I totally understand what you mean. I saw your webcomic and using The Sims before Sketchup does seem to be the most efficient way to create your series. Its a good fit since the setting of your story is an urban one. But won't you have copyright issues for using The Sims assets?
imho there s a point missed....
yeha most of mangaka use 3d software to pose character or background BUT that it's done just to do the work quickly. not because they need to replace the lack of skill...
use them to learn it's quite damn cool, use it to cheat it's for lamers (plus: u ll never learn a lot of thing, and thats the real worst thing u can do)
jm2c.
You've got a point there, and it probably comes down to what you want to do with your life. If your goal is to one day be a working comic artist, relying on shortcuts to get the job done because you never learned how to do it without them is probably not a good strategy. For instance, what if you're required to one day draw something for which there is/can be no reference?
Each artist has to be honest about their own abilities and base their decisions on that.
For me personally, I'd say that 3D programs have become somewhat of a crutch for me, not in the sense that I wouldn't be able to do the work without them, but rather, I just wouldn't be able to do the work in any kind of timeframe that's acceptable to me. Because, by using Poser, I eliminate so many preliminary steps, and having so many years of traditional drawing behind me, I'm fine with that, and am not concerned about any possible negative effects on my abilities. In fact, I'm sometimes curious to see what kinds of results a less experienced artist could achieve using the method I'm using, which essentially involves skipping the sketching stage and diving straight into inking.
Well, I was mostly planning to put in my own furniture designs and details and everything as I was mostly planning to use it for the interior of houses, the Sims stuff would just be reference to help me get the layout/perspective right, but I don't know, ask the other people I've seen who use The Sims to help them. XP (Though I actually did wonder about this too.)
But it's for learning, right? So it's ok! To say "NO! YOU MUSN'T DO THAT" is like telling a kid it's not allowed training wheels on their bike, they have to learn without. Sure, they'll learn eventually but what's the harm in using the trainers? Or learning what a straight line is like without having the support of a ruler. Etc. So just to get your mind set on what you want to do and teaching your hand how to make it, there's nothing wrong in using tools like the Sims. Go for it! Note that you can't use any of it for commercial products, but for learning, heck yes.
I must have misunderstood then. But it did remind me of that famous scene from Mallrats. It always gives me a chuckle.
No, re-reading it I saw easily how I just assumed everyone would know my position, rather than actually clarifying myself. My intention way to say that anyone who thinks the inker's job is artless replication has never inked or doesn't understand what inking is.
And yeah, both Mallrats and Chasing Amy came to mind for me too.
Shorcuts are fine as long as you don't plagiarize and understand composition.
In 1999-2000 I seriously lacked confidence and did go on a Poser/3D modeler binge and felt compelled to build everything from 3D. Then, I had to be more productive for work and just dropped the 3D crutches.
I keep thinking that I should probably use a 3D app to help me speed up my backgrounds but I don,t need it anymore and it would slow me down! I totally understand how 3D can help many cartoonists but there is also the possibility of not needing it anymore!
Has anyone been off 3D apps/Poser? How was it for you?
Honestly in one of my latest pages I was very close to schedule and I kept messing up a character's hand, so I finally gave up and just took a picture of my hand and traced it. (Thankfully my hands are all bony and wonky, so they don't look too pretty among the ones I usually draw lol)
Generally I like working without reference, but when deadlines are coming up you gotta do what you gotta do. D:
Well I'm not necessarily "off" of using them (Blender is my weapon of choice), but I have found myself relying on them much less over time. I initially approached my comic thinking I'm going to use 3D to do everything from backgrounds to character posing and lighting, and then just paint/trace over them. However, I started picking up how things looked and getting a better understanding of perspective. As a result, I've needed 3D less and less because of what I learned while using it. I still have panels here and there that I used 3D for. Currently I still use it to get an idea of how a scene should be lit, or to figure out perspective for really busy or unusual angle shots.
On the flip-side though, I was educated as a 3D artist and I work more comfortably in 3D to lay out an environment and give an object texture and lighting. I like to use 3D as a way to plan out a space as an alternative to getting out the ruler and protractor to measure perspective lines until the sun comes up- BUT don't let that sound like I hate doing the ruler and vanishing points process because I find it to be relaxing.
Ok, I use DAZ3D for both of the comics I do the art on. I use very different techniques on them, however, so I'll break it down.
First, off, I am a traditional artist. Everything by hand. This is one of my pieces:
Just a drawing to prepare for a painting like that takes hours. Lots of reference pictures, things pinned all over the wall by my drawing board, etc. Then all of the work is done in watercolours, with a touch of coloured pencil and airbrush (shooting watercolours) for finishing up.
You are raving nuts if you think I am going to do that for a comic book. It takes me several weeks to do a painting like that (I actually work on several at a time) and it has to sell for a pretty penny for me to feel like my time was justified.
So for The Shadow War2, I use DAZ to pose the figures and the background, and shoot it as a line drawing. I then put the line drawing on a light box, put Bristol board over it, and ink it, making the changes that need to be made in the inking stage. Then I paint it jusing a fairly fast version of my more detailed watercolour techniques. Then I do a few digital touchups, and post it. I can do a page like this in less time than it takes me to do a drawing for a painting.
And then for Warmage, I do everything in DAZ and GIMP with finishes in Comic Life 3. This is the latest page for that:
For Warmage, I am only concerned with telling the story, so that is simply the fastest way for me to tell a story.
I will do my traditional art for myself and my customers. For my comics, I want to use what shortcuts I can that get what I want onto the page, because the deadlines, time constraints, and eagerness to get it done are all real.
Eagle
(Artistic jack of all trades)
I wouldn't care about growing as an artist rather than about cliche backgrounds that you'll get this way. References are important but in my opinion such tricks restrict your imagination.
You're truly right, especially when they have to meet dead lines. A lot of manga artist show how they do each page too
I set my comic in my home town so I could go around and take my own photos for background shots. Usually I have them taped to my wall for reference, but if I need a really detailed background in a shorter amount of time, I'll take one of my photos and trace over it with a light board. I don't trace it exactly how it is in the photo, just the lines that are important to the structure, then I change its appearance to my liking afterwards.
It certainly isn't lazy, and it still takes a lot of time and concentration just to do that. If I ever want to add more buildings, I'll find the perspective point in the photo and go from there.
As long as the short cut doesn't make your art look half-assed, then do what you need to do.
I don't think it's necessarily cheating. As long as you've drawn the backgrounds yourself, that's okay. Always take in as much inspiration as you can!
On the other hand, if you're using the backgrounds from anywhere else .. maybe that's being lazy. It's always nice to push yourself! ^_^
In my upcoming webcomic I traced over a pic of a Prius. There was just NO WAY I was going to gobble up tons of time trying to draw this thing on a screen(I'm drawing the comic digitally). I think I skimped enough on it so that it could fit with my art style...for the most part, I usually draw out most of my backgrounds.
Like a couple other posts stated- you've chose to be a comic artist. Doesnt matter whether you're a industry pro, or small independent artist- as webcomic artists you're trying to get your page/story done within a certain time frame, and unlike industry pros who have been around for a while, we dont have tons of books and/or reference photos...so you have to do whatever you can to give you an edge towards getting your work(s) done by a deadline. If it's using 3D programs, tracing a certain pose, or using model pose material, then it's helping you get the job done.
In your spare time if you wanna get better at doing art the traditional way, then do so...but if you want to make a job or make a pretty penny out of doing comics, then you better be willing to take some shortcuts to get the work done.
I think using sketchup and 3D models are fine if you want to beat deadlines =) If you want it to make it more yours, just do a rough sketch of the 3D render, toss/hide away the layer with the 3D ref and just do your line art on your own rough sketch. The result might not be getting a too much of a traced look then. I've done this a few times to get cars looking right and whatnot.
With that said, it's always good to do studies too! But with tight deadlines, it can be better to just use 3D refs and such =)
Lazy art makes me a lazy reader meaning I'll just skip it and move on to something else.
BUT, I use a lot of tools in my own art as well. There's nothing wrong with doing whatever you can to get a good result. Don't call it cheating or shortcuts, it's all about delivering a nice end result. The most important aspect is aesthetics. If you can make it work as a whole then it's golden.
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