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Jun 2018

EDIT: Here's where I'll keep Links to the other forum posts I've made on the subject of Story
Tips on Fundamental Story Structure
How to Structure a Setting and Cure Cliches1


Hello there!

I'd like to discuss what makes a Story. We may feel as aspiring Storytellers that we have an intuitive understanding of 'what a story is about', but do we? Do we really?

Our goal as Storytellers is to weave a tale as clearly as possible. Would it not follow that we should be able to define what a Story is about? Knowing our field will make us better content creators here on Tapas.

Recently, I finished studying Story by Robert McKee, which I believe any aspiring Comic Writer ought to give a read. It lays out the soul of Storytelling and Structure that uniquely benefits stories told in a primarily visual manner. Even if you're a novelist, this book lays bare the fundamental principles of Stories.

All of the following is information from Story by Robert McKee; I just don't remember which parts are direct quotes because it's all from my notes.
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A Story is...

  • about Principles, not Rules.

    ++ Rules say, "ya gotta do it this way". They're rigid.
    ++ Principles say, "Hey, this works--and has throughout remembered time".
    ++ You don't need to try to emulate previously great stories but learn the principles underlying these stories that made them great.

  • is about Archetypes, not Stereotypes

    ++ Because we seek stories to find and understand Life, Archetypal stories unearth universal Human Experiences within a unique setting and unique characters. In an unfamiliar world, the story helps us find ourselves.
    ++ Stereotypical stories are unspecific generalities about human experience wrapped in a specific-setting.

  • is about thoroughness, not shortcuts

    ++ Comics have the same density as novels. And it takes just as long to make a Comic script (not counting the obscene number of hours to draw the dang thing.) as it takes to write a novel.
    ++ But because it's in pictures we assume it takes less time or effort to craft the story.
    ++ Good comics strive to express the maximum with the least words. Remember, Brevity takes time and Excellence is only found through Preserverence.
    ++ It's hard to be thorough and nobody said our job is easy, but if you want to be rewarded with a story that will endure, you have to develop the skills to create such a story.

  • is about realities, not the mysteries of Writing.

    ++ Creating a story can be full of wonder, but it's not riddled with unsolvable Mysteries. Since Aristotle published Poetics we've had the "secrets" of stories.
    ++ No, Storytelling for the Screen, or in our case Comics, is difficult because we have nowhere to hide. A Novel has the luxury to coat exposition in words that flow along an inner monologue seamlessly without disrupting a story. The best comics must express story through purity of drama because it becomes less real, less true, when we try to tell the story through dialogue.

  • is about Mastering the Art, not Second Guessing the Marketplace

    ++ Nothing in our field is guaranteed. Let me repeat that. Nothing in the field of Storytelling is guaranteed. No one knows what will make a wildly popular and enduring Story. But I can tell you this:
    ++ You find success when you write with surpassing quality and not until. It's no use agonizing over the odds of a successful comic or fretting the details of how to get more subscribers, those things are out of our hands and that energy is better spent achieving excellence in the craft.
    ++ The Reader knows a good story when they see it. Trust that and focus on learning to tell your story.

  • is about Respect, not Disdain for the Reader

    ++ There are two reasons why talented people write badly:
    ++ 1/ When they're blinded by an idea they want to prove and
    ++ 2/ when they're driven to express a certain emotion.
    ++ A Talented writer writes well when they're moved by a desire to touch the Reader.
    ++ Make no mistake, the Reader is smarter than us. Don't you often see things coming in stories, catch plot holes, gain insight into the characters and their true natures, and connect all the dots? Our privilege as storytellers is that the Reader opens up to our stories and no story can work without an understanding of the reactions and anticipations of its Reader. (More on this in future posts)

  • is about Originality, not Duplication

    ++ Originality is the confluence of Content [our distinctive choice of subject] and Form [our unique telling]. The two mutually inspire one another. Thus an original story is not only what you have to say, but how you say it.
    ++ Eccentricity and being different for difference sake is not Originality. It's just as bad as following the rules of every trope in a given genre.
    ++ Mature artists don't call attention to themselves by 'showing what they can do with the story' and the wise artist doesn't break convention just to break convention. They find Originality in choosing a meaningful subject to them and shaping the telling of the story to the subject, then allowing the form of the story to influence and refine the subject as well. This back and forth of Content and Form is what makes for an Original Story.

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As I hope you can tell, I am intense about the Art of Storytelling and I'm hoping to add to each one of these points above in future forum posts, but this is a good starting place.

What do you think Stories are fundamentally about? Is there something you'd want to add to this list?

Do you agree with the above definitions? If not, why?

I'm eager to see what fellow creators think.
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Robert McKee's book had over 400 pages of content teaching about the Substance and Structure of stories and I've got handwritten notes on all of it. So there is a LOT more to talk about when it comes to Stories and I hope to be able to share this with everyone on Tapas.

I believe we can all be good storytellers if we're willing to put in the time to study our craft. I hope you will join me on this journey :wink: .

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The part about 'being different for difference's sake' really stood out to me. I guess it's not a good meta to go by for setting up every character or event, but I don't think it's a bad thing for idea generation. Although clearly I'm biased, because that's how I come up with the vast majority of my ideas. ^^

I'm like, "POC don't get any protagonist roles in the fantasy genre? Let's do it!" "Sweet and sensitive male characters don't get any protagonist roles? Let's do it!" "Good aliens in magical girl narratives are always conveniently human-like and beautiful? Let's do the opposite!" "The protagonists in magical girl narratives are always holy and sweet and perfect? Let's DEFINITELY do the opposite!"

I buck the trends; I do what people aren't doing, and that's how I come up with my most interesting stories. If you develop the characters with care, no one has to know that it started out as a "let's do it" idea. It'll just be what it is. :slight_smile:

I don't think those examples are necessarily "different for difference's sake". That sounds a lot more like recognizing areas in story telling where there are gaps or things are lacking. I think different to be different tends to be more, trying and failing to be edgy, and doing things that lack actual narrative purpose or value. Giving a character unusual physical traits for the world they live in for no discernible purpose can be like this.

This isn't so much about concept/idea generation, it's about storytelling -- but I think there's a difference between "I want a story that I don't see anyone else telling so I'm going to tell it," which can be good, versus "this is what I see other people doing so I'm gonna do the opposite," which can be contrived.

Doing what's popular instead of telling your story is not all that different from doing the opposite of what's popular instead of telling your story.

(and definitely seconding Story as an amazing book!!)

One site I've found that does a really good job of defining what the difference is between a "story" and a bunch of events told in sequence is Dan Harmon's 101 tutorials over here.7 It's told simply and in some places a bit flippantly, but I think it's really insightful as to the thing that makes our brains recognise something as a story and resonate with it.

I honestly don´t troughfullly agree "It´s about the Art, not second guessing the marketplace"
While I agree that it is very important to improve your Art and Storytelling constantly; if you want to have any chance of making it; you have to watch the market, trends etc very carefully.
I think it often looks like insanely popular creators just pop out of nowhere, with amazing art and storytelling, gaining a huge following overnight.
All of the big creators I had the pleasure talking too, described that a big part of their work is marketing and responding to trends. You are, afterall, as an "webcomic - host" both artist, writer AND agent, advertiser etc.
Of course nothing is guranteed. But if you connect with creators, study popular series and watch the workings of the marketplace, you have a much better chance...

(also, I wouldn´t say readers know a good story when they see it - rather; they know a story they will enjoy. And that is were taste differentiates, and different demographics enjoy different stories - the only thing preeetty positive is a solid artstlye)

That said, i really liked reading trough your summary! Always good to expand your knowledge, and I think storytelling is a very interesting subject, especially in comics...)

l'art pour l'art (Art for art's sake1)
Mastering the art and care nothing about real life nor money.

l'art pour la vie ( (Art for life's sake1) (WSJ article, use "bypass paywall" add-on if you're being blocked))
Martering the art and understanding why would anyone care to enjoy your creation and give you money.

Making money isn't a bad thing. You need to understand both to be a professional artist/writter.

No I agree, for Idea generation finding something to write about that's different than what others are doing is great! We always need creators who are filling in areas that no one is And as long as it develops into something that uniquely yours, you're absolutely right, no one has to know it started off as a let's do it idea. :smile:

The point I was making was like for final stories you know?

For example: having a POC as a protagonist for a fantasy genre.

It's perfectly fine if that develops into a unique character who is their own person and the story is crafted around their journey. As a POC, I would love to have more of these.

What's not fine is defining that character by just being a POC (As if being a POC comes with certain behavioral traits?) and having the story be built around that. If that makes sense. ^^;

Yes! Precisely~ (And oh gosh you read it too! <3)

That is a really neat link. I browsed it a bit and got it bookmarked now ^^ When I have some free time I'll be taking notes. Thanks so much for sharing this!

@Merle ; I agree with you to an extent. There is this illusion that popular creators show up overnight but really there's a lot of work that goes into creating and indeed marketing the story before that happens.

However, I'd like to clarify where I think I disagree. My question is do you make the story and then market it or do you make the story just to follow a trend that's going on and try to market that?
Because the latter tend to be stories that, yes for a while they can be popular, but then they fizzle out of social memory when the trend ends.

I believe in the short term there can be a benefit to taking advantage of the trends that are happening, but that's not my personal goal in this case. In the interest of creating a story that will endure past marketing and trends, I would like to argue that it is indeed about the craft and art of story more than worrying about an ever-shifting marketplace.

Human beings have been making stories from the very beginning of our organized societies. We instinctively resonate with those stories that touch on our essential human nature. That's why I believe a truly meaningful story won't be affected by trends, but rather be a trendsetter---if it's Marketed well :wink:

After all, the goal of marketing is getting a story out there where people can see it right? (I'm actually not entirely sure so please feel free to clarify it for me.)

(In a short-term view, yes I agree with you that Readers know a story they will enjoy. Demographics and taste is a thing. But in the long-term there are always those stories that span multiple demographics and endure through time. Those are the stories where I would say the Reader can tell it's a good story, generally.

And aw thank you! Yes, Comics is such a baby field compared to like Filmmaking and Literature, but I just want to show it can be just as robust in its storytelling~)

@Draconic ; Yes, I agree making money is not a bad thing. I'm a professional artist, it's how I make money. The point I was making is that you make money only after you create something worth buying, and the only way to do that is to learn to excel at your given craft.

Therefore the primary drive, in my opinion, for a comic artist is to write the best possible story they can for the love of it. The money will come if the artist remains persistent and continues to work in a manner that allows money to reach them because they put their story out there.

So in this manner, I believe you can make art for both its own sake and for life's sake.