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Ayumi
May '21

Hi!
I would like to ask your opinion. My friend told me about her story she is planning, and mentioned that she would like to have a black character who has white hair, and her name would be Shiro, which means white in japanese. I told her that I think maybe it is not the best choice, because some reader would possibly misunderstood it. She is also uncertain about if it is right to use this name, but she is too shy to ask others opinion here :grin: So I ask it instead of her. What do you think? Is it racist, or we overthink it?

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    May '21

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    Jan '22
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cyborgmermaid
May '21

In my opinion it isn't inherently racist however, having a black/dark skinned character with blonde/white hair to make them stand out is a tired trope. That being said I personally DO have black characters with white hair but I balanced it by having many black characters with all kinds of "unnatural" hair colors.

As far as the name is this character half Japanese or lives in Japan and was given that nickname? If not, you may want to consider giving her a name that means white like Kei, Bianca, or Livana, rather than just the word "white" in another language. If you go to babynames.com they have a search feature where you can look up names by their meaning.

Wumbl
May '21

The name isn't inherently racist, but it is very generic and kind of laughable. (I say this as an asian japanese-speaker) Are they Japanese? Even then, having just a colour as your name is a bit ridiculous. Even in "different cultures" we don't just name our children after their hair colour or whatever. They're not a dog.

Also the "black character with light hair" trope is considered to be annoying because it implies a black/brown character is only palatable if they're offset by traits that are typical to white people (light hair, blue eyes etc) - it's not inherently racist but is a tired and unpleasant trope that people of colour are sick of seeing. (EG. as a dark-skinned asian I am sick of darker-skinned asian characters having white lipstick and hair. it makes me very uncomfortable)

KelheorRegular
May '21

Please don't use baby names.com, it's a site that has zero real information :information_desk_person:
I don't think it's racist, but like, so many cool and interesting Japanese names, naming her Shiro...why? Is having something white is her only characteristic?

Wumbl
May '21

Those characters are explicitly Japanese though. There's a reason they have those names - also Shiro from Deadman Wonderland isn't a normal human being and so is not subject to normal naming conventions.

Actual normal people born in Japan wouldn't be named "Shiro" - those characters are removed from reality on purpose. It's a literary device to show how abnormal and otherworldly they are.

Do not use TV shows that are purposefully cartoonish / edgy as support for what normal naming conventions are... especially when dealing with asian vs non-asian authors (or japanese-speaker authors) it's really ridiculous. It's normal for asian authors to name our characters ridiculous things for symbolism / poetic reasons. It's not normal for westerners to thoughtlessly throw random japanese words around to look quirky and cool.

neichasart
May '21

How old is your friend?

Naming non japanese characters japanese names always comes off as "Things a middle schooler weeb would do".
If it's a fantasy type setting I guess you could get away with it. But I still fail to see the point. I personally name characters based off their family, where they're from, culture etc. Because I feel like a name is a great way to build upon a character's history.
But that's mostly a thing when you're using our world as a setting.

I don't know if I'd call it racist per se, but it's not going to serve the story in a meaningful way. It's maybe a little distasteful?

I'm white though so I'm not qualified to say something is or isn't racist.

StuffingPuffin
May '21

It’s not racist, but it’s not original. That’s okay though, as long as she isn’t writing with the intent to be published with a traditional company.

That being said, there are other issues that may arise, but it depends on the target audience and platform.

domisotto
May '21
Wumbl

This reminds me how my mother got her name. When she was born, she had a head full of hair, so her excited father was going, “Oh, look at this! She’s a girl, and we need a ribbon to tie all this hair, and it’s dark like a magpie.” And when he said ‘magpie’ there is a name that sounds like a magpie, but doesn’t mean magpie. And it stuck.

Something like that makes a great backstory, with a family dynamic imo, and enriches the story.

bluejamtoast
May '21
Wumbl

It's normal for asian authors to name our characters ridiculous things for symbolism / poetic reasons. It's not normal for westerners to thoughtlessly throw random japanese words around to look quirky and cool.

?????
It depends on the target market/genre the story is for but both do it. The cartoons I grew up watching had abnormal protagonist names lol

That could be the same style op's friend is framing their story in. A purposely cartoonish anime style

Also Japanese creators have used quirky random foreign language names for again stylistic purposes
Eg Hamatora where the characters are Birthday, Art, Three, Ratio, Moral etc abnormal english names or 91 Days with weird Italian names off the top of my head

It may be a stylistic intentional choice

Also its not thoughtless if there is a reasoning behind the name

Wumbl
May '21
domisotto

See I like that! It's so much more personalised rather than just naming the child a colour.

domisotto
May '21

My grandfather died before I was born, but that one story made me love him. :sob:

Wumbl
May '21
bluejamtoast

You have to understand that when working with another language, things are different.

The naming / writing conventions and tropes used by japanese authors are inherently different to how westerners make their choices. The cartoons you watched growing up had "abnormal" names by english-speaking standards not by the standards of asian authors. They're not the same.

Naming a non-japanese character a blatantly japanese name stands out, obviously. It's not good to paint things with broad brush-strokes, nor to speak over asians when we're trying to educate you about why something makes us uncomfortable. It's thoughtless, not because there's """no meaning""" but because it's literally just the name of the character's hair colour. That's thoughtless unless you're looking to write something comedic / purposefully strange. You're operating on the defensive for something you don't even know... When western authors name their non-asian characters random japanese words it makes asian people feel uncomfortable.

bluejamtoast
May '21

But why do you make the assumption of the type of genre/story OP's friend is trying to tell idgi?

The naming / writing conventions and tropes used by japanese authors are inherently different to how westerners make their choices. The cartoons you watched growing up had "abnormal" names by english-speaking standards not by the standards of asian authors. They're not the same.

What is the difference?

*For the example I gave Hamatora the characters are all Japanese btw with quirky english names

Wumbl
May '21

I mean you're making an assumption.

I'm literally not, whatsoever, because I'm epxlaining how it can be offensive within certain contexts but not others. If the character is A. asian and B. intended to not be taken dead serious, yes it's fine. However OP said the character was black, and never said anything about them being even remotely asian.

If you're not picking up the nuances of what I'm saying that's on you, sorry. I'm trying to make them clear.

I'm just trying to raise a point of why asian people don't like certain patterns in projects made by weebs, (literal weebs - weeaboos) and why it's important to be aware of it.

ar-ninetysix
May '21
1

Aye, if you absolutely must include the color somewhere in the name, you don't have to just use the color lol

There's already existing names with colors or similar ideas to color used within their kanji like Shirogane and Kageyama and Aomori and if I'm right those names can be roughly translated to "white iron/blade", "shadowy mountain", and blue forest".

You can also take a look at how actual Japanese names are put together with their kanji and try coming up with one on your own with its own reasonable pronunciation, but please, I promise it won't hurt to put a little more effort than Google Translate

Edit: The comment's aimed at your friend btw please excuse my usage of "you"

azzy-m
May '21

I feel like having a black character with white/light colored hair isn't racist on its own (though as previously mentioned, it's a tired trope) but the name.... uhhhh. Yea, it's lazy at most, and I think it would be considered insensitive by others.

If I were your friend, I'd have the name be something representative of the character and/or their personality and/or also search for actual Japanese names. I have a character in one of my comic ideas named Lilith Crawford, Lilith meaning "ghost, night monster" and Crawford meaning "ford of the crows" - and that's just for English names. Japanese names have way more creative name meanings, trust me.

If other black people (as I'm not black, nor Japanese) would have a problem with the "black person with white hair" trope, I'd just have that character have black hair and black features, but have their clothes with a heavily white color palette. Seriously, black characters look great with a white color palette without having to do anything to hair or eye color.

jkb4753
May '21
Wumbl

@Prince_Wumbl These posts explain cultural appropriation in a way that I personally could never hope to achieve. Like, I might quote these to my writer friends later. Its hard to explain in a way that people find valuable but you did that for me today. I am 100% convinced after reading that even if it's not a racist trope, its insensitive to exoticize a character's physical appearance. As though looks, including race, are the extent of that character's personality.

@neichasart well said. Naming a character is an opportunity for worldbuilding. If you use shallow naming conventions, its a reflection of your shallow worldbuilding.
This probably extends to all stories, not just the fantasy genre. I'm super guilty of it. I have four characters all named magnus (its a comedy, but there were better jokes I could have made.)

LCT_m_a_d
May '21

As a black person, I personally prefer seeing black characters portrayed with fashion that black people rep instead of exotic dark-skinned characters (unless there's an actual cultural reason). It sounds like maybe they're visualizing just a really dark skinned asian character.

It's not racist just a bit exploitive and un-relatable. Maybe start with basing characters off with everyday black people. To be fair I live in the US.

bluejamtoast
May '21
Wumbl

We both have assumptions. I've made the assumption its not a super serious grounded in real life story because, black, charac, w white hair, & japanese name screams cartoony.

And for me there is no morality with stylistic choice. It's neither bad or good. Just is.

Do not use TV shows that are purposefully cartoonish / edgy as support for what normal naming conventions are

You've made the assumption they want something grounded in reality, I don't understand why. We all know Shiro isn't a normal Japanese name. Hence why I'm using cartoon/anime examples

Agree to disagree I don't understand why only an asian character can have a name derivative from an asian language. Why? Cultural differences I guess, i'm not from the West or East and have the same standards of judgment for both. Again with the Hamatora example they were all Japanese w quirky/edgy/weird english names

If you're not picking up the nuances of what I'm saying that's on you, sorry. I'm trying to make them clear

I genuinely don't understand and I feel you haven't answered clearly :weary: and you haven't explained The naming / writing conventions and tropes used by japanese authors are inherently different to how westerners make their choices ?? In what way?

I'm just trying to raise a point of why asian people don't like certain patterns in projects made by weebs, (literal weebs - weeaboos) and why it's important to be aware of it.

If you think its corny, generic and kind of laughable. then fair enough, but I don't understand the condemnation for the anime examples or how it concludes that its only ok for a fictional asian character to use corny asian name

Please don't consider this as speaking over asians, but speaking with you guys.

At least do you get where I am coming from?