Sorry! Heres a better explanation as to what went wrong and some suggestions for the community as a whole to make this website more accessible for everyone

[Sky-Chau]

So recently I made a few forum posts about a comic style, and responded rather poorly to some crit.

Now for those of you who aren't aware I'm autistic and have ADHD. This is not an excuse and I'm so sorry i just wanna curl into a ball and die. But I think yalls as a community gotta understand how the hell I got to this point and how the culture of this forum could be made more accessible to the growing number of neurodivergent creators.

My autism makes it hard to read intent. And as an autistic person who's been to a public school I've learned to always be on a sharp lookout for condescension as I get a lot of it. When people explain things to me that I already know (and internalize to be common knowledge) I take it as condescension. The amount of times people have talked to me like a dog is more than I would like to admit. So when some guy came in and gave me a long crit stating things I already knew like "it looks unpolished/unfinished" and treated it as common knowledge with some thing along the lines of "it's a faux pas in the digital art community to do this thing" when I am a member of that community and already knew the things. it raised soooooo many red flags in my autistic hell brain. It took me a whole 24 hours to realize this dude wasn't trying to treat me like a dog.

The worse the autism the more likely a person is to be hyperaware of the possibility of condescension and passive aggressive statements. For us it's a sort of survival instinct.

Another important thing to be aware of is RSD (rejection sensitive dysphoria) which is a kind of depression/anxiety that is exclusive to people with ADHD. You see adhd is kind of an oddball, its comorbid with fucking everything under the sun, alters behaviors and emotions in ways that very clearly overlap with bipolar disorder and a whole host of personality disorders. It's also laughable how poorly ADHD is named.

Do you have a hard time reading?
Get easily attached to specific things?
Experience constant social rejection even amongst people who are literally not rejecting you?
Do you run out of mental energy quickly?

Congrats you have "trouble sitting still" disorder.

Heres Web MDs explaination of what RSD is because I do not have the words:

What Is Rejection Sensitive Dysphoria?

You see how this made in my head, the critique seem like bad news. The dude was covered in red flags and then had the audacity to suggest I change things about my project (and by ADHD hellbrain logic the project is an extension of the self). I kind freaked out.

In real life I take art crits all the time without much issue from RSD. That's what happens in college art classes. The formatting on there is alot nicer and in gonna make most of my suggestions based on what works well there.

So how do we make the Tapas forums more friendly for neurodivergent folks (and by extension everyone else because the curb cut effect is absolutely worthwhile)?

1) as standard practice: ask before you crit. Consent is important, not all pieces are crit ready, please respect that. Also dont comment on the fact that a person isn't open to criticism, it could be autism it could be an unfinished peice not ready for crit. You're not entitled to know why because it's not really your business.

2) when you do crit, start with the positives, it really helps us distinguish friends from foe in terms of intent.

3) end crits on a high note. A simple "have a nice day :D" really helps, and is just improves the overall mood of a forum.

4) dont actually be a foe. Idk why I have to say this but apparently some people on here don't seem to understand that being condescendingly passive aggressive is not the behavior of people who have the best interests of others in mind.

5) if you must be an asshole at least have the decency to copy paste a Google image of a cute cat into all of your responses. You owe people that much.

6) dont comment just to agree with someone and reword what was said. Its redundant and just kinda clogs up the board with discourse.

7) I cannot overstate how much emoticons help communication. Get in the habit of using them more often.

8) when introducing features to new users phrase it as a "Hey look at this cool thing" rather than a "you should have used this"

9) in forums like this where you straight up can't delete topics, you gotta be extremely forgiving because that shit will haunt the topics author for. Longer than could ever reasonably be considered just.

10) learn when to leave people alone, if a forum author seems upset by your commentary, stop interacting with the topic. It costs 0$ to take a hint and leave.

11) just like dont harass people.

[dawgofdawgness]

I agree that this forum kind of has a habit of dogpiling people they don't agree with, or see as rude or even a "threat". People can get redundant and overwhelming with their opinions and it can soon start to feel like harassment from a giant mob of people. This (from what I can tell) has been a problem for a pretty long time and I THINK I can say that at least we're getting better and not swarming controversial ideas with posts. But yeah you're not the first one to be dogpiled like this, and while I can see why people got upset in the first place, the problem should've been diffused much quicker.
I have to say that while the community gets along pretty nicely for the most part, it's a little bit of an echochamber sometimes.

[DualDragons]

I'm sorry for how i came over on your last thread, perhaps i was a bit passively aggressive indeed and some of the other guys as well.

It might not look like it, but i only want to help with whatever question you have
And this probably counts for other too. I think it was a problem of miscommunication which caused things to escalate.

I hope we can start again with a clean slate and properly welcome you to the forums

[yansusu]

I think it's good you're taking the time to make this post and explain. It also helps other people to understand some matters better for the future Especially the suggestions for how to go about things better in the future.
There's just one thing I'm not sure I'd agree with but maybe I'm thinking of something different than you. It's this one:

6) dont comment just to agree with someone and reword what was said. Its redundant and just kinda clogs up the board with discourse.

I think I do understand where you're coming from but I personally like to see people state if they agree with somebody else. Like, if I'm asking for some ideas on something and people were mostly of the same opinion and so nobody was saying anything more after the first response I'd probably feel kinda lost and thus worse as if the second person went "Ah, yes, I'm of a similar opinion" and then just explained where it might differ slightly. Because this way, I can see better what others think and might have an easier time to form my own opinion which is why I'd post on the forum in the first place.

[KidJake]

Or how about we don't expect the entire forum to change because you got upset and if you don't like something in the future, just don't respond?

[BobbyjoeX]

unfortunately, i disagree with a lot of things you have said. sure, people on here can be assholes but this is too much

Firstly, you say people with autism all think like that, which is very very VERY far from the truth, I know because im autistic, Please don't speak for me

Secondly, you are saying if you have ADHD you have whatever that you have, Please, don't diagnose me

and Lastly, the list, you are basically telling people how to act on a public forum when no one else had that big of an issue before. you are also not thinking about Other people's disabilities. i have Opositinal Defiant Disorder (ODD). this makes that list a thing to defy, despise, not follow...purposely. so you saying to treat you a certain way because of your disability, well i dont have to follow your list because of mine.

if this is a huge problem, maybe learn control before going on a public forum

[byelacey]

First of all, I think that being more considerate and finding the time and place for criticism is valid! From what I understand from the previous topics, you invited criticism when you asked people if they would read a comic in a style you presented. I can understand if you didn't realize that, and I'm sorry if you were upset!

I've seen many topics lately about "why aren't you reading my comic", etc, from more than one person, and I've just gotta say: chasing after people who aren't interested in your particular brand is really unhealthy. Not everyone's going to like what you do and that's something you need to be okay with if you're posting content online.

Focus less on why people aren't reading and more on promoting yourself to folks who might!

[phoenixrenaissance]

I only want to say, you cannot control how other people treat you, you can only control how you respond to it.

I also think it's in a bit poor taste to have created so many topics stemming from the same initial drama. The whole issue could have been over with sooner if you weren't repeatedly exposing people to it.

[gempompadour]

I agree (lol). Input from people agreeing can be just as fruitful as people disagreeing.

And I have my issues with the first point as well, because a critique and an opinion often seem to be the same thing here on Tapas. To me it sounds weird that someone would have to ask OP's consent to give an answer to a question they asked. Trigger warnings are a thing for a reason. I think it would be better for the person with the problem to clearly state what they're seeking. You don't want a lengthy analysis and prefer a simple yes or no answer? Then say that. The work you're showing is not finished and only a fluff piece? Just say that. I don't know if the pic is critique ready or not. I'm taking it at face value and giving my honest opinion. No-one's going to get angry (or hurt!) when OP lays all the cards on the table and sets the rules on how people should behave in their topic thread.

[IndigoShirtProd]

I already apologized for my being inconsiderate to your situation (this is also going to be a long post, sorry​). The problem was that your original post lacked context. You've only been on this forum for a little under a week so you may not be privy to the ins and outside of how people interact here. @BobbyjoeX and @vothnthorvaldson are both creators on here who are on the autism spectrum. They both have been fine, for the most part, mainly because they recognize that while they're autism may be an obstacle to clear communication, they won't let ot keep them from getting the interactions they want and having a good time on the forum. I don't want to speak for them, that's just my perspective. When I say your first post lacked context, I mean you didn't inform people you didn't want criticism or that you're on the autism spectrum and have RSD. Darthmongoose always responds with long form criticism so they had no idea what their response was going to do.

I don't agree with your points on how to respond to posts on here because it places the burden on responders. What I mean is that, it should not only be up to the people responding to a post to be considerate of other people's situations. If you do have a form of disability that could effect how people perceive, then it is up to you to make others known. It's important to meet people halfway, something that I think your not willing to do.

1) People will post what they want: if you don't explicitly say 'no criticism' people will assume that it'sfree real estate
2 & 3) People will give critiques the way they want to. Not everyone will sugar coat or be indirect when giving criticism.
4) Sarcasm and passive-aggression can be horrible. I should know. However, that's just how some people talk. Sometimes they can't help it.
5) we're skipping this one.
6) this I can get behind only if more than two have reiterated the same statement. It does become redundant.
7) we're skipping this one too
8) I still think you should've used this cool thing called a poll
9)just be careful of what you choose to say in those topics.
10) that's true, but this still bothers me. And while I have access to a keyboard (and a new topic you made on your volition) it'sfreerealestate
11)

[ISNEKO]

I'm gonna go ahead and state that I didn't read the other relevant thread and if it's really long I don't wanna, but you can't assume to dictate how others should conduct themselves.

This whole thing sounds like you weren't exactly clear in what you wanted, got very upset that you heard what you didn't want to hear, and then explained that our forum is bad for people.

Also, just like in real life, if you think you'll have stuff come up because of behavioral conditions, shouldn't the whole thing be prefaced with that fact? I'm not going to respond to a person who asked me a question, then suddenly change what I said because they explain it makes them trigger after the fact, but it might have served for a better delivery.

shrug

If you want something from this forum, being INCREDIBLY SPECIFIC usually helps.

[UrMom]

You know, this whole situation was a mess. People online tend to forget we're all humans with flaws, that we all make mistakes and how that's okay as long as we learn from them, or don't hurt anyone in the process. Your response to darth was rude, but it certainly did not warrant people othering and dog-piling you in an attempts to break you down as if you did something unspeakably monstrous.

You can call me bias. I'm socially anxious, highly depressive, paranoid and was raised by a parent who unintentionally instilled stress and negativity into me at a young age. I tend to be blunt and pessimistic out of habit, which I've been working on being better, but I've still got a long road ahead of me and I make a lot of social mistakes. I know I don't fit in and people on here have made it extremely clear that I don't, so I empathize with you in this situation.
I've also been around Autistic people, specifically I've babysat Autistic kids before and I have a lot of respect for people like yourself, I also understand that your brains work differently than the average joe. I'm sure my responses to you have not been perfect, but hey, at least I can comprehend where you're coming from due to my experiences and won't be a total douche if you're a little salty. Lol

At the end of the day people online are going be dicks to people who are different, that's how it's always been, that's how it always will be. Everyone feeds on melodrama and will blow tiny problems up into massive behemoths. I highly doubt anyone here will change to fit your needs, because that's just how people are. It sounds mean, but that's the sad fact of the internet and free speech, people will act and talk how they want and you can't expect them to change for a stranger.

Don't let this scare you out of trying to get your work out there, because pushing yourself to get your eyes on the things you put your blood, sweat and tears into can be extremely rewarding! But if you are going to start venturing into open ranges like this (forums, twitter, instagram, etc) I would suggest setting up a means to mentally prep and cool yourself down, like making a playlist to listen to, setting up a dedicated mental cool down area in your home if you don't have one already, or get stress toys. Because you will get assholes and unsolicited criticism the more you put yourself out there, it's a guarantee, and the more you fight them the more they'll come at you.

Sorry if you've heard this already, or don't find it particularly useful. Everyone deals with things their own way. Drawing helps me deal with issues, so do what works best for you.
Good luck with your endeavors! Have a nice day, I'll look forward to seeing more of your projects in the future if you continue posting.

[Kelheor]

As much as I do like using emoticons, putting a rainbow of smiley faces and GIFs with cute kittens and sugarcoating everything is just not a thing for many people. Especially since a lot of people here are over the age of 25 years, they do love their period marks. It doesn't mean they are being rude or unfriendly, they just don't feel like they need to use them

Also it's actually pretty bad if a person is telling you shit while smiling and showing you a kitty. Maybe it makes some people with some mental health issues feel better, but overall they are not just being more rude, but also demeaning.

[darthmongoose]

Darthmongoose always responds with long form criticism so they had no idea what their response was going to do.

Haha, yeeeeah, I'm austistic and I like to be as precise as possible. Sometimes I ramble, but to me, putting time and care into a thing and covering every angle is a sign of respect. I care very deeply about every little cog in the works of making a comic. I won't lie if there's a problem, especially if there's a clear and actionable solution, but I'd never put a person down to be malicious. Neurotypical people often lie a lot; they lie to be mean, they lie to flatter somebody to make themselves seem likeable or get favours... I don't do that. If I pay you a compliment, it means you genuinely did good, and if I tell you there's a problem, I want you to fix it and succeed.

People often think I'm a bit blunt, and that's fair. Sometimes I forget that online I come across very differently from in real life where I'm really small, hate noisy environments, bad at making eye contact and very soft-spoken. Sometimes there are misunderstandings; men try to tone police me a lot IRL, particularly because I have an accent from a working class area, so it tends to rile me up a bit against my better judgement. Sometimes I do snap at people when I'm pissed and I'll admit, that's an area where I need to be careful. All that said, I just feel like it's so condescending to be like:

"Hi, you gorgeous cinnamon bun! I think you've done so well to be thinking about making a comic! Omg well done! There are a few teeny weeny things you could do to make it even better but they're totes optional and you don't have to listen to lil' ol' me, it's just one girl's opinion after all! Here's a picture of a kitten! "

Like... I dunno who this person is, but she's not me, she sounds incredibly patronising and I don't trust her. In my experience, most of the people who have been meanest to me, or backstabbed me have talked to me in this cutesy, insincere way. They're fake friends, they don't have your best interests at heart, all they care about is you liking them. I don't want people to like a fake version of me who pretends to be nice to people; I want people to like the real me, who you can always rely on to think very carefully about your problem, try to find the root cause, and give the best advice I can.

So if that's the behaviour that's wanted? I'm just not gonna post on OP's threads. I give honest, considered advice based around ability level and over a decade of experience and study, with no bullshit and compliments you can feel like you earned.

[TAMAnnoying]

In my experience of working with autistic children they do not want to be treated differently then other kids so you’ll have to excuse me if I ignore most of your “rules of edict”

I will not treat anyone differently because of anything you might have, I have this thing I believe in called equality and treating everyone like a mature adult.

If you’re mental issues are truly a problem with communication then you need to state it in a mater that is clear so people can respond to you properly. I’ve been reading these threads and you just didn’t do that in your first thread. That’s your own fault and you need to take responsibility for that. Your second thread was much better but it came off as very passive aggressive (something you seem to be against so people would have conflicting feelings about you after that fact).

I’m very happy you’ve taken the time to explain yourself and it’s a good first step to rekindling any burned bridges this might have caused, but you cannot and will not be able to control how other people act or feel and you have to accept that on a public forum.

Please take care of yourself and have a happy new year, be safe.

[IndigoShirtProd]

I don't mean to speak for others. I was just giving my perspective. What I meant was that you didn't know your initial post was going to turn into this four thread thing.

@TAMAnnoying and I also didn't want to treat sky-chau any differently than other people. I do recognize though that I was being inconsiderate in later posts. But that's how I honestly felt.

[Sky-Chau]

The points are meant to guide how we interact with people on this forum as a whole.

I honestly dont think it would hurt this forum if everyone were nicer to everyone

[KidJake]

But you have no right to dictate how the forum as a whole acts, only the way that YOU react. If your mental illness requires people treat you a specific way, and only that way, then maybe you shouldn't expose yourself to new people; because you're really not important enough for strangers to walk on eggshells for.

[Sky-Chau]

I don't think everyone being nicer to everyone on on this forum is going to be anything but an improvement.

[KidJake]

The problem is that what you consider nice, doesn't mesh with what I consider nice. Someone taking the time to give me their personal insight into my work is pretty damned nice in my opinion. Your constant tantrums on the other hand, is not.