9297 / 13903
May 2020

You assume that a society will naturally bootstrap itself into the industrial era provided there is no conspiracy in place to keep it in medieval stasis. This is a very modern way of thinking, and it is everywhere. It is why people on the Internet ask why Middle-Earth did not invent firearms to better combat the orcs and why fantasy authors like GRRM have to justify their settings by saying "The maesters do not like technological progress," and similar handwaves.

In reality, the Idea of Progress (the notion that technologies and societies inevitably grow more sophisticated) is a new thing and utterly alien to how human beings have seen the world for much of their existence.

Jodo asks, why did Gutenberg invent the printing press? Why did someone else not invent it before him?

Gutenberg didn't invent the printing press.

Multiple individuals, across multiple societies, had already started developing various types of printing presses. That's the way of emerging technologies... They develop across culture in multiple ways. Progress unimpeded is funny that way.

So why did Gutenberg get the "credit"/PR? Shockingly, he printed a bible and The Church became his hype man. There's that silly Church again.

Your definition of progress is too limiting. You want to tie it down to an ideology/technology that you can specifically rail against. Progress is not a new thing, it's an ongoing process. And human beings as a whole have been subjected to the whims of those who sought to stop/slow/contain it...so it didn't usurp their individual "power". The shift you're weirdly trying to as a "new" thing...occurred almost 300 years ago. It's technologies providing societal changes that are no longer easily defined by any singular control.

I live in a country that owes much of it's foundation to the progressive philosophies of an englishman named John Locke. He had a radical thought...no man was born superior through divine right, that instead all men are born equal.

That was the kind of progress that took seed.

You are still thinking of progress as something that must be impeded in order to fail. But for most of history it was barely noticeable. It was not until the Enlightenment (and well into the Modern Era) that things were moving quickly enough that people could begin to grasp what was happening and therefore conceive of the Idea of Progress.

Think of the assumptions that come with this Idea. You must accept that we do not live in the best of all possible worlds. You must accept that humans can not only develop a sufficient understanding of nature, but also improve upon nature. These are very modern concepts and would not have occurred to most people for the vast majority of human existence.

Renaissanance artwork - indeed the rebirth of classic prechristian art and technics after centuries of strict (roman catholic/western) christian dogmatics. Incentive were refugee artisans and crafters from Eastrome/Byzanz/Istanbul when the turks took over. And of course the turks themselves where inspired by what they found there. They harbour the jewish population and the head of the orthodox/eastroman churches to this very day.
Oops, did I forget about the economy? Renaissance art was fueled with gold from the emerging capitalist families between Italy and the netherlands. Banking and stuff. So arts could gradually break away from its old breadgivers.

One more week and school is done. I have special trainings to do from home, 68 children to chase down for grades, and paperwork to turn in.

Soon though... soon...

Progress doesnt happen at the same rates in every place.

That is why such things as America`s colonization have happened. Because the technology gap between European countries and America was just too huge for most indigenous civilizations to continue their lifestyle or even stand a chance of fighting back.

A sad truth. Any organization with any degree of authority can be exploited by people who seek power if we are not careful enough.

I am furious.

I am seriously furious.
I'm shaking.
Fuck.

:weary: I’m sorry! I totally understand your fury in this situation. It seems really petty to respond with the way she did when doki stated the entire reason of the post was that the hotlines didn’t feel helpful for some people and that was the point of reaching out. Feels like the entire idea fell on deft ears!

Ah yes -- I can definitely see this spiraling out of control and leaving a big mess for the mods.

High emotions, more threads, people talking over each other:

Business as usual in the forums

The generic answer was weird. Not unexpected, but it doesn't happen often here so it feels off...

@Azifri @tired_programmer

Just saw the thread.....while the topic leant towards asking about how to find inner strenght when you dont have people you can lean on, the way it was worded (specially the title) was waaaaaay more provocative than intended.

Havent read the whole thread (its kinda long), so i am not sure if the discussion escalated into any hostility.

On one side, i understand ratique`s concerns of the risk of things escalating out of control, the advice on seeking profesional help, while it could be considered generic, is better than relying of unqualified strangers on the internet.

A sad truth is that not everyone knows how to help a person who suffers depression, specially if they dont know said person well.

Maybe the paradox here was that damage control was neccesary to be done quickly (some threads escalate way too fast), so a single mod cant read the whole topic before reaching such decision. Maybe the decision was rushed, maybe it was a good call. I should read the whole topic to properly judge that.

Maybe a better explanation on why the thread is getting closed could have saved some trouble. Now is up to Op and Ratique to talk things out.

I think it does not happen as much as before because people know what will happen and they keep quiet.
It's so sad I don't even want to fight anymore...
And everything is so incredibly selfish... i still don't get how only the creator of the post is considered a victim when a post is closed.. that's not how discussion works,
If a group of people are in a room discussing and suddently someone shove everyone outside and slam the door at my nose, I don't think people would not see me as a victim because I was not the one starting the discussion.
But on a forum, all the sudden, it's ok. It's normal.
I don't get it . I've been moderating since the mid 90' and I've seen that horrible mindset emerge and take over... Terribly sad...

Well, at least, here they don't ban you for questioning mod's actions. At the most of old forums, you got banned immediately for it.

Depends on forums I suppose. I never moderated a forum with such a policy, or even used one as a member (at least not for long.. probably it happened a few times and it made me leave the forum. I don't remember a specific case though).

The forums I moderated years ago were the wild west xD I miss that. Here you have to be so careful with your words to not offend anyone, and things are taken out of context so often that I find it too tiresome to start a discussion. But cool people and helpful threads keep me here ^^

And agree, that mindset is getting more common. Probably the reason why discord and apps like that are so popular.

Very good observation about the 'taking things out of context'. The best way I can express it, is that I feel forum etiquette dropped bluntness for manipulation.
Not a good change ...

You gotta use the tools they let you keep in your toolbox...it ain't ideal.