Lack of natural talent and how far can hard work get you

carloswebcomic 2015-10-01 04:21:34 UTC #1

For a long time I did not believe in 'talent'. The idea that people are naturally preconditioned to be artists was plain ludicrous to me. I was firm in the belief that if you put enough hard work and try your best, you could achieve anything art-wise.
For years I've tried hard... really hard.... really F*CKING hard to improve my drawings and for a while, it paid off.
But now, after over 20 years of continuous practice, I compare my stuff to what much younger people are doing and I'm barely mediocre. I mean, I'm happy that I can draw stuff that kind of looks like what it's meant to be, but really, I can't draw eye watering, amazing stuff. I just don't have the chops for it.

Now I'm starting to think that maybe there's something like talent and I don't have it. Perhaps some are born with a special something that allows you to move beyond good and go on to great. Maybe hard work can only get you so far before your lack of talent starts to hold you back.

What do you guys think? Do you believe in talent?

zelkats 2015-10-01 05:00:25 UTC #2

I think the notion of how talent has nothing to do with anything because it's 100% hard work is somewhat naïve because everyone is born different with different brains.

Some people are just better at memorising visual information and translating it to their drawings, just like how there are people who are better at remembering facts, numbers or something and applying it to their work.

I know a couple of artists who took long breaks from drawing and claim to have gotten better despite not physically practicing their art because they had their eyes and minds to look around and take note of the things that would help improve their skill. It's a pretty frustrating thing for many other artists to hear but I wouldn't dismiss those experiences. After all, it's their brain doing the work too -- not just their hands (which are -- when you think about it -- pretty much nothing more than instruments).

heterodont 2015-10-01 05:02:42 UTC #3

I feel like to a certain extent, there is 'talent'.

However, it can be squandered if so-called 'talented' person doesn't put forth effort (hard work) to improve their craft. Without attempting any kind of work because they believe they're talented to the point its not necessary, they begin to stagnate and (possibly) become worse than before - meanwhile their peers who DO put forth effort, talented or not, are soon going to leave them in the dust.

The thing with just 'hard work' is that there's a plateau, where it seems like you're not improving. It's something that you just have to trudge through, eventually you'll stumble upon some kind of epiphany and improve almost immediately.

Not to mention, the people who say they're talented are usually not . <:l (not in all cases)

Kayke 2015-10-01 05:21:10 UTC #4

I think that natural talent is definitely a thing. Like I don't believe anyone is born with the skills it takes to be an artist, but there definitely are people who's brains are wired in a way that can make art easier for them. Some people have a really good sense of color, some people have a really good handle on perspective, some people have a natural eye for layouts. And some people are wired in a way that it's much easier for them to learn technical skills.

But I kind of feel like the real question is "how far can talent get you?" I know plenty of people who were very naturally talented, but didn't have drive and I think that's a lot more detrimental than a lack of talent. If you don't have the drive to want to constantly improve your art and the dedication to keep creating work, then talent doesn't mean anything.

In a perfect world, all artists would have both talent and drive, but that's not the case. Many talented artists do nothing with their gifts because they don't have the passion to work hard at their craft.. and many people who feel a desire or need to do art spend years working hard toward goals that they're never able to reach because they weren't born with a "good eye" for art.

AnnaLandin 2015-10-01 05:53:29 UTC #5

Yes, I believe in talent, but my definition of talent might be a bit odd.

Everyone's brains are wired a bit differently, which means that we absorb knowledge differently. Some people learn things best when they're allowed to read about it. Others need people to explain it to them out loud, because they absorb spoken information better.

And some people learn better visually. This is where I think the "talent" for drawing comes from. People who absorb information better visually will have an easier time learning to draw. They learn faster, and are able to wrap their heads around new stuff easier than those who DON'T have a knack for learning visually - and there's really not much you can do about that.

What you CAN do is work hard. And not just work hard, but work smart. Analyze your own learning process. You've obviously learned something over these 20 years - look back at that, and try to figure out how you learned it. Which parts were the easiest to learn, and why? Try to pick out the learning methods, and apply it to the stuff you find difficult.

I've been drawing for even longer than you have, and I'm still improving - and I still have a long way to go. I'm very much in the slow-and-steady camp of improvement, especially right now - because I'm drawing, like, five different projects at once, and don't have the time for pure practise at the moment. But I know that if I DO set time aside for practise - painting environments, brushing up on anatomy and perspective, etc., - I'd improve faster. For right now, though, I'm satisfied with slow-and-steady, because it allows me to improve while at the same time drawing comics regularly.

Yes, this! This holds true for a lot of things, not just creative pursuits! I knew plenty of people in school who were academically talented - but they never worked hard for it, which meant that as long as things were easy, they coasted along like it was nothing, but as soon as stuff got remotely challenging, they gave up. The people who had been working hard all along didn't, and so they succeeded where the naturally talented people didn't.

It's the tortoise and the hare, except with people.

Chocolate 2015-10-01 06:14:38 UTC #6

You're never going to be happy if you keep comparing yourself to others! You do you! Like you, I compare my art to other artists, even to this day... "Why can't my art look like so and so? Why can't I produce the art that I desired? Why can't I just restart?" These are the thoughts running through my mind everyday... The result? My depression worsened. Pretense ignorant my friend, and you'll be much, much happier. Draw what you love, what you truly feel passionate about, what you would want your audience to experience... not what you want or want to be. Cliche as it is: be your own unique art piece! Go get them tiger!

scythe 2015-10-01 06:22:29 UTC #7

Well... yes and no.

This is slipping a bit too much into the nature vs nurture pond, which we should really want to avoid.

There is natural talent. To state otherwise would be to deny reality. Child prodigies are testament to it at the very least.

Physicist Richard Feynman recounted a great story where he would try to count to a minute in his head and get it to match a real minute as close as possible. While doing this, he found it easy to do certain things but not others, and was shocked to learn that his colleagues could do those other things while counting, but not those things he found easy. In short, he discovered that even for seemingly simple tasks, very different processes are happening in our brains.

So when you sit down to draw, the way your brain goes about doing that could be diametrically different to how everyone or even anyone else does that. Why this is could be innate, learned or a mix of both.

But yes, I do agree with the statement, that there are those who will never achieve true technical greatness, no matter how hard they try. And by extension, there are always others who will get to the mountaintop with comparatively little effort.

Of course, sheer artistic excellence is not the be and end all in this game.

UndefinableCreature 2015-10-01 07:03:08 UTC #8

Some things come naturally, so I'd call that talent.
But those who actually work hard to develop it are a whole lot more respectable.

ifluke1 2015-10-01 08:07:27 UTC #9

I took that journey and
it was like doing a 3 point turn in an ocean liner in a sea of glue,
glacial slow in other words. Of course my ongoing momentum hasnt
slowed and now authorizes me to write books on the subject like
weight loss celebrities; [ turn breathlessly to camera ] 'I just have
to tell the world about my secret to success so urged by my hugh list
of 'friends ' So I made a video ' **Funky Flukes Guaranteed way to big up
a pinhead of talent '**

I enjoyed writing that.
I earned it. If you are still reading. It comes down to one thing.
You have still not found your voice or niche.

KSlinger 2015-10-01 08:27:27 UTC #10

Story time (written in hindsight, because I didn't expect to write this much).

I believe 'talent' comes down to three things:

Recognising the way in which you learn most efficiently
Recognising what it is you want to achieve and how to get there
Actively attempting to reach that goal

Imagine you have two children and give them each a box of lego.

Now imagine one child takes the box and builds the spaceship pictured on the front. They take great joy in seeing something exciting and intricate and making it for themselves-- it is a great achievement to replicate the picture so perfectly, and very satisfying.

Beside that child, the other one isn't paying attention to the picture on the box at all. This one is building something else-- and you don't really know what it is until they're finished. Turns out it's some kind of melted parrot. Good job kid.

What happened here was that both of these children were given the same tools, guidelines and time, and both pursued an activity they, personally, found to be most enjoyable. They took different approaches and achieved different results, and both are excellent in their own way. The first child may grow up and go to school and find they do very well at maths, science, and other factual tests, because they take great satisfaction in replicating what they know to be correct and can do it superbly. The second child may grow up to be terrible at maths, science, and factual tests, but excel in writing or dance because their passion lies in creating facts for themselves, not replicating what already exists. They don't have time for facts!

Now lets imagine these children grow up and both decide they want to be artists. Great! One takes photographs and redraws them, the other starts painting melted parrots. Both of them carry on in this vein for years, dabbling in what they find fun, growing into young adults who are known as the 'artists of the family', and both of them sticking to exactly what they enjoy and what they're praised for-- replicating what exists, and creating something new.

Eventually the two of them reach a point where they can't seem to get any better. They both stall, unsure of how to go forward. The problem is that they two of them are too much of one thing alone. One is technically gifted, but not creative; they can draw anything you ask them too, but they cannot design. The other is creative, but not technical; they can't copy anything at all, but they can create you anything you suggest, in their own way.

Now lets say the two of them see each others work. What do they say?

'Wow! You're so talented! I could never do that!'

The truth is, they could. They could do exactly what the other has done, but they haven't because it simply never interested them. It's very easy to excel in something when you enjoy it--- gaming, dancing, carving, singing-- but there will always come a point where you need to recognise that if you want to take whatever it is you do to the next level, you need to start working on things you don't enjoy.

These things can be anything at all, as well as things you never knew existed. Something as simple as learning how to draw lines smoothly, or colour light a certain way, or even buying yourself a new tablet because the one you have is old and manky. This is crucial, and the same as buying yourself a bigger lego set; you're making an investment (time and/or money) to provide yourself with more tools to play with.

Lets say the two children, now adults, are working in small jobs alongside other creative people-- some just like them, others not. They are exposed to so many things-- concepts, approaches, processes, tips, tricks, examples, demonstrations, discussions, and opportunities to play-- and upon seeing each of these they feel a flare of something tremendous. A 'YES! I can USE this!' feeling that makes them all squirmy inside. And with, that they scurry away and get back to work on what they love, constantly poking and prodding their creation into shape.

So, to (finally) answer your question, I do believe talent exists, but I believe it only exists because people are able to recognise what they excel in, recognise what they must do to be better, and actually invest the time and effort into achieving it.

Some people learn how to complete these steps at a very early age-- like it's second nature. They are a prodigy, or a 'natural talent', and it's purely because they see what they are doing, see what they must do, and do it. It's as simple as 1, 2, 3. And I know this is a very simplified version of things. Some people face difficulties, some don't have the time. Some aren't exposed to anything new, and some people's dreams are squashed before they've had a chance to form.

The point is, you can do it. Anyone can. You just need to identify what it is you want and go get it.

So go get it!

ifluke1 2015-10-01 08:48:12 UTC #11

Good post

[ small voice ] Im going to ask you to make my video please

SpavVy 2015-10-01 12:09:10 UTC #12

I think natural talent could be a possibility.
I suck at everything else but things like art just come naturally to me it seems, or at least that's how it feels anyway.

xo1 2015-10-01 13:31:46 UTC #13

I think talent is when it takes you less time to get to a certain point. I think this is what talent is. Perfect Practice makes perfect, oh and constant learning as well.

I've had countless professional artists say this as well as "There will always be someone better than you." I learned this the hard.

Doubtcent 2015-10-01 13:47:57 UTC #14

I know a lot of people who have a natural take on art, simply because they were given that card. But that doesn't mean that someone without that gift can't develop the skill. It also doesn't mean that the gifted will use their gifts, for good, for bad, if at all. I believe that everyone has a hidden talent inside them, be it for art, for music, for work, or a specialty.

I for instance stumbled upon the gift of logic and math. I just had a natural instinct towards it and started doing it, and absorbing it like water to a sponge. Of course, I didn't want to become an engineer, but found I could use the logic my mind liked to use in writing or coming up with concepts. That then translated to wanting to become a writer, and then, doodling on the side so I knew what the characters looked like when I described them, I got into art. It wasn't easy, but eventually I got something of a knack out of it. Skip forward a couple of years, (and several, horrible-looking sketches later) I realized that I had some "talent" in understanding art as well.

Now I draw stuff I could never dream to before. And because of my background in writing, I made a LOGICAL step and started creating comics, although very recently. Now I'm pushing myself to get better, even though I don't have the natural talent to do so. I'm still a greenhorn, so the only direction I see is going up.... I feel like writing again after saying all this.

Kyosu 2015-10-01 16:19:17 UTC #15

"talent" can exist but without hard work, originality and a little of madness it's useless. u.u

DeadAccount 2015-10-01 16:35:30 UTC #16

Yes! Excellent post. Working hard in important, but working smart is just as crucial and often overlooked.

KrugosNavarro 2015-10-01 18:24:31 UTC #17

Absolutely, some people find it easier to learn and master certain disciplines, I've noticed it both as an artist myself and with my students when I worked as a piano teacher. But just because some of us have a harder time, it doesn't mean we can't get very good at something (maybe not genius level, but professional level definitely), we just need to work harder. What I can tell you for sure in my experience teaching, is that it's not always about "how much" you practice but "how" you do it, if you're not seeing results perhaps you need to reevaluate the way you've been practicing. Don't be discouraged, keep working on your art and focus on that which you think need most improving, set small goals and go from there, one step at a time. =)

Luminosophy 2015-10-01 19:01:26 UTC #18

I don't believe in Talent. More accurately, I don't believe talent has inherent limiters on how skilled a person can or cannot get. My sister and I were both born with a predisposition for art. Both parents dabbled in art when they were younger. My sister draws as well as your average 13 year old. She might have a better grasp on fundamentals than someone who has never trained, but they're still just advanced stick figures at the end of the day. It's not like she can wake up the next day and make a perfect copy of the Mona Lisa. So to act like Talent is the only thing that matters is pretty dumb.

If you are stagnating in skill, it's not because you can't draw. It's because you're sticking to a comfort zone or more likely are lacking a needed awareness of a new concept to push you further. I spent something like 19 years learning to draw now. The kicker is after that long time struggling with complexities I finally got to a point where I realized drawing is inherently easy. It was my mind getting in the way, trying to make things more complex than they really were that gave me such a hard time. Now it feels like the real learning beings.

The funny thing is my Gradmaster says the same for Kung Fu. Getting your Black Belt is like completing elementary school. On your way there you thought it was the be all end all. But when you finally get it, you realize you only just got the fundamentals and there's whole new world of learning to explore. I think this applies to all skills. The skill itself is inherently simple, but your lack of understanding is what actually makes the learning process difficult. Drawing is all about observation - seeing the world for how it really is. All you really need is the ability to look at a scene and deconstruct it in your mind into simple shapes and colour blocks.

Chopythes 2015-10-01 19:19:15 UTC #19

I pretty much agree on what everyone else has said here.

I don't think I ever had "natural" talent, I've always drawn but it wasn't until very recently (if 8 years is recent) that I noticed that I could actually see how I could improve my own art. Having the visual eye to see, a critical mind to understand why something looks odd is what I believe makes it "natural talent".
Some have this, others don't.

But I do believe that the key word is practice, practice and more practice. Sometimes I need to grab a break to let my head and hands catch up with what I've learned.

I do believe in natural talent, some artists seems to never ever had a bad art in their life when the showcase the decades of art they've made. And that they improved much faster than others which makes them more or less prodigies.
But everything in your post is what I've been thinking lately, I've been doubting my own ability to draw and it feels nice, knowing I'm not the only one having the same questions as you have. :D

Nothing in my life has ever come easy for me. I've had reading disabilities, I still can't get math, I can't even hold the rythm to a song and my voice cracks so much when I try to sing that my friends tells me to keep it shut, haha!
But I've made a webcomic and continued it for more than 2 years and it's a bit over 240 pages and finally something feels right. I just need someone to show me how things work before I can do it myself.

But knowing your strength and weaknesses is a key point to understanding how to improve yourself.
What are you good at, and what aren't you good at? If you feel stuck, experiment!

Luie 2015-10-02 18:38:47 UTC #20

Besdes hard work, there are two other factors that will affect how quickly you gain skill.
The first is how to teach yourself. The better you know how to teach yourself how to fix your mistakes or improve your strengths, the more you'll progress in a shorter amount of time. This is true for every other kind of self-taught skill. It doesn't matter how hard you work, it matters how smart you work. I was ot a smart worker, in fact I was a rather lazy artist and only drew the things that I liked to draw, but my drive to get better at drawing those things helped me find the right ways to improve my skillset. Now I'm gifted with the ability to only draw a handful of things really well.

The second is something a bit more akin to "talent", and that's how your brain interprets visual information. For example, I can start freehanding in perspective just by throwing a few lines because I've memorized where vertical and horizontal lines will fall by following lines I've already drawn. I'm not phenomenal, but perspective is a hard thing for my peers to grasp and they usually need rulers. It's like Michelangelo's quote about how how he can already see the sculptures trapped inside, and all he has to do is uncover them. This is also a learned skill, and can be improved through practice. The better you are able to understand the visual properties of a shoe, the more angles you'll be able to draw it in. This also goes back to teaching yourself, but having a good understanding of how to visualize 3d figures on a 2d plane is different from actually drawing one. This one's a bit harder to explain, and it's something I've only recently noticed myself doing. Especially when it comes to panels and scenes, I can visualize where lines will go. the better I'm able to draw the object, the better I've be able to put it into perspective.

I refuse to think this is something people are born with, although visual perception may be stronger in some than others. It's simply a different way of looking at things, like when you're drawing from a real life reference and you look at whatever object you're drawing in a way you don't usually look at things. The better you're able to do that, the more you'll improve.