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Mar 2020

As one of the "Angrier" voices on here about some of these issues, let me wade in...

I think inherently the worst take on the value of visibility and being featured on Tapas is the cracked logic of underselling it to those who haven't received it.

Sure, I understand it's not a direct pathway to whatever defines "success" in this industry but the continued narrative of NOT acknowledging it as a mainly positive experience definitely colors my opinion of those who push that storyline. When a poster says it only led to "X" more subscribers, it's usually a number substantially way more than our group's current subscribers. It can't help but raise my ire.

The logic is simple.

If being featured got us ONE more subscriber, it's still ONE more than not being featured.

I, personally, don't have a built in bias to individuals that benefit from a system... but that doesn't disqualify me from attacking a system I, personally, see as flawed. I can understand that for those individuals, it sometimes seems like the attack is focused at them specifically.

But no, I respect the individual's grind and their individual paths.

Yeh I think we're mostly talking about the specific people who discount what Premium artists say simply due to being a Premium artist. You're more than welcome to buck the system while being respectful to those artists as I and a few others have said above.

Though I'll say as someone who's been featured out of the blue, it's a big high but at least the first time it happens if you're not prepared for the drop off (something no one warned me about, which I'm not blaming anyone for because it's not their jobs) then seeing your suddenly dwindling numbers for six months can also have a pretty negative impact on you.

I don't think anyone here is saying visibility doesn't matter at all, just that it's not something that's within your control, at least when it comes to Tapas featuring etc etc. so it's better to focus on the parts that you have in your control. Rather than letting your disappointment set in and develop a hatred for those who made it.

But I do have control over my ability to voice a dissenting opinion to the general practices of a site that maximizes it's ability to push Premium titles visibility while minimizing to the rest of us the role of visibility in "success".

Of course you do. That's completely unrelated to what I was saying which was that people here aren't saying visibility doesn't matter at all. Everyone here is free to voice a dissenting opinion about it. My point is simply that they're not saying visibility doesn't matter.

This has occurred for years, over multiple threads, and it's a general underselling of the experience.

Sure, no one is saying it DOESN'T matter but the majority are not painting it as the positive experience it's likely to be for the majority of us who haven't had it. It's tone deaf to suggest that these gains, of any sort, aren't extremely important to us in the double digit crowd.

I feel like another problem with the community is that it’s not much like... say YouTube, where people shout out one another and it actually feels like a really big community (which has its own set of problems) but collaborations are a thing and it’s community has a much less... let’s say sterile, vibe to it.

I remember when big collaborations with big and small sub counts happened back when it was tapastic, I rarely see that now unless it’s forum based and usually with small amount of people getting involved.

Now this could just have something to do with the fact that the DM system has always been a bit poo so after a few years people just naturally felt better staying in their own corners x3, but I do feel like the community isn’t very..... Uh outgoing? At least not compared to the olden days but this could be rose tinted glasses talking.

Yeah, like I said in my first post, I think it's just a lack of community leaders who are willing or have time to put forth the effort to start something as inclusive as the Winter Fests.

There was a banner exchange from like one or two years ago that was a shout-out sort of thing, but I haven't seen much like that since.

I just made a suggestion in a separate thread that is EXACTLY along those lines​:grin:

Winter fest was my favorite idea from the community, I wish I was brave enough to get involved with it back then but I was still a sad introvert XD

This thread is pretty amazing and it's really great to hear from a variety of people with different experiences.

@SeraphicMayin Wow. WOW. Thank you for writing this novel of insight and even inspiration. Well, I hope people do feel inspired by it since it is just very honest and encouraging to keep trying to improve the story of my comic. Though at this point, my comic's story is basically set in stone so I can't really change it without doing a massive overhaul (but I think the story is pretty good anyway).

@LordVincent I am incredibly sorry to hear you have felt that way. I don't think I ever contributed to it, but if I have, then I am sorry. I found your post also to be inspiring and moving forward I'm going to try and make sure I don't act that way to an artist just because they are popular.

I have also seen this behavior with an artist that I follow. Every time she posts an illustration, it gets TORN apart if there is something a bit off or if it isn't perfect (like I remember seeing a fanart of Mei from Overwatch where she was drawn thicc and had a tiny thigh gap and people LOST THEIR MINDS). Seeing and hearing about these things makes it a bit frightening at possibly becoming a popular artist someday.

Yeah, this is basically how I feel being someone who is sitting at 74 subs and waiting with anticipation for sub #75! And then it's only 25 more until the big 100!

It also doesn't help though when, and someone else talked a bit about this I don't know where the post is lol, Tapas and WT also only like a very specific type of comic so they don't really push comics that fall outside of it. I changed my comic to scroll format just for them, but even with that, the fact that my comic is black and white means it will never be highlighted/promoted in some way. My goal isn't even to be a premium creator since I'm not really interested in the webtoon style anyway, but it sucks that just not fitting into this tiny mold gives my comic a much lesser chance of succeeding.

I do believe the story matters a great deal, but we can't deny the visibility does help. I think someone also mentioned this, but back in the day with Smack Jeeves, two website redesigns ago, they had it where just updated was on the front page. During that time, my comic would almost ALWAYS get a new subscriber. Even though my art wasn't nearly at the level it is now, I easily had gained 100+ subs. I think my highest was 140-150ish. I would gain a new sub right after posting. Now, with a MUCH better story, much better art, I still struggle at 74 subs. :stuck_out_tongue:

Though on WT I'm actually at like 120ish.

Think of them like traditional publishing houses (like in the book industry), they will 'sell' and push what is in demand by the market right now. And that seems to be korean-style (or heavily inspired) webtoons. Compare that to five years ago when slice of life, gag-a-days with a variety of styles were the big draw.

And remember how Japanese style manga was all the rage in the 2000's? Even that's experiencing somewhat of a drop off currently with people flocking to the color webtoons instead, you can see it on scanslation sites too where they have more and more webtoons.

It's not just that. I helped a little with the last winter fest and the creator actually faced quite some backlash from the people who took part. We made a general survey so get creators feedback and it was slightly disheartening. It hit the creator quite hard if I remember correctly.

Generally, these things are very hard to manage as people are incredibly unreliable, which forces the organizer tobconstantly try to find solutions when people suddenly don't do their part.

That's why adding cameos of my favorite comics is as much as I'm willing to do nowadays. O.o

That's pretty much what I've been facing with most of the collaborations i've been a part of X3 people droping out half way through and leaving everyone to deal with it

but just like finding a good table top group, you can't quit no matter how many bad players you have to suffer through, the end result is always worth it. Tho that's my bias. I guess I'm just used to bad eggs cause of group projects at schools and the horrible depression crippling dnd game ^^;;

Jealousy is a disease among creators, so 99.99% of the creators who have "made it" distanced themselves from the community. I tried to help a few people to monetize their content but didn't apply my advice so I stopped doing it.

As for the new UI and visibility on Tapas...

Here are some stats I can share with you guys:

Monthly

Daily


PS: Tapas has never promoted my series and I turned off comments.

I still think it's a bit early for judgement, especially with the site redesign having just occurred a few days ago. Holiday season and the new year are notorious times for low engagement across all sectors of the entertainment internet like Youtube. People prep for the holidays/finals and then take time to recover from their exhaustion in January and February. I think a clearer picture will be painted once May comes leading into the summer months.

Correlation does not equal causation and all that.

So far I haven't seen too much of a difference except that my novels are gaining more views than usual, especially my novel that's been complete since Nov.
Still too early to say of course but that last bit surprises me. :doggo_shook:

I meant to post the daily*** dashboard was still laggy to load.

I forgot to add that the UI change didn't really bother my series' stats.