Webcomic Visibility (Why do comics get 0 interaction!?)

[darthmongoose]

I think in terms of actionable steps, yes, improving anatomy is a good idea... but also that if we can't even see what's happening due to the comic being so dark and murky, it won't make a difference, hence I'd advise fixing that first.

Getting better at anatomy and stuff is a long road. A couple of quick wins to improve the presentation won't do OP any harm, and might be a bit of a confidence boost.

When I look at things like this:

Read Doomed one(s) :: Character Sheets [Also an Announcement] | Tapas Comics

Yes, there's room for improvement, but the proportions and faces really aren't that bad when OP puts in the effort. On most of the pages, the main issue seems to be a lack of effort, time or attention spent compared to stuff like this. A bit of work learning to apply volumes to anatomical drawing would certainly help give these characters a bit more depth and stuff, but to me the issue is "this person can draw, but needs to actually apply those skills instead of hiding everything in the dark."

So my personal feeling is if we turn on the lights so OP can't hide their scruffy drawing in the dark... and if the better accessibility means more people are looking at the comic... it might help push them to draw to the top end of their abilities more and want to improve to impress that audience?

[candiedcotton]

I do think the issue is that the anatomical issues are being hidden in the dark, yeah. I just feel they may be a wee bit overconfident in their art given their original post so I feel like adding that firm groundness of the work needed in the basics is really important. I think we often don't realize how bad our anatomy can be until we've gotten a good bit better, then we look back and cringe (or I certainly do, lol).

[sable40k]

I'm not familiar with Drew Gooden, but I do watch a lot of Twitch -- it seems to be the overall opinion that Twitch is hard to grow on, requires a very specific skillset, and it is a very hard job/place to showcase one's work. Many popular people have tried it out and bounced right off!

IMO, it's a great comparison as both webcomics and Twitch streaming are oversaturated, but glamorized, and often take place on platforms where discoverability isn't super great. However, I'm also of the opinion that if your stuff's really good, it will eventually be hard for people not to find it. Eventually.

Other people have already weighed in with the art style of your comic, so I'll skip that part and say that it's cool you've been banging away at what can be a very unrewarding pursuit for 6 years. I know many, many people quit way before that. I guess the thing I'd say is that rather than try to fix an old project, sometimes it's good to move on to a new one -- with all that you've learned. Maybe a reboot, maybe something entirely new. Especially if you're staring down burnout and multiple redraws, it can be good to take a soul break.

Thanks for the video, btw! I'm going to give it a watch

[Kelheor]

Honestly, when it comes to comic-making (and art in general) the best thing I learned to do is to compare. Not to stay in the vacuum of your own "I am drawing the best way I can!", but looking at the comics/artworks I consider the best at the moment and ask myself if I am any close to them. If I don't feel I am, I'm adjusting my current course ("I wanna draw better action poses/cooler lighting/better paneling") and proceed. Repeat after a week/month/half a year depending on your satisfaction with the result.

[Im_moron]

On my way to reply to every single one of these! (in the middle of stuff rn, so it'll take time)

Honestly I know what it's like to feel stuck. I've been there! You get to a pretty good standard of drawing and making comics, where all the basic beginner advice is too low-level to help you, all your friends and family tell you you're brilliant and totes super-pro and you're just there going "but there must be something the matter because people aren't looking at my stuff! Aaagh!"

goD yeah, and I'll also give your speech bubbles post a read!

I'm sure your animation skills will come in handy at some point. it's frustrating that that mixed style pioneered by Homestuck can't easily be done on platforms like Tapas and webtoon. I even tried to make a comic like that myself back in the day, and getting to the first [S] page was what killed the project. So much work! Still, being able to animate is super-useful on trailers, ads etc. Plus, hey, being a massive unapologetic Homestuck has never done me any harm! (I voice Kanaya in Let's Read Homestuck on Youtube and did some track art on the official music albums, as well as the "Land of Fans and Music" ones. ).

That doesnt sound like that bad of an idea honestly, i'll save trailers for my back pocket hehe, especially since i make decent music now.

[Im_moron]

Tbh I think their drawing skill is pretty lacking. I don't mean to insult the OP, we've all been there. But there's a seriously poor understanding of basic anatomy, even down to facial symmetry. I honestly feel that's the biggest issue here. Most of the panels don't show a full body (or even 2/3rd body) at any point and usually that's to avoid trying to draw anatomy at all. But it's really off-putting to most readers.

They really really need to work on the basics before touching color theory or light sources.

Edit: Just look at the hand and face in the top three panels of the most recent episode. The fingers are weird mushed noodles and the face has this melting pizza shape.

I do think the issue is that the anatomical issues are being hidden in the dark, yeah. I just feel they may be a wee bit overconfident in their art given their original post so I feel like adding that firm groundness of the work needed in the basics is really important. I think we often don't realize how bad our anatomy can be until we've gotten a good bit better, then we look back and cringe (or I certainly do, lol).

I've been unable to really reply to this since I'm not sure if I can say anything meaningful to this (but I have been reading). What do you consider good or bad anatomy? Because I'm still not exactly sure how I can really use this feedback to get better.

[IndigoShirtProd]

Generally, it's understanding the shape and structure of the human body and being able to portray it believably through art work. It doesn't particularly mean you have to know how draw realistically, though that does help, it just means being able to draw a believable figure in three dimensional space. If anatomy seems too daunting or too obscure of a concept, then I would recommend looking for tutorials (videos, graphics, etc.) that go over how to construct figures from 3D shapes and go from there.

[Iris-Grimoire]

Darthmongoose and everyone already gave such tips, but here's a tiny one that might make a big difference - if it's not stylistic choice, I recommend capitalizing "One(s)" in the title and URL. There's lots of little things that roll up into a big ball of unintentional first impressions that come before art and writing - and a title that feels unprofessional is the first one.

That's the thing too, there are cool comics out there that aren't the most advanced in the fundamentals, but they hit it off with things like polished marketing, contrast, color choice, solid pacing, and that surpasses what an artist might think is the best way to improve. A comic creator (and novel creators considering how much we've got on tapas now, too) needs to wear a couple dozen hats and invest on them as time and patience allows.

[DiegoPalacios]

Many folks already mentioned art as a key variable for a solid first impression......

But i will suggest an alternative that can work if you are struggling with time:

Maybe you can save some money and hire an artist. I did that for one of my comics that required a more detailed art style i can't currently pull off......

Of course, before any commitment, make sure the person you choose has the skills, discipline and integrity for the job, and save some cash to pay upfront. Is hard to convince someone to go on percentages of future profits.

Most of the folks i've hired and worked with are people i know enough to trust.....Met some of them here in Tapas.....

Personally i don't choose the same artist for all projects, it depends a lot of the skills and art style i need for that project.

Another important thing to mention if you wanna hire an artist is that communication is key. Make sure to be clear on what you want. For comics i do a sketch that is clear and legible and send some notes for details i consider important.

Hope this helps!

[thepenmonster]

Because I'm still not exactly sure how I can really use this feedback to get better.

You can't because it's bad critique. Not that Candiedcotton and the others are being malicious or anything. Their replies are pretty normal. But critique is a teaching tool and thus it requires actual teaching to be useful. Pointing out the flaw is easy, teaching how to fix it is difficult and time consuming. Most people don't have the time or the ability to teach and this always leaves the artist not knowing where to go next.

Proko's channel on YouTube is the usual go-to for free anatomy lessons. There are tonnes more if you look. Also, your local library... assuming you live somewhere near one... will have piles and piles of books to choose from.

The rest is just practicing your ass off.

[N1ghtm4r3]

i know it is hard to build an audiance, heck im in the same boat, i know im not the best artist around and there are people way better then me,and so on but i do keep trying my best,what i think holds alot back is how the landscape is for webcomics, alot of the more popular titles seem to be more of the romance genre, so for alot of other genres like scifi /fantasy its much harder to get attention

[Im_moron]

On most of the pages, the main issue seems to be a lack of effort, time or attention spent compared to stuff like this.

It hurts, but you're right
It's definitely not worth the rush if the quality suffers like that (in addition to a plethora of some things I have to be sure to account for!)

it might help push them to draw to the top end of their abilities more and want to improve to impress that audience?

It would be nice to be honest, because its currently kind of discouraging atm to just keep uploading episodes like that.

[Im_moron]

Other people have already weighed in with the art style of your comic, so I'll skip that part and say that it's cool you've been banging away at what can be a very unrewarding pursuit for 6 years. I know many, many people quit way before that. I guess the thing I'd say is that rather than try to fix an old project, sometimes it's good to move on to a new one -- with all that you've learned. Maybe a reboot, maybe something entirely new. Especially if you're staring down burnout and multiple redraws, it can be good to take a soul break.

I've only really done one reboot, and one redraw of an earlier short chapter actually.
Right now, I'm redrawing one of the older chapters because the jump between that and chapter 2 in just paneling is too drastic.

I don't really like the idea of just starting either a whole new series or just reboot it after working on it for this long. It's a disservice to the few readers I actually have (one of which being a friend who actively consumes my comic and gives lots of feedback).

I'll say I have been starting a side project of just for fun on the side that I might one day bring into my comic too (making music with another music learned friend) and its been fulfilling and keeping drawing fresh when I go back to it.

so ye.

[sable40k]

Understandable, and glad you have a side project for some extra juice. I'm working on redrawing some pages myself .

Wish you luck!

[Im_moron]

You can't because it's bad critique. Not that Candiedcotton and the others are being malicious or anything. Their replies are pretty normal. But critique is a teaching tool and thus it requires actual teaching to be useful. Pointing out the flaw is easy, teaching how to fix it is difficult and time consuming. Most people don't have the time or the ability to teach and this always leaves the artist not knowing where to go next.

I used to be something I like to call, too humble. I've taken advice from other people because I either didn't have the confidence or I was quick to believe that whatever a person said was the definitive truth of what was the flaw in my work (regardless of said person's actual merits). I've even taken advice from someone and it just blew up in flames.

Hence why I specifically asked Candiecotton for elaboration in the first place

I don't think Candiecotton is a bad artist or doesn't have the experience to back up their words, or that they are ill-intent, but you're absolutely right. It's easier to tear someone apart instead of trying to help them find solutions (I used to be said people who tore into others, that's destructive criticism, not constructive criticism).

Not to say that I shouldn't ignore EVERYONE who says anything remotely bad, sometimes people have important things to say but are pretty bad at expressing it (I'm people too). I'd lean toward taking criticism with wisdom if that makes sense. Even if it's good or bad, it's not effective if I'm not trying to understand it, haha. I just don't have the balls to call people out like that asdfgh, but yeah, you speak truth.

[Im_moron]

Whenever I pop back into this thread after work in the morning @N1ghtm4r3, I'll check out as many people's comics in this thread as I can, especially the people who are struggling with the same problem I'm dealing with (yours), because it does kind of suck.

WEBCOMIC HIPSTERS SUPPORT EACH OTHER!!!

(this is in reference to @Spectorium_1's advice of interacting with the community, but also this first and foremost comes from a genuine place. If I can't get reader interaction, I'll be reader interaction. I also mentioned in the post to link your comic if you'd like, so long as you're trying to make a real discussion.)

[Im_moron]

Thanks man! Good wishes to you too man!

[candiedcotton]

Telling someone to learn anatomy is not bad critique, it's -common- critique.

There is no structure to the bodies, there is a lack of symmetry, there is no consistency between bodies, there is no understanding of three dimensional space. There is no fluidity to movement, the characters are stiff, often appearing to be floating in a void because there are no established environment shots.

When someone suggests the 'basics of anatomy', that is a literal term in art education. The basics. There are dozens upon dozens of free courses online that literally go over the basics.

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=proko+anatomy+basics

More on point to topic:

It doesn't matter how stylized something is, if you don't know anatomy it will show in your work. So regardless how many ideas get thrown out there, the lack of understanding of anatomy is going to be a problem. I'm not trying to come off mean or anything like that, but if we don't understand what we need to fix then it's never going to be fixed and you end up stuck in the same cycle for years. Which it seems is the case here.

Learning anatomy, learning motion/gesture, learning how light and shadow work, all of these things are part of the basics and they take a very long time and a lot of work to master. It's something you can't do alone and without some form of resource to learn from (like the various youtube videos above).

I would like for everyone here to succeed. We cannot succeed if we are not honestly told what is wrong and what needs to be fixed.

[thepenmonster]

To be tedious about it:

Critique is teaching. If a person won't teach then, as shown by Moron's response, they are not providing anything of use.

What you all gave them was an opinion and advice. None of that was badly intended. That's why it's -common-. But they need more than that if you wanted them to learn and improve.

So teach, teachers. Teach.

[candiedcotton]

I'm not a teacher and critique is telling someone what needs to be fixed, not sitting down and going over how to fix it. OP asked why their comic isn't doing well, I gave my thoughts. I wasn't aware I was required to write an essay on the steps needed to fix everything.

However, if it helps, I did take the time to explain visually what I mean.

Perhaps it will help OP to better understand.

OP:

You can still have it extremely stylized but make changes like the below. Consistency in limb thickness, fingers having structure, understanding of lighting, so forth.