3 / 20
Mar 2017

Hi all,
I have to say that most of people around here are a lot more talented than I am and mostly I admire the works that I have checked so far, so... with this said arose my question, most of people here agreed in other threads that ad revenue is giving them only a few dollars per month in best cases (people having 3k subscribbers or so) then being you really talented artists and even artists who publish on physical formats or through other ways that actually pay real money, then why are you posting some of your work here? wouldnt it be better to compile a few pages and sell digitally or physically in whatever the market and get real money for it? I ask this mainly because I have never published on physical or digital market so I was expecting Tapastic revenue to be significant at some point as I havent managed to monetize anything before. Well I dont want to stop publishing here but as Im starting to need a little money for silly things like buying food etc well I would love to hear your thoughts and reasons to publish here or elsewhere, also Im open to any advice or suggestion in relation to monetizing what we do. Thanks in advance =)

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    Mar '17
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    Apr '17
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Thought question: Do you pay for physical or digital comics much? I know I don't. I'm part of and spoiled by the webcomic market, where you mostly get the comic for free and can support financially for extras or for love of the project.

There's no guarantee publishing somewhere where readers have to pay to access your comic (Comicosity, etc) will actually lead to anyone buying your comic, especially if they've never heard of it before.

Because $2 is better than $0.

Ad rev used to be better but the CPM has taken a sharp slide.
And I agree with @dan, it's really hard to get money out of readers, especially since most readers here don't have disposable income yet. Doing Patreon is hard, selling digital goods is harder (unless it's a commission).

The best bet right now is tipping, since coins can be earned for free on the readers' end. I've seen creators do incentives for tipping, like doing extra art for every 1k coins or so. So that's a good option.

Yeah tipping is a huge help! But also, just getting your work an audience has a value beyond money! These days it's very difficult to get something published if it doesn't already have some interest brewing online. The fact that Tapastic offers any cut of the ad revenue is actually pretty unusual, many other sites pocket all the ad revenue as payment for hosting your comic for free.

The problem is, when there are thousands of free comics to read, how do you convince people to pay money to read yours? You might get a couple takers, but overall, that's a fast way to ensuring nobody sees your work. The amount of eyes you get by posting your comic for free online is worth way more than the 2-3 bucks you might earn from keeping it behind a paywall. Plus, a lot of times people will read a comic for free, then purchase the physical copy as a collectable or purely to support the artist. But it's really hard to get someone to buy something they can't check out first.

If you want money to live off of, you're probably not going to find it in comics. Most of us work full or part-time jobs while earning supplemental money from ad revenue, tips, merch sales, patreon, commissions, etc. That's not to say it's impossible to earn good money on comics (it just takes a LONG time and a little luck), but it shouldn't be treated as a primary income source.

I could absolutely have my whole comic compiled into digital files or physical books and tell people "hey! If you want to read my book, it costs $X!" but then it would be very hard for potential readers to find out about it.

It's difficult to get your comic to be distributed to comic book shops if you're not confident that you can sell thousands of books, so if you're a newer creator, you're mostly counting on people finding you on the internet. If, say, 50 people see your page, and it's just an advertisement for your cool comic book that they can buy, maybe only 5 of those people will buy it... and then you only have 5 people telling others about this great new comic that they read.
If, on the other hand, 50 people find your website, and read your comic, and 20 of them really like it, maybe there's still only 5 people who will want to buy the book after they read it, but now you have 20 folks out there talking about this cool new comic they read instead of just five, and more of the people who want to pledge to a patreon or buy your book or buy merchandise of the comic will be able to hear about your comic and find out that it exists.

I started my comics career in webcomics and then moved to print later on, so it's become part of my process to post pages as I create them, and tapastic makes that pretty easy. If I don't post online or to an audience, I tend to procrastinate and my books never get done! Also, considering it takes me a year to produce a new volume of my print comic series, getting any money from online ads/patreon/tipping is a really great means of getting a little bit extra while the thing is in progress, before I can get any revenue from advances and royalties.

Also my publisher and I have found that when I do keep up regular weekly updates of the comic, it actually encourages people to buy the printed book in the end and sales are better for it, because that's every week I'm back in people's feeds reminding them of my comic, as opposed to just trying to sell something sight unseen after a year of silence. So really when I'm posting a comic online whether its here or on my own website it's not with the intention of monetizing, but more to get the word out and get more people exposed to the story so they can become fans and grow a desire to buy books from me later on!

If you are looking to make more money from your comic though and don't want to put it completely behind a paywall, I found that patreon was the most lucrative for that since you can set tiers for rewards/early updates/etc . As opposed to ads which I feel are more like an extra might-be-nice kind of thing.

I use my webcomic as promotion to get other jobs that actually pay.

I mean, I also love my webcomic and telling the story I'm telling with it, so that's the main reason I started it and spend so much time working on it. But when it comes to how do I earn money with comics, it's like my webcomic is just proof that I can write and draw so that people will hire me to write and draw other things, like a really long portfolio. All of the comic gigs I've gotten so far have found me through my webcomic.

Thank you everyone for the heads up, the data you shared will help me greatly =), so basically the main point I get is that as getting real money from Tapastic is quite hard then its good idea to print the volume later and make merchandising, commisions or patreon or whatever to try and get something else because other way its most likely to get few dollars after the CPM drop. But even doing most of these things its possible to get no money overal, I feel like Im bouncing back to where I was, I used to make Flash games (web games people play for free you know weith banners and ads embedded) and it was not a huge business but at least I was able to see real money, then CPM dropped and it became impossible to get anything from there so while Im still making games Im no longer thinking about ad revenue but selling them somehow.

Edit: I forgot to add that I tend to buy comics in printed format but then again maybe Im only like 1 out of the 5 who does the same for that author

I had kind of the opposite experience of a lot of webcomic artists: I started in print and then moved to digital.

We started with print mainly for proof of concept. If we brought it to conventions and people bought it, it was worth continuing. Mind you, this was an expensive proof of concept and both creators (including myself) had to invest the money upfront to get it going. but we were actually really successful at events.

But, there was only so much we could do with just selling at conventions. We tried selling it digitally, but I think in the... year it was up, we only had like 1 or 2 sales? There really wasn't a reason for people to buy it online. Like others have said, there are so many other free comics out there, or services where you pay to get access to a ton of comics. Putting it online for free was to get eyeballs on us. It's to build brand recognition. Plus, having it printed first actually gave me a very sizeable buffer to work with, so I've never missed an update despite working on the comic in bursts!

The biggest thing to remember about comics is that they are not a cash cow for indie creators. They can BECOME sustainable with enough patience, consistency, and luck, but it's a long and hard road. You need as many revenue streams, marketing opportunities, etc. you can get, and that can involve putting it out there for free.

Like anything indie, we often don't have the financial backing for distribution and marketing. Even getting published doesn't necessarily mean you'll be able to live off it, because nowadays nobody pays you upfront, you just get royalties. Some won't even pay for your printing anymore and expect you to kickstart it yourself. It really just comes down to if you think it's worth it to invest so much time and money into something that may not have a payout!

When starting out a creator's greatest threat is obscurity. Do you expect anyone to find a new webcomic, let alone pay for it, if no one knows it exists? When was the last time you purchased music without listening to it first? Same principle in effect here on Tapastic. Posting to Tapastic allows creators to grow their audience and lets readers enjoy the comic for free. Once their comic is done then creators will do a Kickstarter and some readers will choose to purchase the print version as a way of supporting something they like. Our society is moving to a rewards based system were you have to provide something first and then get paid later. Musicians on YouTube for example like The Piano Guys. They have all of their music up there to listen to for free (they do get some ad revenue). After listening to all of their music for a while we then purchased their last album. Without that outlet they lose their way to reach new listeners and accompanying sales.

Ad revenue on Tapastic used to be much better but that's rapidly falling off due to a number of reasons including internet bots, adblockers, and the fact that only 1 in 1000 ad impressions are clicked. Static display ads aren't worth much to advertisers any more so they don't pay much any longer. It's really great that Tapastic is willing to share 70% of the ad revenue, however small it is. A lot of other sites just keep it all.

Meanwhile video ads are worthwhile to advertisers which is why Tapas is giving out coins for those who are willing to watch them. Those coins make up the backbone of the Tipping Program which really is a game changer for webcomics since readers who have little money otherwise can now support comics of their choosing.

Personally our reason for being here is to develop a following so we can do a print Kickstarter after an entire manga volume is complete. If the Kickstarter does well enough then print 2x as many copies and use the remaining copies for distribution to Amazon.com and comic book shops. Nowadays unless you have a big following already established online, its more or less impossible to get a publisher or a distributor to take notice of you.

Tapastic is a great way to start building that readership, and now thanks to tipping, make a little money along the way until the Kickstarter at the end.

I post my story here and elsewhere, publically, for two main reasons.

I want people to read it. I'm telling a story, and a story isn't much of a story if no one ever reads it. Posting it for free in public means lots of people read it who wouldn't be able or willing to pay for it.

It's self-promotion. I'm a freelance artist. If I apply for a job, or if someone looking for an artist stumbles on me, I have an entire archive of comic pages to point to when they ask me what I'm capable of drawing. It's the same reason I post stuff to my art-Tumblr. I've gotten multiple jobs through people stumbling on the silly goblin-pictures I post on Tumblr, for example.

Also, if I ever want to take my comic to Kickstarter or something for a bigger print-run, I'll have an established audience who will already know what they are going to be paying for.

For me I was approached by them, so I didn't actually go through a submission process. I had been working on my webcomic for a couple of years at that point and just happened to be going to a workshop that my now editor was also attending as an instructor. I tweeted something about the workshop and my tweet led him to my profile with my comic link on it.
Kind of a right-place-right-time situation, but also another good reason to keep up a nice looking website with your comic on it and always link back from your other social media pages! I also just happened to be working on the kind of story they were looking for (all ages kid friendly creator owned is a big market these days) which I think really helped.

I see your point, thanks a lot for sharing all this, I feel you all are quite right in what you said and that means that mostly we have to make our comics for free for a while before we are able to kickstart the printing of a volume or selling it elsewhere, or meanwhile get some income from Patreon or Tapastic ads and tipping... but dont you get the feeling that society is going backwards? I mean given the fact that there are many free comics to read everywhere we have to do the same strategy or else nobody will pay later, but in other markets its not like this, well allow me to put a silly example but... when I go for apples Im not allowed to take them and later decide if I want to pay for them or not. I know arts are a bit like that, like in the example with music and how we need to listen before buying or so but... is people taking advantage of us because we have no other choice but to let things go for free with the hope we later get paid? because this is somehow how I feel the current situation.

imo, it's a cultural shift due to the digital age allowing for greater accessibility. "Try before you buy" gained a ton of traction because suddenly, people could post content for free for others. And while I think it can absolutely be harmful when taken to an extreme (where people don't see the value in buying it and everyone's pirating your show/game/music/comic), by and large, I think it's stabilized. I will wager that most adults know that it takes money to make things, and even if they do enjoy something before buying it, most will buy the content when they have the means. I know I fall under that category. Not only that, I think it acts as quality control for some people--why invest money in something you're not sure you'll enjoy?

You're right that there are a lot of industries where this mindset doesn't apply, but that's only because it isn't/can't be digitized. Yes, it's unfair that a lot of artists aren't getting paid properly for their work, and I think it IS a problem. But there are also a lot of benefits. This freedom of purchase and endless accessibility allows people to freely choose content to support with a wider spectrum than they could before. It takes power away from the huge publishers that used to have a chokehold on the industry. This gave people like us a platform to share our work with millions of people, whereas before we would've had to print crappy ashcans and try to get published at a place that would pay you but take away creative and licensing rights. Self publishing just wasn't an option.

I think the biggest thing to remember is that it functions differently from many things, but that doesn't mean it's good or bad. This is the reality, and the tough part will be finding a way to take advantage of and benefit from it. Fighting against it won't help much.

tl;dr It has it's good and bad points but honestly I'm glad I live in this time period doing comics rather than 30+ years ago.

Think about it though. What's the alternative?

Before the internet, it wasn't easier for independent artists to get money for making the exact things they wanted to make. If I wanted to tell my story, had to convince someone in charge that my idea would sell. And if it was too different and he said "I just can't see that catching on," then I didn't have many options.

It's not as though back in Ye Olden Days, I would've been drawing my weird fantasy comic about a guy who's transforming into an eldritch horror going on weirdly goofy adventures with his best friend and a cranky necromancer AND getting paid for it. There was literally no option for me to get paid for that, because if an editor didn't believe there was an audience for it, I would not have the resources to distribute it. That story would live only in my head, or I'd stubbornly draw it for the sake of making it real with little hope of compensation or an audience wider than my own neighbours.

Heck, even in the days of patrons of the arts, artists had to do an awful lot of Bible Fanart for their patrons in order to get paid.

but NOW, it's an amazing new world where instead of being beholden to what some editor guy at a big publishing company thinks will sell, I can make that pitch myself, without his input ..... to the entire world. I can put my work out there for literally anyone to read and say, "hey, is this a story you would read? Is this something you want to spend money on?" the world can answer "yes" or "no" or "maybe just a little, because I want to see where this goes." I can go out and find the audience that the editors wouldn't believe existed. Or maybe there's not enough audience for my story to be worth it to the editors, but there might be enough to be worth it for me. It doesn't feel backwards to me! The fact that we now have the ability to tell exactly the story we want to tell, no one can stop us, and there are more and more resources (patreon, kickstarter, etc) for actually making that into a paying job is the most fantastic thing about the time we live in now!!

If you long for Ye Olden Days Of Editors, Marvel and DC and Dark Horse and whoever else still exist. Find a publishing company, find out what their requirements for unsolicited pitches are, and pitch them a story or apply for a job or go to a portfolio review and fight your way to getting noticed as a potential artist for their company. I don't say this to disparage -- it's a completely valid path, and for some folks it's The Dream to become the artist that company needs and get the chance to pencil spiderman!! But if you're imagining there was once a time where artists had both total creative freedom AND could demand an upfront sight-unseen price for their work, then I don't think that time has ever existed.

Thanks a lot for illustrating the situation, maybe as you said the situation we behold in comics or other arts is different from that in other industries, where people have to pay before they get the product (lets say a movie) and... I think I see the good point in current situation, meaning that we have this great freedom to tell the story we want without having to get any limits in that, even if we are wrong and our story is not good to anyone still we can make the shot.

Probably the only "not so good" thing I see in this situation is that to monetize our stories we have to go through a certain process in many steps, like patreon or kickstarter, of course no real adult or young adult thinks that comics self generate digitally alone with no effort or time put in them, but I think its relatively rare that a reader thinks and worries that he/she has to pay for the good read like he would worry to pay for printed comic in shop, I mean... based on what I learned from you all in this thread... we have to set some incentives or so most of the times, yes I know some people would pay just to make the continuation like $1 per month in patreon, but then there should be a built in mechanism in Tapastic that allows and encourages people to pay just if they enjoyed the comic to support the author and allow him/her to continue making what is good.

After all I have learned here Im opening a Patreon account, and we will see if it works for me, but even if it fails I can see the advantages of current era but... maybe it should evolve into something that still grants us freedom while makes people pay for what they get rather than allow them to think "all is free in internet".

1 month later