Spider-Man x MJ over for good? I give it three months

[MK_Wizard]

In regards to Marvel's decision to break up Mary Jane and Peter for good, my take on it is: this is just another storm that is going to pass. It will not stick and deep down, Marvel knows it.

Stan Lee (rest his soul) cleverly wrote the couple in a such way that no matter how they develop, their paths always cross and they will always have this bond that has become a part of their character. Peter and MJ will NEVER stay separated.

So it is going to be ok. The breakup won't be permanent and won't work. It never does and deep down, Marvel knows it and will come around to accepting it. In the meantime, let's just take a break. Maybe we can make pudding together?

What about all of you, do you agree that this breakup isn't going to stick? They've broken them up before and always, always, ALWAYS they wind up falling for each other.

[thepenmonster]

For a very short year the X-Men were the most interesting they had been for two decades. The idea of a group of people, who had at been genocided at least five times within a few years in their time frame, using their gifts to try and make a safe home for themselves was rich with possibilities.

All the other writers got of of it was a cool new X-Base to keep doing the same old shit from. Now the mutants are all genodiced again and back to a status quo that was tired in the 1990s.

I bring all of this up to point out that someone is going to come along and decide Peter & MJ stuck in their dating phase is set in stone after all. Because there is no growth in cape comics. Just the illusion of change.

tl;dr - Reed Richards will always be useless.

[MK_Wizard]

Eh. Times change and people can surprise you including writers.

I think people will realize that being happily married is not the end and there is still a lot of interesting character growth and stories to tell. The right person just has to come along and do it. And I have that it will happen because we see in independent writers all the time.

There IS growth in cape comics. I mean, we used to think J.J. Jameson would never stop hating on Spider-Man and blaming for everything, but then when he learned he was Peter, he genuinely regretted his action, look inwards and repented.

[LostKelp]

Oh MCU wise? Uhhh, idk maybe? Zendaya prolly got too expensive and I think Sony was like "OK Disney, you've had your fun. Now we want him back."

Comic book wise there's been a whole ass comic announced about them just being a family (Pete's got a beard now) and spiderverse has them married with a baby. So you really aren't being starved for peterxmj content. As for the MCU? Maybe they'll have a crack at killing Gwen Stacy, or that one cat woman he sometimes dates, maybe they'll have a new character, maybe he'll hookup with Deadpool in the inevitable universe merger. Although Tom Holland and Ryan Reynolds would make for an odd couple (I could see Andrew Garfield doing it though).

Maybe MJ(zendaya) and Peter(holland) will get back together, but personally I think it'll be fun to see if the cat lady shows up, maybe Gwen Stacy won't die this time! Maybe with all the multiverse shagganaganery there will be self-cest on the table, I mean, if loki can get it why not Pete? Idk, maybe it'll be interesting.

[Kuma]

@MK_Wizard Stan Lee didn't wrote MJ and Peter, he wrote Gwen and Peter and he did half of the job, with Ditko and Romita Sr. being involved. Plus he just started Gwen's tenure, he didn't finish writing that, in fact the writers at the time asked permission to him to kill Gwen. MJ was a side character that slowly developed from a party girl to a responsible adult when she started consoling Peter after Gwen's death, a while after Lee stopped writing.

During the 90's every writer fucking hated MJ, like a lot. They wanted to make Peter ditch her at any given chance and made MJ look like a shrill douchebag half of the time, they even split apart. Only Straczynski got them back together to get blindsided by Quesada causing One More Day.

@LostKelp yeah, Ultimate Spider-man. (Rumors say this Peter gets powers as an adult, rather than as a teen)

[MK_Wizard]

I can accept these facts, but these two have so much character development that plays too well off of each other. The fans may have been against things at one time, but even then, the chemistry was always there. Some things are just meant to happen and I can't help, but notice, every time they break up, they wind up together again. It's a pattern.

Writers may not have liked MJ or like her now, but things change. Like I said, everyone thought a lot of things would stick, but they didn't Doc Ock became straight and narrow for good, Aunt May found out about Peter being Spider-Man, Jameson's opinion changed when he learned the truth, and so much more.

Also, at one point, even writers accept that some things are just a constant point and make peace with it. A lot of writers didn't like MJ, but now they're warming to her and even giving her an arc. To me, that's progress and the first step to accepting. And like I said, these two always wind up getting back together. Something between them will change for good, but in the form of the writers accepting they are what they are and stop breaking them up, and finally letting them be happy together. These two play too well off of each other.

At least that's what I'm seeing.

[Kuma]

I'm pro MJ and Peter, don't get me wrong, I was just commenting on the story of their relationship.

Aunt May has regressed back to not knowing Peter's identity.

MJ had arcs before (Much better than gaining super powers and kinda cucking Peter), this is a pattern that never ends, because for roughly 10 years they have been coming and going with no end in sight.

90's writers hated here, not current ones, but editorial has the final say and editorial has been effing Spider-man for like 15 years.

[MK_Wizard]

Yeah, but... you can only dodge destiny for so long which is why I like to believe it will be all the more satisfying.

[ThunderChicken]

Imma just sit here shipping Peter and Harry as always...

[Kuma]

Editorial decides destiny.

[thepenmonster]

Peter Parker needs a Doctor Who-like period of time in The Culture Vault*. The most interesting he has been in the past few decades was when his body was taken over by Doc Oc and that means he hasn't been interesting.

Miles and the rest of the Spider Family should be the focus these days IMO. To hell with the old coots demanding the funny books repeat their childhoods.

And yes, I think Batman was at its best this century when it was Dick and Damien.

---

*This is for people who constantly "wut?" my comments: The Culture Vault is when some piece of media gets so overdone that people are sick of it. It goes away from the public's radar, but it might come back decades later with new appreciation of it.

A good recent example of this would be Kate Bush's Running Up That Hill.

Thankfully Aserejé is still in the vault.

[MK_Wizard]

Well... time will tell, but I've seen this happen again and again, and it never sticks shrugs Honestly, it doesn't even hurt me anymore. I'm honestly more annoyed that they keep trying to find more and more outlandish ways to break them up to the point where it's obvious that even they know they're fighting a losing a battle. Besides, at one point, they're going to be replaced. So that alone is when things are finally going to change.

I mean... having to bring Mephisto into the story to force Spidey x MJ to break up? I hate disrespecting writers, but when I told my mother about it (and she's a woman in her 60s), she burst out laughing saying "Yeah, the devil himself wants to break up Spider-Man and Mary Jane" In other words, she thought I was joking and even a bystander like her sees this type of writing as wish fulfillment. It's negative wish fulfillment, but that's what it is and more importantly, it's not selling. Sales are lower than ever and at one point, people will stop reading Spider-Man altogether. At that point, if Editorial is smart, it will have to accept what the fans want and write well even if it means accepting things they don't like.

And I say this as someone who had to do things she didn't like in her writing, but accepted the story was better for it.

[Kuma]

I hate sounding like a broken record, but the whole selling the marriage to the devil thing? That was editorial, the writer of the issue left the last issue and the editor had to step in. Quesada, the editor, hated the marriage and said that made Peter look "older and less relatable" when 75% of his readers were more or less the same age as Peter.

Editorial isn't smart, because they keep... fucking.. up. They're literally defending the actual run in which MJ cucked Peter. They were in a relationship and she ended up having two children with another guy in another dimension.

Both Marvel and DC are in freefall for the last years and they keep doing the same shit expecting a different result. Manga sales are exterminating Comics sales. There are singular manga series that sell more than the combined comic-book market just in the US.

@thepenmonster He just needs better writers and a less idiotic editorial direction.

And "Asereje" never left, like "La Macarena". It learned its place and exists in marriage reception parties and boomer oriented clubs.

[MK_Wizard]

Pardon me. I didn't mean to come across as someone who ignored your words. I didn't.

I have made a vow not to speak badly about people online so... I won't. Not even the editor of Marvel. My only reply to what is going on now is that sometimes, just like in fiction, titans need to fall in order to rise. It's sad when it happens and if you could believe it, I don't want Marvel to fall, but perhaps this is the only way it will learn and smarten up. All great companies have rough patches, but even now, we're seeing them see the error of their ways and attempting to do better. However, making amends is going to take time within itself.

My best advice to people is to take a break from Marvel, DC and such until this huge storm is over and it will be over. Once it is, the slate will be clean and either the editors will turn over a new leaf, or we'll have new editors that will make things right. Either way, it will get better because love (whether it is between MJ and Spidey or the love we still harbor for the big names even now) conquers all

It always gets worse before it gets better, but it still does get better. People can change and learn the error of their ways. The editors are not the exception. They're human too after all.

[AmazementComics]

I'm mostly convinced that they're trying their hardest to de-love interest Mary Jane. Nick Lowe would have grown up reading 90s comics. He probably hates the marriage and hates Mary Jane--she as depicted so poorly back then as writers trashed her because they had no idea how to write a female character without ripping off gaudy soap operas.

Lowe's been a Marvel company man since he was an intern and has probably drunk the KoolAid to ensure his promotions through the succession planning favouritism.

I have zero confidence that ASM will ever be good. Even if there's another Nick Spencer-style run, people will be wary of it and not trust that it's 'for keeps' before editorial get bored and undo it all again.

The Spider-Man brand is doomed to very slowly stagnate while people keep retelling the same stories based off the same 70s and 80s comics. in the next few years, we'll all be watching Peter Parker struggle with his Daily Bugle job yet again, fighting Venom or Green Goblin. No amount of forcing Paul onto Spider-Man lore will make third parties want to include him in their takes on Spider-Man.

[MK_Wizard]

That's a shame because a character can still be compelling and have depth while being another character love. The whole point of love is that it doesn't change you after all and it makes me said that people feels that way. And I hope that Mr. Lowe doesn't feel that way about marriage to the point where he writes to spite it because if he does, I feel bad for him.

I don't think the fate of Spider-Man is that bleak because the lore is stronger than bad writing even if the comics do end on a low note because there is so much Spider-Man media out that that has cemented itself in comic book history. The bad moments or even future bad moments will never overshadow the best moments including that shining moment MJ and Spidey were happily married.

As for things changing, they will even Lowe doesn't. He will eventually retire and someone new will come along. And who knows? Maybe when he sees how many new opportunities there are when you allow characters to grow up, he'll change his mind on his own time.