Jun 2016
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Jun 2016
Feb 2018
Zpreader
Jun '16
Delphonse

That's a fair point. Can't say I've considered this too much myself to be honest, but I definitely agree that some compensation should be in order depending on who initiates the contract be it writer or artist, and broadly writers certainly deserve more credit than a thread like this may suggest.

That being said, I could definitely see cost of entry being a reason for why this isn't considered too much. As a writer, its possible to make due with a decent computer and a basic word processor. Now don't get me wrong, that's not to say that you will do that. Better word processors (including some specifically made for story writing and outlining) and purchased research material can add quite a bit to the cost. But for an artist hoping to perform at a professional level, the starting prices can be pretty steep regardless of whether you work analog or digital. Tablets and software are a one time purchase (if you're lucky), but can be anywhere from a bit expensive to absolutely wallet slaying, and you have to have a processor that can handle the stress that they entail. And while most physical art tools are quite cheap (I'm looking at you, Copics), they don't last forever, and that price can build up rather quickly.

heterodont
Jun '16
Delphonse

You definitely have a point! While writers are required to give some sort of (monetary, usually) compensation to artists, you never really see an artist state anything like "willing to pay writer for a story"! Not to say it doesn't take any effort to write a story, because I can barely break 12 pages with just the script of my stories - I couldn't imagine writing a full length novel or anything - but I feel like it's not really that certain artists have a Story in mind but they don't have the writing chops to flesh it out? Many times people, no matter how strong or weak they are in writing, still manage to type something out that they can use as a vague script.

Often times the artists you see searching for collaborations on the forum are looking for people who already have a story written out - not that they're looking for a writer to say, write their dialogue or chapters out. They're looking for people who already have written what they want to happen out, people who already know where their story is going and how to write it. From the topics I've seen, no one is really looking for someone to proof-read their chapters or their dialogue to make sure everything makes sense and is clear. Most writers want artists for a service (which is, visual interpretation of their writing) but usually, artists want writers for their projects.

Delphonse
Jun '16
Zpreader

That is true and I by no means condone using artists or putting either down. In fact the more I think about it the more upset I get lol I really hate good artists putting themself down and thinking they arent worth it. I am spending 90$ minimum every week and I ak working so hard to improve my writing. I want to be able to complement my artists. Our main focus is to become professional I believe my storywriting is not the greatest but I do hold pride in my work and in the time I spent learning what I need to. Right now we are working hard to get noticed by webtoons. We have a long way but I know that once we do about 3/4ths of the monetary gain would go to my artists. So I can pay them what they are worth. Sorry I get ranty on this subject I want artists to get paid their fair share and I am willing to put risk in my project cause I believe it will succeed given time ^.^

Delphonse
Jun '16
heterodont

I do see that often artists looking for a writer who has most of their stuff finished. I have my series almost completely fleshed out and the first 29 chapters written and edited multiple times. That took me over a year and half with the assistance of friends. I have 3 other short series that I have just in the early stages of fleshing out. Hoping to make them only at most 20 chapters each. My main series is a long running one that will take a long time to finish. I should have done smaller ones to begin with but that is my bad. Learn from experiance. Right now I am testing out different genras to expand my skill. I have a romance slice of life a horror mystery and a shonen action series all in the process of being fleshed out. It takes a lot of time and effort to make each but the monetary cost to make these for me is litterally nothing. For an artist like my fiance its drawing books and art supplies on a monthly basis and just now a drawing tablet which we got a decent one not cyntaq but monoprice which we looked around for and had an art friend give us advice. That was 300$. Being an artist is expensive and if you are trying to go professional the cost only increases. The majority of writers who want their "Pasionate project" to succeed usually have no idea what they are doing and when I first started I was in their shoes until I realized the situation most artists are in. I quickly changed my plan of action and switched to paying for assistance. Sorry this is ranty and kind of off subject I think.

heterodont
Jun '16

Nah its fine! It's great that you're trying to develop your writing skills by trying out different genres - not to mention that you're cooperating with your artists to make sure you're not overworking them as well ^^! I'd say you're one of the few writers who acknowledge how much work goes into art, unlike the people who say their stories are going to explode overseas/online and that they'll provide compensation when that happens...

isaacfriedman
Jun '16
UzukiCheverie

This is only tangentially related, but is it reasonable to charge only $5 for a really small black and white drawing of one character with no background?

UzukiCheverie
Jun '16

It depends. If I did a full lineart fullbody of a character, no background, I'd definitely charge more than $5 (they're buying a custom piece of art, not a coffee and donut) but you'd have to specify what "really small" means. And even then, that's just me. Different artists are comfortable with different rates, especially depending on their delivery time/resources needed/etc.

Amymone
Jun '16

They're looking for people who already have written what they want to happen out, people who already know where their story is going and how to write it.

^^^ YEESSS THISSS RIGHT HERE!!!!!!! I can't even list the amount of "writers" who I've met, who have these great concepts for stories that appeared to be ready, until I asked them if the story is physically complete.

"No"

"Can you write the whole thing out in the next year?"

"No. It's impossible!"

And yet you're looking for an artist for this? Talk about putting the cart before the horse!

I can usually pop out a rough draft for a chapter in about 6 hours.

COME HERE AND LET ME HUG YOU!!!

nikacomics
Jun '16
Zpreader

"Every character has over 100 powerlevels" —anyone else reminded of Nigel's amp from "This is Spinal Tap"? LOL

Thanks @Zpreader for sharing this gem :'D

69Michi
Jun '16
Delphonse

Yes. There are writers out there who gets paid for their writing and it's usually a word count thing. I.e $1 every 25 words or something along that line. I used to be in a visual novel making community, so we have a three way collaboration going on among writer, artist and programmer. And in each and every field you need the time and effort to finish up the job so people get paid equally. Usually it is the person who came up with the story idea and needs help making it ended up having to pay for others to help them out, and this is fair. (Like an artist who has an idea for a story, but can't write for god's sake, so they hire a writer and they happily work together)


Well this depends on the quality of the art and how good the artist is. If you ask me for a small (???) black and white drawing of once character with no background, let's just say it's a fullbody, I will charge around $25-30, that is my normal range. I'm not sure what you mean by small here LMFAO I draw on a large canvas size so small or not doesn't matter, what matter is whether you want a bustup, halfbody, or fullbody from me.

isaacfriedman
Jun '16

I probably should've been a bit more specific. Small means a quarter of a piece of cardstock, and simple means just very basic lineart. If the design is particularly complex, I'd add a dollar or two, but the level of complexity of this sort of thing is about on this level:

Simple, sketchy, half-hour to an hour at most. Also, I'm only just getting started on commissions and have sold 1 such commission so far (and it's not one I'd be comfortable sharing so it might as well be zero in terms of publicity). I think that, on the off chance these become popular, I'd bump up the price a little to decrease demand so I can still create a supply while also having time to do my actual job and work on my comics.

keii4ii
Jun '16
Delphonse

It doesn't work that way -- not just because art takes longer, either! The way I see it, it's because if the writer is the one who completely came up with the story, then the project is essentially the writer's brainchild.

However, if a "I'm an artist with a story" type of a creator wants the service of an editor to help with THEIR own brainchild, then the editor (who is probably a writer) definitely is the one who should be paid.

Doubtcent
Jun '16
17

I've done my research on collaborations. They often times do not work out unless it's the artist who is reaching out to a writer.If you are in fact a writer looking for an artist, you should have some knowledge of art yourself so that you can make it as easy as possible for the artist.

Take for instance the writer for Death Note (and Bakuman), Tsugumi Ohba. While he isn't all that great an artist himself, if you look at what he gave to the artist, Takeshi Obata, he mapped out the storyboards himself and drew where the characters would be, the dialogue, just about everything but the actual art. Which to an artist, makes the job so much easier.

So if you are a writer, here's what you should have:

  1. An almost a complete story -
    Basically, you should have your concepts, ideas, and story all set up before asking for someone to draw it for you. You need a fully-realized story already done, with only the art left to be done. Of course, you need to be flexible for the artist if they don't like where the story is going or something, which leads me into the next point.

  2. Flexibility and teamwork -
    If you somehow got an artist working for you, you need to work with their terms. If they don't like something you wrote or if they want something to change with the presentation, or really anything, you have to be willing to compromise. For once you let an artist draw your story, it's no longer just your story. It's both the artist and the writer's. So you cannot hold the artist's ideas or thoughts for granted just because your story is your creation. If you cannot compromise, draw it yourself.

  3. Knowledge of comics -
    Much like how the Death Note Duo worked, both had a lot of knowledge of how a comic should be made. As a writer, you should have the skills on how to write a script, or even draw a bit of storyboard. There is a large difference in writing a book and writing scripts for comics. If you just thought, "I have an idea that would work great as a manga! I should hire an artist!" you may need a bit more on your side.

  4. Willingness to do SOME art -
    A part of teamwork is the willingness to provide any help necessary for the artist. Things like applying screentones (if you're working traditionally), filling out flats or colors (if you're savvy), or willing to learn a bit to lessen the load (like inking backgrounds or filling in darks) can lift loads of burden for the artist. So maybe have some experience in artwork?

  5. Communication -
    This has to be the biggest thing out of everything. When it comes to team projects or even hiring someone, you need to be good at communicating what needs to be done. From costs, to writing issues, to just brainstorming, you need to be in contact with your artist to see what they need, if they're good on a project or if they just need some more time, everything needs to be open for both sides.

  6. Pay -
    That's between you and the artist, but know that the artist is working for you and art ain't easy. Most people can write pages of fantasy or make up an idea, but not everyone can apply this to paper as a comic. It's quite hard. So you need to set the right payment for the right content.

So the basic thing is that if you absolutely need an artist, you need to be as easy to work with as possible. Have a fully-realized idea, be ready to compromise, and communicate. Without good teamwork, nothing will get done.

dglisson
Jun '16

Hey everyone, I've been following this thread just around the time I've been looking to hire an artist, I put up an advertisement for an artist on here and on reddit, just curious if you guys think the ad I placed sounds OK? It's my first time looking for a collaborator so I'm hoping I don't sound like a total noob! The thread is here:

http://forums.tapastic.com/t/seeking-artist-collaborator-with-unique-style-paid/119745

Just let me know if I sound like a dumbass and I need to edit my post? stuck_out_tongue

CaptainUfo
Jun '16
1
Doubtcent

As an artist myself (professionally too, a few yeas ago, and now on my way to reentering the industry) I can only say NO! There's nothing I hate more than writers giving me scketches/storyboards rather than proper scripts. Once you've seen a sketch you cannot unsee it, it influences your work, even if it has blatantly obvious composition errors (which is very likely if the writer has only "some" knoweledge of art). Also, it reduces even more my contribution the the finished work, making the whole thing even less enjoyable, especially if everything is for free.
Unless the artist ask for that, NEVER sketch the scripts. Write them.

Spitfire
Jun '16
dglisson

Well I took you serious enough to start a dialogue with you wink So you definitely didn't sound like a dumbass, though I would have loved bit more examples of your previous work.

69Michi
Jun '16
1
CaptainUfo

Tbh I kind of agree with you but at the same time I feel like I'm on a different boat. I'm an artist AND a writer, I used to be a hobbyst writers for years, translating novels to my mother language and such before getting serious with the art world. Currently I'm working on my first webcomic ever and I found the hardest part of the drawing process is, you guess it, mapped out the storyboard and angling panels + characters. I imagine it would be hard for an artist to know what was going on in a writer's mind while he was writing that specific part of the story to do the character placement justice (sure they can interprete it the way they want but it's always so much better when the writer himself explain what he was thinking in different, specific part of the scenario), so that is where the writer mapping out the storyboard and panels come in handy and I would really appreciate that if I ever work with another writer but myself.

But yes I respect your opinion! It's just my 2 cents haha
Also I noticed the topic is renamed into DISCUSSION LMFAO