Stories about social outcasts/journeying out of loneliness

[Nugtown]

This idea of what defines loneliness feels like it comes from a very cut off space and I find that interesting. These things are in the head to an extent. I always had strong beliefs about the difference between what it means to be lonely and what it means to be in solitude, because it always seemed like lonliness required the longing for human connections, while solitude is for lack of a better term enjoyment despite independance from others. A man can enjoy the freedom of total isolation, being happy in solitude is freedom from loneliness.

I have always lived as an outcast myself for one reason or another and still am in most of my ways. I'm a hermit. Even when I wasn't I certainly felt a deep lonliness even when I was surrounded by others since I can't connect well with anyone online or off. This happens to a lot of people and everyone around them just assumes they are fine until something bad happens.
Many people see the growth of being lonely to being extroverted as the obvious answer to make a happy story. But I find that the transition of a character from being sheltered and feeling lonely like he is totally dependant on other people to tell him how to live or what to like or dislike, to a person who can maintain a level of independance and even learn to enjoy time cut away from the world and people makes for an even better story.

[cherrystark]

Because in my experience, I feel it's given me this weird expectation whenever I enter into a new group of people, especially now that I'm an adult, switching jobs and being introduced to different communities more often. I'm always looking at each new person wondering if they are going to be that 'special connection' that changes my entire life, my first experience of """real""" friendship. After all, that's how it works in stories, right??

I struggled with this same thing in my own life. Stories made it seem like in high school, you were supposed to have one best, best friend who was basically like your sibling whom you're co-dependant upon and a rag-tag group of weirdos who were your ride or dies. That didn't happen with me, my BFF broke my trust and I haven't spoken to her since. My group of friends in college changed semester to semester, and making friends as an adult is like being back in school again. No magic BFF has come to save me from my loneliness.

As I've learned more about myself, I learned that I am okay being alone. I need solitude to recharge, but that doesn't stop me from making social connections. If I want friends, I have to make them.

In terms of storytelling, I think people use it as an easy way to "other" their characters to make them more sympathetic, while glazing over major plot holes. For example, the MC could be clearly abused by group A, but group B is clearly better because they're more accepting. I wish there was a clean-cut way to fix it.

[ButterflyEmpress]

The only story that comes to mind that touches on this is Watamote. The main character Kuroki wants to be cute and popular, but doesn't get it in the end (in the anime; not sure how the manga goes).

I remember an episode when Kuroki relates to an anime character who was lonely like her until a classmate came by which caused a relationship to blossom. In reality, that never happens since someone sitting alone minding their business usually means "Don't bother me" which is why she doesn't get that same experience as that character.

In my case(and Kuroki's), no one will be my friend, I have to be their friend, but since I'm introverted, social interactions are mentally draining which makes it hard to bother. Those kinds of stories make socializing seem easier than it really is since someone else is doing the work.

[DokiDokiTsuna]

Certain stories don't bring in an audience. Depressive stories, which being alone is usually seen as depressive, don't sell.

1. Never said anything about wanting to write a "depressing" story (If anything, I said the opposite)
2. Never said anything about "selling" (???)
3. Y'know, it's entirely possible to want to write a story that just details a human experience you're familiar with, and hope that someone out there will connect with it or just enjoy it, without any major expectations beyond that...? Y'know, just the normal drive to create that most storytellers experience...??

The fact that the type of story I want to write isn't popular does not factor into my decision-making, outside of the thought that "hey, most people don't do this idea...maybe I should try". Like, that's literally it. :T
And I honestly find it a little...sad, that your first assumption is that if an idea doesn't have a good chance to "sell" (imagine giving capitalism that much control over your art...) with the mainstream public, then the only real reason to write it is "self-therapy". Which...isn't actually a thing everyone does. ._. I don't.

TL;DR, artistic expression/exploration exists, and believe it or not many people still create with that in mind. I really think you should be aware of that if you're going to interact with other artists.

P.S. Depressing stories actually DO sell, even in the mainstream. Tragedy has been a whole genre for thousands of years, and people regularly flock to novels, documentaries and films chronicling depressing, tragic, horrible incidents, especially when they're based on real life. Even if I intended to write a depressing story on this topic (which, again, I don't) it wouldn't be weird or out of line.

I really wish people would stop saying "NoBoDy LiKeS dEpReSsInG StOrIeS" whenever I bring up these social issues, because it's so blatantly untrue that it feels like a pathetic attempt at censorship. Imagine saying this to someone who wanted to write about surviving illness, or abuse, or living in poverty, or losing a loved one-- all "depressing" subjects that people write about all the time and are regularly celebrated for. But somehow THIS subject is off-limits. THIS one crosses the line. Just the idea of living alone is too much for audiences to handle. Please, just give it up. T_T Find another mark, because I'm not stupid enough to actually believe you.

Those kinds of stories make socializing seem easier than it really is since someone else is doing the work.

^Oooh, that's something I actually forgot about, but very true. ^^ In fact, it's probably the major factor that makes these stories unlikeable to me, the idea that all you have to do to make a friend, as an introvert, is wait for an extraverted person to walk over and "adopt" you (infantilizing neurodivergent people ftw...), and make all the effort in the relationship so you don't have to.

It's actually a concept that I legitimately...hate. Like, with the burning fury of a thousand suns. ^^;;; Because I've been in "friendships" like that before, and they actually really suck. It's not obvious at first, and of course it's convenient to automatically have someone to hang out with and do societally-mandated social activities with, but 'convenience' isn't enough to build a friendship on, and eventually it will show.

Eventually you will realize that you:
a) Always have to do what the extraverted friend wants to do, because you either don't feel confident enough in the relationship to make your own suggestions, or you're so used to solitary activities you don't even have anything to suggest. =/ Oh well.
b) May not even actually like this person or have anything in common with them, but feel like rejecting them would be too mean. After all, they did you the honor of trying to be your friend, so you should be grateful, right?? It's not like you'd be fine hanging out by yourself if there's no one around that you actually WANT to spend time with....oh wait...

It's just a situation that breeds resentment and toxicity, especially if the person "adopting" you actually sees themselves as the superior in the relationship, and does not respect your opinions or your right to say "no" (which...I've also dealt with, unfortunately).
Every time I've had a friendship like this, it's either come to a sudden abrupt end, or it's slowly and painfully fizzled out because I just ran out of energy to keep dealing with the person, had no idea how to articulate that in a socially-acceptable way, and started to feel helpless and desperate to get away from them.

...So yeah. Not a fan of those portrayals of "easy friendship". :T

[BoomerZ]

Pretty sure you want to argue to just argue about this. When I say sell, I meant in the overall term to "buy" it. It has nothing to do with money. There is nothing wrong to just make a comic for yourself or the possibility of a small group of people to read it. And to say people flock to tragedies for thousands of years doesn't hold water as just look at tapas or webtoons or even hollywood as see what is making money. Money shows what people like as they willingly paid to go see it. It's a way of voting for what you like. I never said the subject is off limits, I say go into with your eyes open to the outcome.

Finally, all your artistic expression talk smacks of elitism. I never said you shouldn't have it but somehow you think I need to become aware that some people still have it. That is not only rude but you imply I don't "get it". No one is censoring you. If you post in a forum, expect people to respond to you with their outlook. Just because its not the outlook you want shouldn't make you defensive. It's a public forum. It's not your forum.

[DokiDokiTsuna]

When I say sell, I meant in the overall term to "buy" it. It has nothing to do with money.

And to say people flock to tragedies for thousands of years doesn't hold water as just look at tapas or webtoons or even hollywood as see what is making money. Money shows what people like as they willingly paid to go see it. It's a way of voting for what you like.

...OK. ._.

If you post in a forum, expect people to respond to you with their outlook. Just because its not the outlook you want shouldn't make you defensive.

And if you reply in a forum, you shouldn't be surprised if the person you replied to reacts to your replies, disagrees with them, and decides to argue against them. I have as much right to comment on your thoughts as you have to comment on mine. Yes, even if my comments are negative.

Anyway, since what I said was apparently so nonsensical that I must have been "arguing just to argue", I'll try to explain my rationale a bit:

Just as you never said I wasn't allowed to write about what I want, I never said I was trying to create a story to bring in an audience. Possible public reception was never once mentioned in my OP; you were the first one in this thread to even use the word "audience".
So since you brought in this idea * literally* out of nowhere and all by yourself, I thought it must mean that you don't fully understand why I'm proposing this story idea. I.E., you think maybe I didn't mention audience reception because I didn't realize it might be an issue, without knowing that (a) I don't care, and/or (b) it's very normal for an artist/writer to not care. =/ So I explained it.

But if you ARE aware of both a and b, then that leaves me with the less charitable interpretations...Like, do you go around evaluating future audience metrics to everyone who proposes a new subject to write about?? Because that's weird and unnecessary.

Do you think anyone who proposes an unorthodox idea needs to be warned that audiences may not like it? Because that's also weird and unnecessary, and it makes it look like you're trying to discourage originality. Or, you don't think the OP is mature enough to be aware of that...even though it's pretty obvious that most of us are. This forum is 75% promotional threads, do you really think the average user here does not understand the idea that the general public has its own tastes that might differ from theirs...? Unless the OP specifically asks if their idea will be popular, you really don't need to tell people that.

And finally, there's the least charitable interpretation: that, because this idea just happens not to align with your idea of a story that's worth reading, you felt the need to warn me away from it (as if your personal tastes represent everyone's). Which would be dismissive, disrespectful, and just plain offensive, and you should fully expect someone to take issue with that.
Do you know what I do when someone on this forum makes a topic about a story idea I don't like or that I don't find relatable? I stay out of it. I don't write a reply telling them that "there's a reason people don't write that story" and hoping that reassuring them that they're allowed to write it anyway (???) makes up for that.

The idea that someone is allowed to write a story you might not like (or that LOTS of people might not like, even) should be the default. You don't need to tell people that, it just sounds passive-aggressive.
"Oh, that outfit is so ugly; there's a reason people don't dress like that...but go ahead and wear it though, just go into it with your eyes open and know what to expect " <--- That's what that sounds like.
When it would be much kinder to just...acknowledge that people can wear (or write!) what they want, and realize that means your "warnings" are not needed.

I'm trying to be charitable and assume you never thought about it this way; I know there are people that tend to just express their opinions however/whenever and assume that if they meant something in a helpful/neutral way, then that's how everyone should perceive it. But that isn't realistic or true, and when your comments offend people, there's usually a reason for it.

[ShidoDraws]

That story sounds like it would be an interesting read.

Personally I don't like reading a story that is depressing all the way through, depending on how you write it I might like. Back when I was still in high school, I read a lot of really depressing stories, especially ones that ended really sad but they almost always end in a way that never felt right for me. Some try too hard to make the reader happy when clearly they never resolved the issue and others don't even try to make a happy ending and just straight up kill anything good in the main character's path.

Though this is just my opinion, so I might look forward to your story if you do ever write it.

[NickRowler]

A lot of these "lonely/outcast finds friends" tend to just be fantasy. They are superficial the same way romance can be superficial. But I think people just like the escapism of them. I think of something like Naruto or My Little Pony where the friendship ends up giving them superpowers and such.

Because...there's actually no guarantee that this will happen when you're at that 'magical age' in high school or college. ^^ I mean, what happens when you're still lonely and friendless at age 25? Age 35?? Age 65?? How do you cope while you "wait"? How long can a person go on "waiting" before they become bitter and clinically depressed, or worse...? What if you spend your whole life waiting for nothing...??

I do agree that media needs to be more open about how mental health can effect groups of people differently. How you help a lonely able bodied 12 year old girl is going to be very different than how you help a 50 year old man who is a disabled veteran. What happens when there are cultural barriers, language barriers, low income, or they live somewhere that has no community resources?

I think with a lot of these stories, I don't think we need to see the "makes 200 friends" approach. I think normalizing someone just making one friend. People socializing with their family. That someone can be lonely but still have acquaintances who are kind to them (instead of lonely people being hated by everyone). Maybe someone's best friend is their pet. Etc.

[BoomerZ]

And if you reply in a forum, you shouldn't be surprised if people react to your replies, disagree with them, and decide to argue against them. I have as much right to comment on your thoughts as you have to comment on mine. Yes, even if my comments are negative.

It's different from replying and the passive/aggressive attacks you put forth. You are putting the lowest based reasons for me to comment. You put out an idea. I responded. You then attack saying I don't "get it" and want to censor ideas. Then I explain I'm not and then you comment giving me motives that were not there in the first place. I think you just want to talk, so I'm going to bow out and let you go.

[DokiDokiTsuna]

Then I explain I'm not and then you comment giving me motives that were not there in the first place.

...So, I painstakingly write out 6 or 7 different ways I could have perceived your behavior, carefully explain why I might have thought each one may or may not have applied and what I didn't like about it, and ^that's your takeaway. T_T

If you're determined to think that I'm "attacking" you every time I dislike the things you say, and refuse to read or understand my explanations for my beliefs...then maybe it's best that you just stop replying to my threads?? Like, this keeps happening, and I don't know why you feel the need to keep hopping in to give me these "helpful" hints and suggestions when you seem diametrically opposed to the way I think.

There are lots of developing artists and writers around here who might actually appreciate and absorb your way of thinking. Meanwhile, I'm already a mature creator, I have dozens of works under my belt and you're not going to change me by continuing to do this. You're just going to invite more arguments.

[LostKelp]

I'm seeing a lot of "this sounds interesting, but I don't like depressing stories" and like, there's nothing inherently depressing about being alone. Going on a walk through nature, seeing all that beauty at your own pace on your own terms? Listening to music while dancing and singing terribly because no-ones around to see your cringe? Making sloppy sketches of your favorite obscure characters or writing weird headcanons that no-one will ever read? Eating good food and watching your favorite shows?

There is something to be said about it being sad that you're missing out on human connection, dancing and singing with your friends is more fun than dancing alone. But there is still joy there, you can still find beauty and joy while alone. And if you aren't in a position to create and uphold your connections it's good to see that.

[bulgariansumo]

It's been a minute since the last incident, so forgive me if I repeat myself.

I feel like I can see a story like this being made. Like a story about someone finding a hobby that brings them joy, not necessarily meeting people through it (or if they do, it's in passing) and the act of pursuing that hobby brings the main character joy in itself.

It reminds me of something I heard about one guy on Reddit who iirc got out of being an incel once he took up raising shrimp. Of course, the MC doesn't have to start off that extreme.

The only story I can think of that's kind of close to "Main character being on their own and staying that way" is one I found on Wattpad years ago (Adventures of the Travelling Fisherman by CaptinKera), but that does focus on relationships the MC has with other people, even if they're short and fleeting. Also the MC isn't really a social outcast, he's pretty socially adept but just chooses to travel alone.

Relationships can heal, but learning how to thrive while alone can heal in its own way.

[vapidink]

Personally, I like stories centered on characters making their peace with a particular aspect of themselves. It's interesting to see them come to the realization of who they are and accept themselves, and that's a totally valid form of character development. Especially when you show everyone around them pressuring them to conform. And that's really at the core for me, the idea that people need to conform vs the acceptance of oneself after gaining a better understanding.

For what it's worth, depressing stories totally sell. It's why we have an entire genre dedicated to drama. I wrote a story on Wattpad about depression, loss, and moving on and it's a Paid Story with a decent readership and plenty of really lovely comments from readers. I didn't really expect it to do so well when I wrote it, because I knew it wasn't what most people on the site are looking for, but I enjoyed writing it and putting forth my take on the topic as it came from a personal point of view. If you're really interested in writing it, you definitely should. There's an audience out there for pretty much anything online.

[Lensing]

Good idea, people can relate to a character like that and I´m pretty sure that a lot of
people would be interested in reading a story like that

[NellieVP318]

To be fair, I don't mind stories with social outcasts finding friends as much. Then again I always the type that liked friendship stories because it helped me in some ways when I was younger.

I do believe we could use more stories on learning how to deal with loneliness without needing or waiting for another person. Let's be real, it's harder to make friends the older you get and people in life do leave or come back at times. It help younger people to learn how to be alone without waiting for others to validate them time to time.

Like @VibrantFox said, that's a problem when living in a extrovert-driven society. I think there is a market for stories and you can learn some life lessons from that. Then again, that's my opinion.

[TheLemmaLlama]

To me the "lonely protagonist being 'rescued' by a magical BFF" plot seems like the introvert's fantasy; not the fantasy of condescending extroverts trying to make everyone "normal" or w/e. Many people in your previous thread saying "humans are social animals; a character who doesn't desire interpersonal connections is not realistically human" were introverts themselves.

The "being adopted by an extrovert" meme is also mostly being cycled by introverts; they're the ones jokingly "infantilizing" themselves, not neurotypical extroverts infantilizing them by making fun of how helpless they are. It's basically the platonic version of the "manic pixie dream girl" trope.

If we're talking about a trope that actually seems to be about extroverts "fixing" introverts, it's the "comedic duo" of the quiet, serious one and the loud, silly one, where the latter continuously annoys and harasses the former and the former is treated as "a meanie stick in the mud who takes things too seriously" when they rightfully get annoyed at the latter ... until the quiet, serious one undergoes "character development" and learns to "loosen up" (i.e. accepting the loud, silly one's actions bc they're a nice person who just wants to help you break out of your shell).

But I do like your approach to subverting the "lonely protagonist being 'rescued' by a magical BFF" trope. I myself was lonely and wanted someone to "adopt" me as their friend when I was younger, but a Watamote-style message of "you gotta take initiative and be the one to make the effort to improve yourself and make friends" would have seemed very "prescriptive"; like we're still operating under the assumption that friendship is a need and this it's my "job" to put in effort to acquire that friendship, with no thought given to my cost-benefit analysis on tradeoffs and whether my desire for friendship is actually worth the risk and resources it costs me.

It's valid to want friendship but also choose to not spend the costs to pursue it if it's too much of a tradeoff. It is an option. As long as you're not blaming other people for the costs being too high, it doesn't make you a friendship-incel.

I'm seeing a lot of "this sounds interesting, but I don't like depressing stories" and like, there's nothing inherently depressing about being alone.

If I had to guess, it's probably because the title mention social outcasts (which implies a character is not alone by choice, but because they're being actively rejected by the people around them) and loneliness (which as @Nugtown mentioned is different from solitude). The OP itself does explain in more detail, but titles tend to stick in people's heads XD

[DokiDokiTsuna]

Many people in your previous thread saying "humans are social animals; a character who doesn't desire interpersonal connections is not realistically human" were introverts themselves.

...I realized that; that's actually what made it so upsetting. ^^; If it were just people who couldn't understand the experience blowing it off as unrealistic, I would have been annoyed, but I wouldn't have been surprised. Instead, it was people who FULLY understood what it meant to live like that dehumanizing themselves and me by extension. It just blew my mind, it was like talking to a black KKK member, y'know?? Like, "do you REALLY think this way of thinking benefits you in any way???"

So yeah, that's why most of my post focuses on talking to the "introvert" in that situation, addressing that sort of wishful thinking. The point is that we're taught to think being "adopted" is the only way out (apparently to the point of thinking that, in the meantime, we must simply exist as failed human beings...) when it really doesn't have to be that way.

If I had to guess, it's probably because the title mention social outcasts (which implies a character is not alone by choice, but because they're being actively rejected by the people around them) and loneliness (which as @Nugtown mentioned is different from solitude). The OP itself does explain in more detail, but titles tend to stick in people's heads XD

Eeeeeeeeehhhhhh...I'm probably further confusing the issue, but I kinda have to clarify that it's actually both?
I mean, I don't mind being alone, but at the same time it's not by choice. ¯_(ツ)_/¯ I actually really like people, and (in case it's not obvious by the length of 90% of my posts) I love to talk, and if I met someone I actually wanted to talk to on a regular basis we'd probably be instant besties. The fact is that it just hasn't happened, and I'm sure many people out there are in the same boat.

EDIT: Now that I think about it, that's why I chose to say 'social outcasts' instead of introverts...because extraverts who are bullied/ostracized out of the chance to make friends, or have different issues with social development, also go through the same things. We're not the only ones tempted to think one magical friendship will fix our lives...

[AmysGames]

Reading through this topic making me realize that whenever I write this sort of dynamic, the introvert character is that way by choice? Like they have little to no friends, and maybe they'll feel occasional pangs of loneliness, but they have no particular desire to make new friends. And the extrovert who comes into their lives is mostly just annoying to them—even if they do tend to become some form of friends by the end of the story, usually through some mutual compromise. Not sure what that says about me, lol.

Anyway, yeah, agree with the general consensus of "you don't need someone else to validate you" being a worthwhile message that could stand to be shared in fiction more often.

[cherrystark]

After reading some of the other comments, while I agree that some writers do actively write stories about overcoming loneliness and finding connection - it seems really more of a plot device/trope than the writer trying to be deep.

In the heroic journey, the MC has to have some defining moment that pushes them onto their journey. There also has to be something that prevents them from going back to their previous life. For example, Luke Skywalker HAD to lose his aunt and uncle to set him on his Jedi journey. They couldn't just be lounging around at home for him to come back to.

But unfortunately, the plot device has warped into the trope of "MC is always lonely, orphaned, abused" as an instant way to garner sympathy. The Dursleys HAD to be horrible to Harry to give him proper grounds for abandoning the human world in favor of his new world. Ron is the convenient instant bestie who shows up to help teach him about the new world. Hermione is the token girl bestie that has to be in the dynamic. The MC's loneliness officially goes away when they either find out that they're biologically related to another character or they pair off with one half of a sibling set, making the group all related.

It happens in a ton of genres. Werewolf romances - the MC is always abused/orphaned so she can leave her terrible life goodbye in favor of the better life with her lover. Shifter romances - the MC is now an adult, but she's an only child, parents sick or dead. Her bestie betrays her so the MC has no ties to her previous life. Even Twilight did this, Alice's singular role is to be Bella's vampire best friend. Bella happily isolates herself from her old life to dedicate to her new life.

MC needs to meet a mysterious group of people who change their lives - someone's the awkward new kid. If their partner is the new kid, the MC has little to no friends to stop them from getting involved in the plot shenanigans.

Even Disney is guilty of isolating their protagonists. The vast majority of their princesses are socially isolated. It's a large part of Elsa and even Belle's personal story arcs. I don't think it's necessarily "wrong" to include loneliness and isolation in your stories, but I think you should look past it as a quick character "flaw" to give your MC. One of my favorite versions of Beauty and the Beast, she has a loving and supportive family/community to go home to. She still struggled with self-doubt and a desire to fit in, but her choice became 10x more impactful because people missed her when she left. No one "saved" her from her loneliness but she grew out of those feelings as she developed as a character.

[TheLemmaLlama]

Oh whoops, I kind of painted a false dichotomy there between 'alone by choice' and 'alone bc rejected by others'; when I said 'alone by choice', what I really meant was 'alone through no fault of others' - so it could definitely be not by choice, but rather just not finding anyone to click with Whereas 'social outcast' to me implies being actively rejected/ostracized/'cast out' by the people around you, which to me is always depressing even if you're fine being alone (whereas simply not having friends bc no-one happens to click with you is not depressing if you're fine with being alone)

And yeah, I was basically using the terms introvert/extrovert in that way bc that's how everyone else in this thread was using it, and felt a bit weird doing it, but I wasn't sure if I wanted to get into the whole 'introversion/extroversion' =/= 'has social difficulties/does not have social difficulties' thing XD

...I realized that; that's actually what made it so upsetting. ^^; If it were just people who couldn't understand the experience blowing it off as unrealistic, I would have been annoyed, but I wouldn't have been surprised. Instead, it was people who FULLY understood what it meant to live like that dehumanizing themselves and me by extension. It just blew my mind, it was like talking to a black KKK member, y'know?? Like, "do you REALLY think this way of thinking benefits you in any way???"

Ah right, that makes sense! So I think the crux of the issue is, experiences vary within a demographic and a lot of people in your demographic actually don't 'fully understand what it's like' -- for instance, you've actually had experience being 'adopted by an extrovert' so you know the realities of how toxic those relationships end up being, but for the people who haven't ... yeah, it's kind of pretty natural to think this way of thinking benefits us

I'm also AFAB and was anti-feminist for quite a while, because I just hadn't had the experiences a lot of women have had so I honestly didn't see what the deal was; being (perceived as) a girl in modern times really didn't seem too bad and I hated the attention which I felt feminist discourse was drawing to my (perceived) gender. So I might get a bit passionate about making people understand the mindset of 'traitor minorities', for lack of a better term Because sometimes it feels like people just assume we've had the same oppressive experiences and embrace them anyway bc we're dumb or brainwashed or smth