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TomDellaringa
Nov '18

Something interesting I have been noticing of late is how some creators use Tapas' online/vertical format "as intended" while some people kind of go more older school. Let me explain.

I think we can agree the general idea here (and on WT) is to format your comic in such a way that it is mobile friendly. That way it works on desktop, but also reads well on people's devices. This is great because people are consuming a LOT of content on their devices these days. (In fact, I work in the mobile space, so I deal with this daily). This is even MORE true when it comes to younger adult audiences.

So building that "vertical" flow of your comic that is essentially one panel or scene per "screen" works well for this. And I've seen people get really creative with it.

However, I still see some folks posting "pages." They still might be formatted to be mostly readable on a phone, but they are a group of panels together (say 3-5) in one SCREEN area. This is the old webcomic way of doing things.

Furthermore, many of the comics that do this are only posting one or two pages per update. Whereas the vertical folks are posting a LOT more content in an update.

So there we have two schools of thought.

What I find very interesting is that some VERY popular comics here are doing it the old school way. They might also be posting more often - even close to daily. But they aren't putting out any more content than folks doing it the other way - because those folks are pushing out more via less updates.

I'm not sure how readers feel about it, but it's probably very individual to each fandom.

I guess what I am getting at is I am wondering if there is an advantage to one way or the other. I'm surprised that creators here - skilled creators - would still be posting comics here as "pages." I almost feel like you are shooting yourself in the foot a little because your comic is less readable that way on devices. And yet - some popular folks are doing it.

Ten years ago, the prevailing wisdom was to post a single page as often as possible. 2-5 times per week. It seems readers on these sites actually want BIGGER updates vs. daily. But probably another issue in this conversation is making sure you "leave em' wanting more" with each update.

For me in Genesis Girl, I tend to post 2 pages per update (My book is laid out as a graphic novel and being converted to post here), which ends up being around 14-16 "screens" of content. Although last update had to be 3 pages to end on a good hook.

So what do you think - format of updates and frequency, and how you end an episode. I think all these things matter. How individual is it per comic/fandom vs. the "right" thing to do?

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Kura
Nov '18

I upload my comic in both formats, this is because I original uploading it to mangamagazine before moving here, because of that, a lot of fans who read the comic pages and were interested in only reading in that format followed me here (a lot of them HATE the vertical scroll format) plus I like the consistency and don't want to change the format in the middle of the comic.

Of the two versions the vertical scroll read does horrible on this website.

Comic book page format

Vertical format

(Webtoons I only have the vertical version, and it does MUCH better there with 2.7k readers instead of 272)

Even the Spanish translation of the page comic does better then the vertical scroll.

I also notice that people are more likely to comment on single page updates than full episodes.

Personally, I actually prefer the page formats (as long as the text is big enough to read. Some people use text way too small for the phone) in small single page (or 3 - 5) updates. Mostly because it's easier to keep track where I left of reading when the episodes are small. (my phone reading time is easily interrupted and tapastic doesn't save your place in the middle of an episode)

Also of note, I don't hate the vertical format, any new comics I draw are in vertical format because reformating pages to read in vertical form takes a lot of extra time that I just don't have, I'm just not going to start doing it for old comic that were created for other page format platforms.

TomDellaringa
Nov '18
1

This is an interesting point. It would be great if Tapas would do some user research on this. I very much get that it's a lot of work to reformat an existing comic. It's what I am doing for BOTH my comics publishing here. But I feel like it reads better that way on devices. And some of the panels can get really small in page format.

The downside of vertical is that you have to break up nice wide panels - they simply don't work here. So you lose those nice big establishing shots.

TomDellaringa
Nov '18

As a reference point, here is page 15 of my graphic novel

page15.jpg960x1421 530 KB

Here is the vertical episode that uses that page. You can see how I had to modify the first panel, among other things.

Pandastrophic
Nov '18

To be honest, I think most readers don't care all that much as long as the comic is readable.
As creators we tend to overthink these things while I think the casual readers don't care as much for the format of the comic, like they wouldn't avoid a comic just because it's in the traditional format, the evidence being that there are so many popular comics that are in traditional format, even ones that update 1 page per week that are super popular. They don't update all that often and it's less content that a vertical format comic yet they're still popular due to other factors.

I like the vertical format so much because it helps me so much as a creator, I can make the conversations flow better, I can pace the scene better, the episode never feels packed bc of the spacing, I can add panels whenever I want if I change my mind about something. I read on my mobile too so reading a vertical format is easier but as long as a traditional format comic is legible and easy to read then I don't mind.

I think a creator should just go for which ever format suits their workflow and comic, reader are used to webcomics being in either format, they'll sub if they like your art and story.

Samuraiflame
Nov '18

I still like both, since I'm used to reading traditional manga and long-form manhwa since way before I started making comics. I think it also depends on the genre and style of the comic, and there's no universal 'right' method (though every platform tends to have its general preferences).

Tbh I wasn't expecting my first comic to get much attention but it ended up surpassing my expectations even with the page format. I actually just use a really simple 4-koma style since it's a comedy, and I can toss a punch line in the last panel of basically every other page this way. People also don't mind if I post shorter updates but I still post at least 3 per episode. I did go back and enlarge my font size to make it more readable on mobile.

Princess Deviant Pg 290.png940x1410 929 KB

It does have its limitations and isn't ideal for action scenes whatsoever, sooo that's why I tried vertical scrolling for my new comic, which is more fantasy-action.

I enjoy having two wildly different formats, and I definitely think there's an audience for both if you utilize them well.

TomDellaringa
Nov '18
Pandastrophic

Something that has been true since the early days of webcomics:

QUALITY TRUMPS ALL.

Back in the day, there were comics that updated rarely, single pages - and yet were widely popular. They had sites that were hard to navigate and yet it all worked. I agree with you, that's still true.

I still think it's fun and worthwhile to have the conversation, but in the end, a compelling story with great art will get read regardless.

qwerty
Nov '18

I'm still relatively new to making comics. My only existing series so far is a vertically-oriented 6-koma. As I've started trying to develop other series though I've been thinking about this a lot.

I actually like the page format better, for two reasons:

  • You can print it.
  • It allows a wider range of variety and creativity in the layout, mainly because you can actually fit 2-3 panels horizontally next to each other. To make comics easily readable on mobile, it seems like you can really only afford to have one panel at a time, which is really limiting if you care about multi-panel composition.

On the other hand, the majority of readers are probably on mobile now, so I guess it's "keep up with the times or get left behind".

SleepingPoppy
Nov '18

I don't think there is a "right" thing to do. It's always going to be dependent on the creator. While I am interested in vertical scroll format for my next project possibly, I don't think or want it to completely take over. Variety is the spice of life, right?

Both have their positive qualities. While being mobile friendly is an important consideration, I'm pretty sure readership is close to 50/50 between desktop and ap, too? So yeah, as long as you're ledgible I don't think anyone should feel like the page is outdated or going away.

Also, happy mediums probably exist? VBG's previous comic, God in the Field reads similar to a scrolling format but fits into print. Not saying everyone should do that (it's gorgeous but definitely a feat to creat) but my point is more we can still expirament with format and see what works for our intended purposes!

TomDellaringa
Nov '18

It would be great if Tapas exposed analytics on our readers. Knowing some of that would be valuable.

woah-man
Nov '18

My current comic is the 'old' school format, but honestly that's only because I intend to print it when I finish it. Very few of my readers actually read online comics, I'm mostly just 'trialing' it online. But still, I try really hard to make it readable on both desktop and mobile! It's not impossible to do, obviously a lot of it has to do with font size and type. :slight_smile:

I have no idea how I'd go about turning a vertical comic for print format, but I'm sure a lot of people on Tapas aren't thinking about that and are more focused on mobile formatting.

I think it just is up to the artists personal preference, too. Personally I find vertical layouts to be a lot easier to assemble, but with the 'old school' format, I feel like I can be a lot more creative with my layout. :slight_smile: Plus, I just prefer reading printed comics so when I find one online that's in a traditional format, it's a little more fun for me to read.

TomDellaringa
Nov '18

Just to be clear, I am not saying there is one right way to do it.

Both of my comics are made as pages. I reformat them to post here. Marooned has already been through multiple printings. GG is new, but will also be printed when done. I feel like it's the best route if you want a printed book.

It would be tricky to create a vertical only comic and try to print it later. I've done a lot of print work, and you really need to prepare for it ahead of time.

joannekwan(ง ˙o˙)ว here to help~
Nov '18

I use the page format because 1. if I ever want to print my story I'm good to go. 2. personally I can't read those single panel per screen webtoons formatted ones for very long. I have to scroll a lot, my eyes get fucked up, I feel sick. 3. I don't want a tall-ass file where I can't see anything upon a quick pass when looking at the thumbnail.

neichasart
Nov '18

I tend to do both. Page formats for arcs that span over several pages and vertical format for stuff that's more just like a short strip.
I just feel like pages are more interesting to build than vertical formats.
Might be because I went to art school for comics and we did do mostly everything in page format.
I guess more than sticking to one format I lean more towards whatever feels better to me composition wise to tell the story I want to tell.

I guess a good rule of thumb is just to check the pages are readable on the mobile app. But I don't think there's any real reason to favor one over the other.
:thinking:

fischhead
Nov '18

Got any examples? Everything I've seen so far just reinforces my opinion that the vertical scroll is much more restrictive. That being said, I think format is definitely important because you risk alienating a large number of potential readers by posting full pages that won't show up well on a smaller screen. However, I think that quality of content and length of updates matter a bit more.

@kura Thanks for the info on full page vs vertical. I'm planning to post my work in both formats after New Year's, so that data is very interesting.

racarter
Nov '18

I like the old school single page format, personally.

Vertical is good and I enjoy plenty of vertical comics, but I grew up on old school comics that me and my dad read together, plus manga. I always loved interesting paneling so naturally by the time I get pretty decent at it, vertical formats become more of the standard for mobile reasons.

I personally prefer reading pages but like having the ability to scroll down to the next page as opposed to clicking over to the next page.

Maybe I’ll occasionally do vertical pages, if it suits the scene I’m trying to do, but I just like pages instead. Also it’s easiet for me because I can’t produce enough content quickly enough to justify vertical pages, IMO.

TomDellaringa
Nov '18
fischhead

Can't think of anything specific right now, but generally comics that really embrace it and create specifically for that (and not just stacked vertical frames). But I do think that makes printing a book much harder. So you have to think about what you really want. If you just browse around some of the really popular stuff you'll see some interesting examples.

amortelito
Nov '18

To be honest It frustrates me a little when the a comic updates are a bunch of white pages with just a few panels in which nothing happens. (like the dude is putting his shoes on for 8 pages) The format is the least important thing when the comic is not interesting. I agree with you all saying that the quality is much more important.

I confess that vertical format frustrates me as a creator because every single page of my comic had a consistent scene and a cliffhanger to encourage users to keep reading. Now I can only fit 2 or 3 panels per page and not enough is being said, I think I need 3 pages to accomplish what one single page used to. But I'm adapting.

TheFalseVyper
Nov '18
1

I post single page updates! The biggest reason I chose this option over the more popular vertical scroll is because I want to print my comic eventually. Single pages makes this possible