for these writers would probably be another young artist with lots to learn and no bills to pay.

When a writer rolls up asking for free work and they're clearly an adult who should know better, that's when I judge them lol.

As for myself, I'm haggard old professional artist, so while I don't mind doing a free sketch here and there, I'm absolutely not interested in picking up a long-term unpaid job working for a faceless stranger, no matter how great their idea is.

I always assume theyre kids and have never written anything or worked with comics before
so they don't know how draining and time-consuming it can be and how much work goes into not just creating the art but scripting as well.
the people who ask for free art, I assume are just going off an idea, their characters aren't developed yet and neither is their world or plot.

My advice to them would be to learn how to draw. because if their story is good people will typically look past the art. and making comics is really the fastest way to develop your art.

Not to mention if its your FIRST comic, its just not gonna be good by default, so their writings probably not that good to begin with

I do wonder why there isnt some kind of rule against asking for free work though.

I would hesitate to assume most of them are kids, TBH. Some definitely are, and some state that upfront, in which case I will laugh a little but I won't judge them too harshly. But I'm reasonably confident that A LOT of people going around looking for artists are people who have jobs or are in college (many even state as much), in which case they should absolutely understand the value of time. In fact the WORST offenders when it comes to entitlement and general butthurt were definitely all adults, at least by legal definitions (kinda hard to take someone seriously as an adult when they're throwing childish tantrums about not getting free labour).

My advice to any writer looking to partner with a "good" artist but absolutely cannot afford one - get published in prose first. No they're not the exact same skill set, but IMO (as someone who writes both prose and comics) writing prose is more difficult since you actually have to do the artistic side of the writing and not just the technical. You can always learn how to adapt your writing to comics, but it's much harder to go from comics to prose. So go and demonstrate that you do know how to write. Write a novel. Sell it. Show that you are indeed a professional writer. Set a few hundred dollars aside from your advance/royalties to pay for sample pages. I guarantee you will have a MUCH easier time finding both an artist and an audience for your work.

"But wait!" you say. "Getting published is actually really really hard!"

Yes. But so is learning how to draw at a professional level.

I wanted to say something about this for a while but i never did because i'm not artist so i thought it isn't my place to speak, but i do see wayyyyyyyyyyyyyy more "ideas" that need artist than i see artists wanting story idea ( i saw i think one or two, but they wanted to practice and said so)

Yeah it's not really one needing the other it's the fact that one is "easily accessible than the other". By easy people think putting some words and name to a document makes it a story.

Same with good art = good story which is not true. Some artist do gain a superiority thing where it turns to you need me I don't need you.

Learning to draw and write well are hard and amazing skills to have. Through out all of history these two things have worked together and will continue to create beauty.

Thank you, I found someone to help with character sheet concepts they adore the story. However I might hit a road block when it comes to the actual manga. I believe you can do it as well man, someone with common interest will come out there. Saying no one is willing to is already an injustice to yourself, it is not a guarantee. Some times it takes two and they'll be someone out there who would love to help. Both sides an artist can point out story things to the writer and vice versa. Their art style doesn't have to be as breathtaking and wonderful as Kentaro Miura. I still learn to draw, Why? just make money and pay someone right?

I have visions so vivid and bright it's painful I can't draw them like I wish too, so I practice and I keep working art takes time. PEOPLE MUST LEARN THAT, the art of story telling takes time.

"Writers", jump to making comics to fast, same as artist, I said it ounce I'll say it again. So what you have some characters, you have a vague storyline. What are you trying to say with your story what makes it special.

People constantly crap on works, mha, jojo, demon slayer, one punch man, naruto, attack on titian the list goes on. They aren't these gods of story telling, the use tropes as well. It's how they structure things and misdirect you or even sometimes giving you what you expected. Most of all it's the passion put behind the creators.

Over and over I tired to help people on comic teams who I thought were passionate like me about being a mangaka. It was all fake, the realize the process then dash, they don't take it seriously or most of the work is being carried by me. They treat the artist paid or not like they are just tools, same can go for the other way around. If I'm working with someone I want someone who appreciates nd is willing to input and give ideas.

I am extremely ranting right now and I am sorry about that to wrap this up. Art and story work in harmony. Don't doubt your work but take criticism, and try it even if you think it won't work who cares. you try and keep trying until you can. Give people a reason too choose you.

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