INK Concerns (with MATH!)

[michaelson]

I’ll look into the mechanics of how exactly the transaction works and outline the flow to you tomorrow after I verify with our dev team (it’s currently after hours for us).

As for the value of 1 ink - we don’t disclose this information as it does vary - some countries implement different systems that tax readers which impacts the overall unit cost.

[michaelson]

I wouldn’t categorize those estimates as accurate or reflective of our revenue numbers. Those also do not factor in app performance (I believe).

[silverraven0]

As I'm not a math genius and pretty much getting confused with the numbers, here's some quote for you by other users that self calculated it :

Got a Tipping Comic? Share here!

Personally, I estimate that 100 coins roughly equals $.08

1,250 coins roughly equals $1.00 USD

However, artists get about 55% of revenue from coins bought in the store (30% to app fees 15% to Tapas for hosting). So keep in mind if a reader pays $5 worth of coins to tip you, you're only getting $2.75 of that. I recommend tippers donate to patreons/paypals instead of buying coins and to earn coins instead by watching ads, since artists get about 80-85% from that.

This is all just rough numbers that I've notice.

Tipping fees are getting higher and higher?

A bigger cut is taken from bought coins because of the Apple fee that Tapastic has no control over. It breaks down 30% to Apple + 10-15% to Tapas in fees for bought coins.

For earned coins, there's only the Tapas cut of 10-15% taken out.

Try to get the word out to your readers that to truly get the most supportive bang for their buck it's preferable that they earn coins through watching ads and it's free for them. Win/Win

Or if they want to spend money on you, recommend donating through patreon/paypal/or other donation site where you'll get the full amount of that donation.

TIPPING IS HERE! You're gunna want to get in on this

Coins earned are worth more than coins bought so it'll be hard to say exactly what 1 coin is worth. Earned coins are worth more because Tapastic doesn't have to pay a fee on them like the bought coins.

However, I noticed that a 50 coin donation is worth about .04 cents and 100 is .08 cents.

TIPPING IS HERE! You're gunna want to get in on this

Hm, just from looking at my balance details, from a person that toss 100 coins at me today - I earned .08 cents

if 100 coins = .08 cents$5 from the shop buys 5000 coins5000/100 = 5050*.08= 4

A creator would roughly get $4 by the looks of it. Which if that's true really isn't a bad cut for Tapastic to take from it.

TIPPING IS HERE! You're gunna want to get in on this

Here's the unofficial fee schedule for Tapas Coin Tips. Tapastic receives approximately a 15% convenience fee on all tips, regardless of their source. This fee helps offset development costs related to creating the program as well as hosting and logistics related to keeping the watch-to-earn network up and running. There is also a 30% Apple/Google fee for coins that are purchased through the store, which is a flat rate that Google/Apple charges anyone using their sales platform. This cost is simply being passed from Tapas onto the tip receiver without any additional mark up.

So worst case scenario, a creator will only receive 55% of their total tips.

Considering that in the print publishing industry Amazon/B&N/"retailers" take approximately 60% and Ingram/Baker&Taylor/"distributors" take an additional 10%, receiving 55% on Tapas is quite progressive. Plus you aren't out offset printing or freight costs.

TIPPING IS HERE! You're gunna want to get in on this

Let me explain my logic: I previously requested once or twice a month. Since tapas staff doesn't have an official schedule up for when they handle the transfers, these requests were a COMPLETE chancetaker. So sometimes I would make a request and get it handled within the promised 5-7 or 7-10 (can't remember which) days. Sometimes I would catch it on a bad time (assumingly right after they last handled the transfers) and it would take an insane amount of time for some reason.

What this resulted in is that some months I would be in the minus big time, and other months I would make profits that were huge compared to previous months just cause I had a lucky transfer and an old transfer that ended up being handled at last. Or, in simple language: Month 1 = Half a month's earnings or less, Month 2: Nearly two months worth of tapastic money transferred lolwat.I can't take chances like this since, I don't know about your country. but here in sweden we have preliminary tax. Meaning we pay tax each month, and as a company owner I have to estimate my own yearly income and it is then paid based upon that. I NEED a certain amount of money in order to pay preliminary tax, and it's preferrable in the calculations if the income doesn't jump up and down like that.This is probably (or well not probably, I've seen people mention this side of the issue) an even bigger problem for those who don't still live with their parents. Some months they might have issues paying their bills or certain expenses due to the transfers being jumpy and weird. Mainly people who have multiple income sources and need each one to work as it should.

Tapas staff need one or multiple of the following:An officially available schedule over their transfer handlingsAssistants who can handle the transfers regularilyOr just an automatic system.

I'm mentioning this because it's been an issue already before, but a manageable one since tapastic has only been a tiny spit in the ocean of most artists' incomes. Now it's climbing up to a level where it could become the main income source for many of the more active artists. That's great, and is probably what they've been attempting to achieve or at least get close to. Especially since it makes them a valuable competitor to Webtoon when it comes to their artists actually making a living off of their webcomics. However, if they want it to work that way, they need to fix the transfer issue.

I like tapastic a lot as a website, I like their staff and how they listen to the people who use their site, I like the changes they keep making (which is a biggie because tapastic is probably the only website I can think of that IMPROVES when it makes changes), and I want them to KEEP improving. Which is why I point out things that are broken so they can be fixed.

I also understand if it's been extra difficult to handle the transfers lately due to a lot of focus being on implementing and improving the tipping system as well as adding creators to it, but this is kinda why most sites have automatic transfers...

As for the fees on our tips, I think it's only fair and reasonable that they take some of the money to keep their business going. Let's think of tapas as something we co-work with to work towards success both for ourselves, and for them. Basically, if the whole community and the site flourishes, so will our individual art businesses.

TIPPING IS HERE! You're gunna want to get in on this

Edit; I just requested a transfer x.x the difference between balance and available is indeed the fees. Quite a lot I must say, it's about 25% fees that drop off our tips x.x

Here is the fee schedule:

-30% Purchased Coins-0% Earned Coins-15% Tipping Fee

So if someone buys 100 coins and gives you 100 coins, your actual take home coinage is 55 because 30 coins went to Google/Apple and 15 coins went to Tapas. Google/Apple charges 30% fee to everyone who uses them, whether Tapas or Pokemon GO. This is also why Costco can sell Google Play and iTunes cards for 18% off face value, because there's still 12% margins.

Meanwhile if someone earns 100 coins (via watching videos) and gives you 100 coins, your actual take home coinage is 85 because 15 coins went to Tapas.

15% may sound like a lot, but consider that Tapas has 6+ months of developer time invested into the program, plus server demands, ongoing logistics of having an ad network, processing payments to creators, etc. All of that requires making payroll. Tapas also had to acquire the capital to start through preferred funding so it could get the program going and has to repay that. Plus, Tapas is pouring a lot of the money back into developing more features and marketing themselves, so that creators can get even more tips. There is one staff member who is solely dedicated to growing the site. His title is Senior Director of Growth and he's hard at work behind the scenes doing what it takes to make sure Tapas grows more and more each month so that creators here can have a bigger and better audience.

The 15% fee is money well spent.

This is back when support are called tipping and inks were called coins.

Further reading here. it is a massive thread so :

https://forums.tapas.io/t/tipping-is-here-youre-gunna-want-to-get-in-on-this/15547

I remember that michaelson (?) once replied that at some point, they need to pay the fee for sending the payout from their own pocket because of the difference in exchange value on PayPal, but I can’t find it now.maybe my memory just made it up, idk.

My reply won’t help at anything I think, lol.

[colinmooredraws]

I remember that michaelson (?) once replied that at some point, they need to pay the fee for sending the payout from their own pocket because of the difference in exchange value on PayPal, but I can’t find it now.maybe my memory just made it up, idk.

Michaelson literally replied here. Just above you.

Paypal's rate is 2.9% + 30 cents. The lowest on my spreadsheet was 4%. Everything I have done is based on USD so there is no exchange rate involved, beyond USD to Ink.

Tapas is already taking a 15% cut at the end on top of app or website processing fees. Which would more than cover Paypal's fees. Which are also taken by Paypal when the money goes into your account there. This is about the dramatic shifts in value from purchase to value in an artist's support account. Please see my spreadsheet posted above.

[jensrichard77]

I give up. Not even the CEO has a simple answer to your simple question.

I’m just gonna do the ”Lalala” and pretending I’m not getting scammed by Tapas.
Because in the end I get paid more here than I ever would have if I tried to get my supporter over at Patreon or Ko-Fi

[colinmooredraws]

I give up. Not even the CEO

Michaelson is not the CEO. It says right there next to his name. Senior Editor in Chief. The CEO is Chang Kim.

He has not yet provided a full answer and said he would follow up once he has the information.

[silverraven0]

I'm... not going to pretend I understand because I didn't lmfao.

My English comprehension is on the far left so yeah, I don't get it.

What I want to point out from that sentence is that they literally need to pay from their own side to sent the money to the creators, and that is. It might not even be true as I'm not that trusting if my memory.

And I did say that my reply might not help at any rate, so I'll just gonna head out and wait for Michael's reply later.

[jensrichard77]

Michaelson is not the CEO.

Can’t get that right even
I’m so sorry for all my nonsense. I do hope you figure this out.

[Larslaustsen]

@jensrichard77
NO APP TO InK!!!
What will we add?
No ink to the App

(I have started it, I maybe make a flag and scratching around... Meow)

[droidmonkey1]

I may be wrong, but I started to get ink lately and from simple math, each ink I got was worth about $0.00083 (divided the amount of money in the amount of ink).
to get the $25 threshold you need about 30,100 ink.
I don't know if need to reach $25 after Tapas cut or not.

[colinmooredraws]

@jensrichard77NO APP TO InK!!! What will we add?

If you want to start a rallying cry about website vs mobile, please move it to another thread.

each ink I got was worth about $0.00083

Thank you for the additional numbers. That is very nearly the numbers I got from what others have said. I had wanted to know how much Ink it would take to even reach $25 which led me down this weird road. My estimate had been 31,250 based on 1 ink being $0.0008.

[Larslaustsen]

Okay no humor here... bye

[michaelson]

At what stage does the 30% come out for Apple or Google? The dashboard for support suggests it comes in the same phase as the 15% to Tapas.

Apologies for the delay.

So, if a reader buys Ink from the iOS or Android store, and supports a creator for 100 Ink, Google or Apple (respectively) would take 30% of that 100 Ink. Then Tapas would take 15% of the remaining 70 Ink, which would be 10.5 Ink in this case (rounded down to 10 Ink), so the Creator would receive 60 Ink from that transaction. Hope that clarifies things.

Michaelson is not the CEO.

Not yet. wink wink

[colinmooredraws]

So, if a reader buys Ink from the iOS or Android store, and supports a creator for 100 Ink, Google or Apple (respectively) would take 30% of that 100 Ink. Then Tapas would take 15% of the remaining 70 Ink, which would be 10.5 Ink in this case (rounded down to 10 Ink), so the Creator would receive 60 Ink from that transaction. Hope that clarifies things.

This I already knew, the 30% to the app provider comes out before Tapas takes a cut. But does it come out before the user who purchased it even gets their ink? IE They pay for 100 Ink but they're given 70?
Does it come out when they give it to an artist? IE They donate 100 and the artist gets 70.
Or does it come out when the artist cashes out?

According to the balance details page, it comes out at the same phase as cashing out.

My primary concern her is with transparency of where money is going and the fees taken out. I understand that you can't assign a set value to the Ink because there's a lot of currencies at play. But if there is a still at least an approximate value of any kind on a per-ink basis, no matter what that amount is, something isn't adding up here.

[michaelson]

This I already knew, the 30% to the app provider comes out before Tapas takes a cut. But does it come out before the user who purchased it even gets their ink? IE They pay for 100 Ink but they're given 70?

No, they're given the full 100 Ink, the fee is factored in when the transaction hits so that they don't incur the fee on their end. The function is how I outlined it in my previous answer - the reader, in this case, buys Ink from the app store, chooses to Support for X amount of Ink, during that transfer from reader to creator, the fee is incurred.

[colinmooredraws]

during that transfer from reader to creator, the fee is incurred.

Okay, so Reader gives 100 ink to the Creator, Creator receives 70 Ink.

By this, Creator never sees that 30% at all. So why then does the balance details page imply it is taken out after the Creator receives it but before they cash out? Here it is listed as Amount > Fees + Tapas Share > Creator share.

[michaelson]

By this, Creator never sees that 30% at all. So why then does the balance details page imply it is taken out after the Creator receives it but before they cash out? Here it is listed as Amount > Fees + Tapas Share > Creator share.

I think that's based on your interpretation of the language. If you feel that there is a better way to phrase it we are open to suggestions.

[colinmooredraws]

I think that's based on your interpretation of the language

Money really isn't a matter of interpretation, and I am asking you what the specific flow is. This is what I meant about transparency. So if I have it wrong, please tell me what is correct.

The Balance Details page, as pictured above, has 3 columns that deal with dollar amounts. Amount, Estimated fees, Creator's share. In the second column, clicking the question mark expressly states that those fees are both the transaction fee based on where the ink was purchased and Tapas' share.

So with that set up it goes as follows:

Amount - Fees = Share

Meaning the entire flow is simply:

Purchase >> Give = Amount - Fees = Share

But by what you have said that is incorrect and it goes:

Purchase >> Give - Transaction Fee = Amount - Tapas Fee = Share

[rainbowolfe]

But by what you have said that is incorrect and it goes:

Purchase >> Give - Transaction Fee = Amount - Tapas Fee = Share

No, I'm pretty sure what's being said is that, even though the initial 30% is taken out immediately when the transaction is done in the app (ie, the user giving ink to an artist). the amount that shows up under "Amount" shows the full amount given from the supporter to the artist. Then, what's taken by both the app store and Tapas is shown under the "Fees" column in one go. the 100 ink being bought is worth a full hundred when it is purchased, but when it is spent, it becomes worth less than 100 ink because that is when the fees kick in.

[colinmooredraws]

It can't be taken out immediately then also show at the end. That isn't how math works.

Either it is taken out immediately, impacting the value of the ink itself and therefor the creator never sees that fee, OR it is taken out at some point when it is in the creator's possession.

It cannot be part of person A's transaction but show up as being deducted from Person B's transaction.

If I get prints made, any fees I'm charged for additional processing or taxes isn't going to appear itemized when I sell them. Just like when the prints are made they don't itemize fees they were charged on the paper and ink. That isn't how financial transactions work.