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frgmnt
Sep '20

I just want to second what some people have already stated... cancel culture is another term thrown around so much that it has losts its meaning, same as "SJW" or "problematic".
Dogpiling on marginalized creators - who are usually fanfic writers or twitter artists without a huge following - is cancel culture and yes it is bad. Calling out a multi-millionaire, who will continue producing content and making money regardless, on their shitty views, is not.

I will never support anything JKR makes or says again because it doesn't sit right with me personally, but I'm not letting her kill my fond memories of growing up with her series. It is deeply flawed, but I respect what it has done for children's literature and also was one of the books that inspired me to write when I was a kid. And since twitter is obviously viewing everything in a very black-and-white mindset, I've seen takes on there that go basically "You HAVE to stop liking HP it's a gross shitty series!!!", which I strongly disagree with - I can be aware the creator is a shitty person and still enjoy the good parts of what they created, and I don't owe anyone an explanation.
/excuses myself out of this thread before it becomes a dumpster fire

Dane_Sherbet
Sep '20
1

I have mixed feelings about cancel culture. On one hand, it often resembles a lynch mob. On the other hand, it's not wrong to hold people of power and influence to a higher standard. It's not wrong to challenge moral statements. That's how cultural discourse happens, and it's good to have an ongoing conversation about these things.

I'd like to remind everyone that it's okay not to have a definite opinion about this and that the process isn't about picking sides or hills to die on. It's about reaching a better understanding, and helping others to do the same.

BlunderingAlbatross
Sep '20

I definitely know what you mean.

My opinion is that her statements are problematic at best (especially her recent novel) and by this point she's a bit of a waste of skin and needs to get in the sea and leave us all alone.

However. I still love HP as a setting and a series, I still identify as a Hufflepuff (fight me), and still get giddy and nostalgic whenever I read the books or watch the main movie series, especially the earlier ones.

This is definitely a case of separating the art from the artist.

MegaRay
Sep '20

I personally am not a fan of her. I liked the first Harry Potter movie but I never felt the need to watch any of the sequels or read any of the books. With that being said, I don't believe in the 'cancel culture' as I don't believe Twitter is real life. The problem is when companies treat Twitter like real life and change things based on what Twitter thinks.

Also, I agree about separating art from the artist. If something is good, it is good. And if something is bad, it is bad. The creator's bigotry or lack of does not have anything to do with that. I will take a good product over a bad product regardless of who makes them. Pretty sure lots of the stuff I purchase are made in China lol

sarrowsmith10
Sep '20

wow, you guys all make such good points. I guess I hadn't given much thought to whether cancel culture was legitimate or not. I'm hearing a lot of chatter about twitter, but I've seen the nastiness extend into other social networks, including facebook and even water cooler conversations at work. JK's drama is very wide spread more so than some meme or something else that might be offensive.

byelacey
Sep '20
1

Agreed on most folks in here about cancel culture. JK has not been cancelled. She has a massive platform, she just had a(n incredibly transphobic) book published, and she's in the news almost weekly for saying something harmful. If she were cancelled, we wouldn't have this thread. However, attacking people for liking her work is directing anger toward sometimes vulnerable people, when you should be pulling support from JK instead.

Now, as for separating the art from the artist: that's an easy thing to do when the artist hasn't told you in particular that you don't matter. It's a priviledge!

But, in my opinion, it's impossible to separate JK's problematic beliefs from Harry Potter. The entire species of elves who are happy to be slaves; the hook-nosed wealth-hoarding goblins, and the transphobic depiction of a trans woman to name a couple.

Every time she pops up in the news it seems like way too many people are wringing their hands and trying to figure out how they can still enjoy Harry Potter, when, let's face it, better media exists. Sometimes it's alright to put those Griffindor scarves in the closet and forget about em. It just seems like the very least you could do to let your trans friends know you care about them more than a fandom.

But I won't come after you for it.

Dane_Sherbet
Sep '20

A lot of people forget that "death of the author" is a tool of literary criticism, it's not a tool for sorting out how you feel for something you used to love. Should you still love it? Should you stop loving it? Are you allowed to look fondly upon the memories? It's like watching someone come to terms with an abusive parent. It's like people think "death of the author" means "This person is dead to me, and can no longer hurt me."

But rewriting history isn't the way to go. Coming to a more nuanced understanding, that's how you do it.

NickRowler
Sep '20

As a trans person, I will say, PLEASE do not harass people who still like Harry Potter. Especially fans who are kids or on the spectrum.

I also don’t like how people are writing sexist and death threats about JK Rowling. I would prefer just unfollowing and ignoring her. This lady has dealt with harsh critics, I remember when conservative groups would burn her books. Harassing her is not going to change her mind.

HGohwell
Sep '20
Dane_Sherbet

I don't think this is how people are taking it though. Most people I've seen use death of the author in this sort of case are saying "well yes, looking back in this new light maybe some of these things are more concerning but I choose to continue reading the meaning I always meant". Many people have applied this sort of thinking to Enders Game. Or any book that they took as teaching us about acceptance, or having a message or tolerance, or even a more LGBT+ theme only for the author to reveal themselves as a bigot ect. Apparently the author didn't mean this to mean what I took from it, but I'm going to take that away from it anyway.

Lots of people are saying "I'm going to take the message of tolerance and acceptance I first read in HP rather than letting the author's views taint that" and that's pretty Death of the Author to me, aka the reader's interpretation is the only interpretation that matters.

HGohwell
Sep '20
Does JK Rowling's Transphobia Ruin Harry Potter?

There are videos on it all over the place breaking it down. But she also has a history of retweeting and liking racist, transphobic and generally vile tweets and then claiming it was a mistake and suing anyone who reports it, as I mentioned above.

And most notable for me isn't just her being "misinformed" or "having a different opinion" but the lies. Like about Maya who "was fired for saying biological sex is real". No. Her contract wasn't renewed when it ran out because she was making her work place hostile and being rude in public about clients. She took it to employment tribunal and was told (I'm paraphrasing) "your opinions aside, we cannot force a company to renew your contract at the end of its term". But JK insists "she was fired for saying biological sex is real".

CommanderMarty
Sep '20

That doesn't answer my question, what did she do or say that is causing this?

Dane_Sherbet
Sep '20

This whole thing reminds me of the thing with Orson Scott Card, who wrote a very important sci-fi book but who's also a raging homophobe. And the book, Ender's Game, has important things to say about war and violence and so on. And the homophobia is what it is.

This is what I mean about nuanced views. In this hyper-informed era you're going to have a bad time unless you accept that people can be very wise and very stupid and that you can love them and hate them at the same time.

HGohwell
Sep '20
CommanderMarty

It does. It's in the video explaining everything she has said and breaking down each point of her giantass essay on transpeople and tweets.

liamhernandezlucas
Sep '20

I think that claiming an author's works should no longer be read or appreciated because of unrelated statements is a bit silly.

If someone's a serial killer (and this is a veeery extreme comparison, she's no murderer) then that serial killer should be in jail, but if that serial killer writes a ten part epic about a magic goose. you have every right to enjoy that ten part epic (and you might get some social/cultural understandings reading it, knowing that the writer's a killer, since that's probably reflected in their writing, or surprisingly unnoticable)

As for the Death of the Author thing, I think it's fair to say Rowling was actively preaching tolerance. Heck, even the biggest self centered morons will still try to preach good values, because they rarely realise they're breaking those morals themselves. If anything, it's interesting to read a work from an author whilst trying to understand how their world view is slanted. People with bad ideas get those ideas from somewhere after all.

People still enjoy Lovecraft's works, and he is very openly racist and idiotic in those, but it's interesting to see how this sad reclusive man from the days of old would look at the world and see fear in every corner.

So regardless of what you think of Rowling herself, there can still be value in reading what she wrote (unless you're bored by what she writes, or just too uncomfortable to enjoy it)

I've seen Rowling say some dumb things, but nobody should have their writing license revoked for being ignorant or bad at arguing.

HGohwell
Sep '20

I mean, just to be clear, her writing license has clearly not been revoked since she literally just released a new, pretty explicitly transphobic (especially in conjunction with her very recent tweets and rants) book under her awfully chosen pen name with terrible history of its own (and has many people have said, with her thing for meaningful names the chances of her not having looked it up are slim). So, she's not cancelled in any way, shape or form.

IndigoShirtProd
Sep '20
liamhernandezlucas

I would agree with you, but was it said somewhere previously in the thread that a recent book of hers, and some of the harry potter books, had problematic coding for trans people, jewish people, etc. It would be great if JK Rowling's problematic beliefs were completely separate from her fiction, but they aren't. And it's really hard for authors in general to not unconsciously weave their prejudices into their art, regardless of how open minded they are.

Dane_Sherbet
Sep '20
liamhernandezlucas

Well, we definitely can't look at them in the same old light. We can't just think of them as harmless kid's stories if the author has started using her fame to promote an agenda of hate. We can't continue to buy her books, not if it gives her validation and possibly money to spend on disagreeable causes. We can't send the message to publishers that this behavior of hers is okay and doesn't affect their bottom lines at all.