Jan 2020
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Feb 2020
Feb 2020
baasinsimple
Feb '20
1

Well, disability within itself is just a term used to identify a problem one may have due to a condition, I have early onset arthritis, though that's not the official name, and I can't draw for very long because of it. Hell every single time I move my hands in a certain way, it sounds like wood's cracking inside my body, considering that, in some way it's just a "disability", because I have the inability to do certain things as quickly as others.

For Aspergers it may be considered a disability because you miss out on social ques and other things that come from being on the spectrum, but it doesn't exactly limit most people, of course I can see how being considered disabled in some way can be offensive but the term is still medically applicable in most countries, since the brain is just wired differently, that may hamper certain aspects of a person's life. Hence, dis-able. Or that's the reasoning, I personally just kind of own the fact that I can't do certain things as well as others, but that may be harder for others.

NickRowler
Feb '20
unknown_user

This is not true. Bipolar disorder can be very disabling for those who do not have access to proper treatment. It is not really something that is treated and gone forever, it is more like it is managed so that someone can function normally. There are people who have found a plan/treatment so that they can function normally (or at least seem to from an outside perspective), but that doesn't mean that the bipolar is gone, it just means that person can just manage it better. I am saying this as someone who has a brother with bipolar and knows how it can effect interactions, schooling, living environment, etc.

Iris-Grimoire
Feb '20

My parents self-diagnosed me for Aspergers some years ago and for a while it was pretty bad to have them suddenly treat me differently for something they had no evidence for and changed nothing. That disappeared and reappeared recently when they started acting like me having aspergers meant I knew how to teach to special needs kids (job offer) and "learn their priceless experiences", and I had to put my foot down and ask my psychologist for advice.
She explained she never even tried to diagnose me because that would happen with even more people and I don't even show most symptons(they're a bit more like schizoid disorder), and if that label was going to cause them to treat me as blessed indigo child or whatever as a graduated adult, I really was better off without any conclusions and just treatment for each behavior problem.

Sometimes a condition needs help - a bipolar person might suffer and lose opportunities without treatment for example - and you DO need to accept it as a disorder because it is something that's causing you to clash with healthy self-image, relationships with other people, etc. But also, sometimes it's not enough of an impact that you really need to put that label front and center, with it causing even bigger relationship problems. It changes from person to person, really.

unknown_user
Feb '20

It's a disorder.
BUT IT'S NOT A DISABILITY.
You CAN go to doctor and try to pick up an appropriate treatment plan. This disorder is known for a long enough, so there are many meds for it nowadays. If you'll not give up, you have a high chances to find a med, which will mitigate it up to full remission.

Azifri
Feb '20
1

Mental health conditions can be life long disabilities, and it's even specifically stated by the laws of many countries so people can be covered by their respective disability assistances. Disorder is just another term for health condition, and the brain is just another organ in out bodies. Another term used is psychiatric disability.

indagold
Feb '20
1
unknown_user

People within the neurodivergent/differently abled movement have constantly told me I should enjoy my disability, that I should embrace it and other horribly toxic ideals i've experienced for years, why I'm a strong advocate against the movement because disabilities aren't diversity or "being unique". And bipolar is a goddamn disability and its there forever, it impairs my ability to function and it screws up my quality of life. I literally said my disability puts me at extreme risk of dementia compared to the normal population, that is very much debilitating lol

It doesn't matter if you decide if you're not disabled, it's now affecting mental health advocation. People are spreading the idea past autism into more severe disorders like schizophrenia. I see this on mental health forums all the time how its just "a different way of thinking" for people who have chronic illnesses.

:edit: also most bipolar meds do not work a lot and even when they work they either only work 50% or mitigate enough to function properly but you will experience cognitive decline that cannot be treated (like memory loss). and every manic episode you get can cause significant brain damage.

unknown_user
Feb '20

Bipolar disorder, as well as all other mental disorders, can be expressed in different degree. If its not so critical, and thus if person can mitigate it to function well enough with meds or anything else, I don't find it a disability.

vothnthorvaldson
Feb '20

I think the issue here is the definition of a disability changes depending on the context.

And disability does not necessarily means not being able at all, especially with this type of conditions.

There are disabilities that are very clear to define (eg. Paraplegia due to trauma, where the loss of function is easy to assess, and where improvement, if any, is slow and progressive, so that regain of function is also easy to assess), and other conditions where the disability is less easy to assess.

Also, indeed, a disability can be overcome. And when it is, it's understandable that the person does not consider it a disability anymore (although technically, it is still here, but overcoming it is like gaining an extra ability, putting back the ability/disability balance to neutral so to speak).
That's how I feel with dyslexia. It threatened badly my early education, but the tactics I found to work around it actually helped me with learning other languages. But, I still struggle with dyslexia, especially in my first language. It could have been a huge handicap, but it ended up being sort of neutral in the balance advantages/disadvantages.

However, with autism, and in my specific case, the advantages or extra abilities are inexistant. If I really want to search for some, it may have been helpful to get a doctorate even if I have a super super defective memory, because I'm naturally very analytic from as long as I can remember, and I've seen that linked to autism. But I can't use my degree because I can't work in a team...

Ultimately, it's to each to decide what constitutes a disability.

skicoak
Feb '20

To a personal degree, that's true.

But remember disability, and providing options to accommodate said disabilities, is largely a legal definition in relation to the larger society.

vothnthorvaldson
Feb '20

Oh, sure!
But I felt we were discussing personal perception more than legal matters in this thread.

However, these aspects are certainly linked. There must be a good deal of people who feel they should be legally considered disabled (justified or not) and are not; while other will refuse any help even if they are entitled to it, for different reasons. I have a good panel of cases in my close circle, I could say I'm one too.

unknown_user
Feb '20

It's about, will people at work perceive me as disabled or as asshole. And I prefer them to perceive me as an asshole. :smirk:

indagold
Feb '20
skicoak

And if we want to go as far, Scientific diagnostics already exist with years of research behind them. Arguing over what constitutes as a disability is like arguing over what constitutes as a state of matter or what constitutes as different species of finch. Unless you're a doctor or a scientist you can't really decide on it. Disability isn't an ideology.

vothnthorvaldson
Feb '20

Ah, that's my field! The concept of species is very arguable! Very, very arguable, and it's not something set in stone. It varies.. depending on context, like disability is. (and many diagnoses evolve, both on a individual patient level and on a medical classification level).
Biology can't be handled like physics.

skicoak
Feb '20

The majority of my experience within this field/debate comes from being a maintenance supervisor in the apartment industry and how we would have to adapt various units based on the needs of the incoming residents in regards to disabilities. At that time, there were very strict federal laws we naturally abided by. Then, there were legally tricky gray areas corporate wanted us to dance around, if possible. And then there were circumstances you just reasonably couldn't meet the requests for.

A bizarre set of circumstances had me taking night classes for sign language (and admittedly not doing well at all) while sets of lawyers argued if my writing notes while doing work orders met the standards for communication with a hearing impaired couple who had recently moved in. It's a weird thing to ask a guy who's primary job was tightening things and unclogging plumbing to potentially learn multiple language skills to do that.

This kinda goes to the middle of the argument...would it be reasonable to expect an office of traditional tech people to learn how to effectively communicate without social/emotional cues that create issues for neural atypical co-workers? I know there's no reasonable argument not to TRY but like my crappy sign language...intent does not equate to execution.

unknown_user
Feb '20

But isn't it cool, that you know sign launguage now? :sunglasses:

:head_bandage: If only I know, how it really turns out... probably I should ask people, who tried to receive that accomodation to learn, how it's executed? :thinking: For now and for me personally, I think that it's better to experience difficulties and being got wrong by colleagues, than to receive inadequate perception. Because it's the worst.

skicoak
Feb '20

In case I didn't make it clear, I can't... under any definition...claim to know sign language. I never even got good at spelling things out. I was the worst at it.

I think the key takeaway here is that's a personal decision for you that doesn't always equate for all people or all parties involved.

I had empathy for that hearing impaired couple...but it didn't prevent me from experiencing some real stress because I wasn't able to sign out toilet flange/wax ring properly in front of a guy who was pursuing legal damages against my employer.

vothnthorvaldson
Feb '20
unknown_user

I don't have an issue with being perceived as intellectually disabled, because it comes with the advantage of being always ahead of others. People think you don't understand things and are so prone to underestimate you, which gives a big advantage as they never see you coming.
But I understand it may be difficult for the pride.

For me, what I really, really hate is how I'm constantly perceived as a poser or a snob.
It's a huge, daily, struggle to try to build bridges with people when my interests are so different. Being constantly told that I can't really be interested in this or that, or that I do it to attract attention is extremely insulting.

DiegoPalacios
Feb '20

Personally i don`t see asperger as a disability per se, but more as a combination of advantages and disadvantages in developing different skills that is different from the average. The thing is that most of the time social norms are not explained.

The people with asperger i`ve met in real life may struggle noticing certain social cues or expectations, but when i explained them the situation, they handled it way better.