Jun 2015
89 / 116
Jan 2016
Jan 2016
WednesdayAsh
Jan '16
Caelestie

Oh no, i didn't mean the fetishization XD yea that's sucky. But that's my personal opinion, and I'm not afraid of going against "a lot of people".

Nor will I go to bat for "Blue" haha, it was an example of a sex-positive, sex-intensive work that's supposedly literary, and supposedly not porn.

Your view, a valid one, is infact similar to the BL discussion this topic is having right now. "Lots of people"1 think BL is a porn-like ghetto, while "a lot of people" would argue the genre tag shouldn't matter as a description of literary quality.

And I tend to be a seperate art from the creation and creator type person.

Did you know David Bowie was a child rapist? He also inspired an undeniable amount of science fiction and video games.

Can someone be terrible as a person in the past (or present), and inspiring as an artist? Bowie implies yes.

Should we muddle the discussion of artistic merit with moral bankruptcy, I think no.

In this case we're purely discussion the BL label, which lead to a discussion of the legitimacy of the Palme D'Or winning "Blue is the Warmest Color" example. A film that led to my appreciation of the nuances of the LGBTQ world, and led me to a more tolerant and appreciative worldview.

All of the above muddles the discussion of BL labels on Tapastic.

But again feel free to disagree tho.

camillabluejay
Jan '16
LordVincent
      Oh, I'll have to read that one too! Thanks for pointing it out, I'll look it up :D As for my own comic, I feel like I might still have the same problem? I'd wanted to make a comic that had lgtbqa+ characters, but I didn't want the story to be about that. I wanted a story about other things, that happened to have lgbtqa+ characters and themes. So I'm afraid that if I mark it as such, I might annoy people looking for a story ABOUT that. I'm afraid they might be like, "What the hell? It's been 20 pages, and no one's even identified themselves yet." And I'd be like, "Yeah, that's because people are trying to kill them. They're busy."
       I do have story arcs, about one of the boys and his problematic ex-boyfriend, about a boy being asexual but NOT aromantic and the trouble that causes, and a boy trying to deal with being straight in a world where there aren't alot of women. But those don't come til later, and they're in between the action and magic.
      I'd read online that people were tired of everyone making a big deal about lgbtqa+ characters in stories, and just wanted a 'normal' story that had lgtbqa+ characters in it. And I was excited, because that's what my story was, but then I don't know how to market it, haha. But at the same time, I don't want some jerk stumbling into it by accident and going, "Ew, your main character is Bi? GROSS." >: [ 
So, yeah, I feel like I'm kinda trapped in the middle! XD
zwebb90
Jan '16

ill tell you why i do it....cuz its popular, people can deny it all they want and say that they get harassed for showing forbidden love, but that..shit..is...IN. its loved and obsessed over by the mass majority of web comic readers, i uploaded a BL comic as a joke just to prove it, stupid vampire comic is doing better than my real stuff. i'm over here spending years trying to write a serious comic with good art quality, interesting plot and likable characters (trying)...and all this time i could have just slapped a big BL on the cover. meanwhile you got these artist/writers acting like they fighting the good fight by writing BL and complaining about harassment, when they're sitting there with 2K followers... maaaaaan give me a break...yeah anyways, bottom line, it's POPULAR.

LordVincent
Jan '16
camillabluejay

I get your struggle, buddy! In the end, it's your decision as an artist and nobody else's business to decide. Either way works nicely in my opinion.

AffectedMind
Jan '16
1
zwebb90

Lol, hope it's not about me.
Unless you mean some BL vamps, then no, it's not me xD
But yea BL is pretty popular, subs will be growing fast as long as it have BL label on it, no joke, it's actually happening. It doesn't really matter if it's good or bad.

FixerTheWise
Jan '16
zwebb90

It kinda goes to show that on Tapastic at least, subscriptions don't mean shit. Tere's a pretty huge chunk of users who subscribe to things they don't even read. This is what the BL sign exploits. As I said, pretty braindead.

zwebb90
Jan '16
AffectedMind

no i was talking about MY bl vampire story, XD i started uploading it like a month ago and its already doing a lot better than my other stories that have been around for much longer

AffectedMind
Jan '16

Then yes, it can hurt... But you know, most of the subs are probably empty, just bookmarked and won't really give you any feedback, so technically your main comic is still doing better ^^

zwebb90
Jan '16

hahaahh yeah that had crossed my mind, oh well, what can ya do

Kura
Jan '16
3
LordVincent

I just wanna make a comment on this. Comics with the LGBTQIA+ label I actually don't mind, as they actually feel more like the tag is there to get readers from the said named community or readers who might be interested in it.

Something tagged with BL just sounds like bad porn, the labels has turned into click bait for fetish comics as that's what most of the ones I have read with that tag are (not all, there are some that are just fine, but then there are just REALLY horrible ones that are just there for the sake of filling a fetish that happens to be really popular)

To give examples when I was first trying to understand my sexuality make sense of myself I looked up BL (as that is what was recommended to me) it was a bad idea and a horrible experience, here are some following examples that for whatever reason, pop up a LOT when I was going through them.

I read a few BL where it was 'cute/funny' to jam an umbrella (or some other long large objects, whatever the author decided was cool I guess) causally up another guy's ass because 'heheh look at him blush, so cute, he's a uke'

I read a whole bunch where 'girls are evil rapists' yet the guys acted even more like rapists but THAT was ok'

There were a frightening amount of comics where literally all the woman in the world have been killed of (I duno, the reasons very usually it's a virus) so the guys are FORCED to fuck each other because they need to keep population numbers up and there is no one else to reproduce with. They aren't even gay (a lot of them like to bring it up, then they feel confused). They're FORCED to fuck other dudes because there are literally no woman left alive.

The rapists... why are there so many stalker rapists?

I read a comic where this one young boy was unsure about his sexuality and suspected that he might be gay. So what does his 'best friend' do to help him figure it out? Organize a gang rape.

That being said ^^^THIS is what the BL tag means to a lot of people. People are not bothered by it because it's a boy/boy relationship, most people here complaining about the BL titles can read comics that have male/male relations JUST FINE. That's not the issue. The issue is that they are bothered because the BL tag's been associated way too many times with fetish porn trash. It's no longer a tag that targets people in the gay community, it's a tag that targets yaoi and gay porn fetishist fans. (In fact, it technically NEVER was. IF you look it up you will learn that the title originated from Japan, 'Yaoi, also known as Boys' Love (BL), is a Japanese genre of fictional media focusing on romantic or sexual relationships between male characters, typically aimed at a female audience and usually created by female authors. It's not made for the LGBTQIA+ community. It's made for girls with a gay fetish.)

EDIT: Oh, ANOTHER really popular one, a comic where a guy is constantly getting raped, but they believe that they 'deserve it' for whatever reason, they are also addicted to it for some reason. They purposely go out and put themselves in situations were they will get raped because they want to punish themselves because they did something to 'deserve this' (usually the thing they did to deserve it is THEM BEING GAY... so yeah I can't see how a comic were the theme is the main character constantly punishing himself for being gay because it's wrong/unnatural/evil can possibly be aimed at the gay community)

Tindabox
Jan '16

I'm not really bothered by the BL label because it's convenient for people that are actively looking for that sort of thing. The content might be a little questionable, but you can't stop people from drawing what they want.

AffectedMind
Jan '16

The "problem is not that people do them, it's more about the audience, if you draw BL it's more likely to be noticed than your other work. Some creators may feel discouraged because BL have all the attention.

joannekwan(ง ˙o˙)ว here to help~
Jan '16
Kura

Yes, this this is the core of it.

I'll admit, I'm a cis female and I create a male x male romance series, but I know there are gay men reading my story, and I want to do right by them. I want to do right by all people. ; _ ;

TsarLenaSunLit
Jan '16

I think all I can add is "To each their own."

Also not everyone likes the same things. So you are going to offend someone somewhere no matter what you say. I just wish people could act more civil about it. Instead of becoming raging hulk trolls throwing a temper tantrum that a two year old would be proud of.

LordVincent
Jan '16
joannekwan

Women liking male x male and men liking girl x girl isn't bad, I hope noone's trying to imply this... although I do get that feeling from a few posts here. You shouldn't feel any more ashamed about your sexuality and interests than I should about mine.... I.E: Not at all. Unless you're killing people then you probably should BUT ANYWAAAAY

What matters is portrayal and understanding of the subject. I don't want to see another damned yaoi where it's all just fetishized nonsense with SELF LUBRICATING ANUSES WHAT EVEN IS THAT... or the newest trend in yaoi, that's trying to tell us all men want to stick cateters in their partner's urethras.

If it's well portrayed and the characters are well devloped, it doesn't matter one bit if the person behind the comic is a cis straight woman, a gay guy, a transgender person or a damned giraffe. If it's a good story with good art, I'd totes read, I'd totes approve.

LordVincent
Jan '16
FixerTheWise

Subscriptions DO mean shit, it just depends on the series. My comic has 2.7k subs, give an episode a couple days (I update daily) and it'll have 2.7k views or, most of the time, MORE. Let me point out that this comic had a BL label on it until recently (the new thumbnail keeps homophobes out of reach nicely without those two letters). I get a lot of comments and likes and I have a very communicative audience. They point my errors out and support me.

So, I'll get right back to my original point: The thumbnail is the outer face and acts only as such. It works for first impressions, but keeping or losing your audience after that DOES depend on the content itself. Subscribers DO mean shit if you serve them something worth checking for regularily. Don't generalize too much.

FixerTheWise
Jan '16

I didn't generalise. Subscribers can be empty. One can subscribe to a comic and never check it out, or plan to check it out someday, the bottom line is they're not a reliable way to gauge your popularity.

Recieving comments, getting likes and having views means a lot more. You can only do those things if you actively read the comic. From what I hear you have a very good audience and I congratulate you.

But that's what I meant by them "not meaning shit".

And is it inconcievable that people who like BL subscribe just because they see the BL thumbnail?
But I do realise they DO mean shit, i was just trying to cheer up the guy alright?