There is nothing wrong with wanting numbers

[Jenny-Toons]

No, it's not bad.

But, at the same time, wanting it doesn't mean it's gonna happen. Let's face it -- not every story is gonna pull in the big numbers. They just won't. Maybe it comes with bad marketing. Maybe it comes with the story just not being interesting enough. Who knows.

Hence, there's gotta be more than numbers to keep you going with a story.

Comics are hard work. You see people on these forums come on, looking to be the next "big-hit mangaka" with a idea that's a dime a dozen. You got people on here who've been doing it for 10 years and more, and they've just started to gain a bigger fanbase. If you're in this for a long haul, wanting numbers can really only get your motivation so far.

Cuz if someone's just doing this for numbers? They're fucked.

So that's my take on it.

[Verrell_Rain]

But just because it may not happen doesn't mean people shouldn't try. Writing for just having viewers is very corporate logic BUT it is a want of anyone telling a story. Just because you may fail doesn't mean you shouldn't try to get readers because that's the essence of storytelling; an audience to tell the story to. I'm positive people who have been at it for a while, clawed and scratched for every reader they have. It isn't wrong for newer artists to do that. Obviously creating the comic is the priority because you need a story to tell a story but it's also nice to have people listen to that story instead speaking into the abyss. If the author has some control over that, why wouldn't they try to change it?

[ivanskilling]

I read this advice somewhere before and I think it summarizes it the best: Writing is half the job, the other half is promotion.

So while enjoying our craft of writing or drawing, there's nothing wrong with wanting our work to get more exposure. Numbers/readers/engagement/whatever gives you that motivation - that's important! To gain that, promoting and engaging is the way to go. And no one should tell you otherwise.

When people say that "numbers aren't important" or "don't aim for numbers", the message kind of comes off as condescending especially if they already are pulling those big ass numbers. What the message really should be is to not get caught up in the numbers game or get overly obsessed to the point that creating no longer gives you the joy that it should. We should feel joy in creating AND when more people are engaging with our work.

[Jenny-Toons]

I didn't say you can't try. No where in my posts did I say that.

I'm saying that, if you're trying to last a long time? You need more than just "subs" as a motivation. That's basically it.

I'm coming from the perspective of someone who sees piles and piles of posts where people either worry about not getting subs, think their stories are shit because no one is reading, or think this is easy. Again, nothing wrong with wanting subs. That's good. But actively liking the story you're telling kinda helps sell it better.

People tend to like things when they see the creators liking it too.

[Verrell_Rain]

And I agree. I just think that the wanting for subs makes sense. Also, your profile picture is excellent.

[Verrell_Rain]

Exactly!!! Thank you for explaining that more clearly than I did.

[ivanskilling]

Haha I think I've ranted about this in private to other creators before when I saw similar conversations about "popularity isn't important" on another site. So I've honed this argument for a long time lol! I wanted to make a journal about it on that site but ended up not doing it because I didn't have the energy to deal with any potential backlash or long arguments.

[foxnflames]

We should feel joy in creating AND when more people are engaging with our work.

This saved me writing a longer point to arrive at this. And what @Jenny-Toons is saying.

Also, a lot of us are coming here virtually unknown. We have to grind to get our audience and those readers, who are giving us numbers, won't come overnight. I'll agree that marketing is important and random link dumps get you nowhere. And yes to believing in your story! Writing to get views, likes, subs and catering to what you think a lot of people will read will probably burn you out faster than writing with heart.

I'd personally rather have a creator take the time to value their readers, respond to comments (I know we can't get to them all), and truly engage, but making your reader feel valuable will help you out more in the long run.

[lunagraves714]

A couple quotes I think about a lot that kinda relate:

"I can't imagine writing if I didn't have a reader. Any more than an actor can imagine acting without an audience." - Joan Didion

"An actor without an audience is rehearsing." - Sarah Wayne Callies

[Aykay]

Yesterday I thought I lost one of my readers who likes every episode and occasional comments. Turns out they changed their username.

I was so relieved.

[elisabeth_ist]

And we're not really writing for "subs," are we? We're writing for those people who will really engage with and enjoy our work. It's a matter of finding those people and figuring out how to reach them. It's a journey, but it's a worthy one.

[IsobelLynx]

I agree with the sentiment but there's another aspect to this I realized.

I don't want my readers to just come, read, and leave. I want them to talk to me. That's what I get my satisfaction from. When you're new and you've got no reads, those few matter a lot, but once you gain a good number of them, it starts to feel hollow.

Reads alone don't make me happy. Not enough.

This is why I'm getting really excited just at the thought of putting my novel down for a while and get back to writing fanfiction. Fanfic readers are very vocal. It's very encouraging and that's what makes me happy.

I think it will be healthy to phase between working on original and fanfic works.
If only I could write both at the same time...

[foxnflames]

I lost a sub and scoured my list trying to figure out who it was. Luckily I didn't notice anyone who I know readers my story missing so I tried to not obsess over it. But the next day I got three subs, one of which is someone who I always see liking my chapters so I guess I finally hooked them lol.

[kitschensyngk]

A little feedback now and then is a good thing. You don't want to feel like you're throwing your work out into the void.

That said, if you're creating art just to get attention, you're doing it for the wrong reason.

[Aykay]

I'd rather not lose subs. But if I get to keep all my active readers then it's fine. Everyone who actively reads, comments and likes means a lot to me because I've spent years never really having people interact with my work.

I definitely appreciate it.

[Prisim]

There's definitely nothing wrong with wanting readers. I don't know that anyone would post their work online if they didn't hope for at least one person to read it. I think where the problem lies is the people that give up just because they're not getting reads or the people who will change their writing just to make sure they write something that's popular. I've seen far too many talented people get caught up in the numbers game because in a lot of ways the numbers can be just about luck and aren't always about skill. I've also seen people decide they want to write something they absolutely hate just because they think it'll sell better than their passion project.

Write/draw for yourself, but share in hopes of getting reads, but in the end still do it because you enjoy doing it.

[Snickerdoodles]

The problem is how a lot of people go about this business of promotion.

Like, we're all creators here on the forum. People who hang around here just because they like reading books and comics -- the're vanishingly rare. This place is basically a backstage lounge, a place where very busy people like to spend some of their limited free time just relaxing and connecting with like-minded folks. It's not like a convention hall at all.

It might feel like people are doing something when they kick down the door and scream for people to read their comics but it actually accomplishes very little. They'd have better luck doing it on Reddit where there's a constant supply of strangers.

[Kiweevil]

I love the craft and want to focus more on it than the numbers, because sh​tty art and storytelling skills ain't gonna get me anywhere in the numbers game anyway.

Would I like to have big numbers? Oh hell yes, then I could rub it in the faces of those who doubted and verbally abused me. (That was a joke) But at the end of the day, I just want to be proud of my work. I'd rather have a few loyal subs and astounding quality work than have a sea of subs and something I'm ashamed to admit I drew.

I think the more effort I put into improving myself, the better my odds are of people taking interest in it, anyway. I will market myself more eventually, but only after I feel I have something marketable. And right now, I'm not at a skill level I'm happy with.

But to leave off, there's nothing wrong with marketing so long as you're not spamming or harassing people with it.

[Snickerdoodles]

Although personally I'd kinda enjoy it if someone went and rubbed their big numbers in my face.

[Kiweevil]

You're an oddball then lol. I meant rubbing it in the face of people who picked on me in school (or my parents, cough cough) but I'd never actually do that lol. I'm not a showy person haha