13 / 43
Nov 2018

I'm highly disagree here. I'm personally tired of stories with primitive, commonplace moral. Especially annoying is when author make huge accent on banal moral and presents it pompously like it is a fresh and clever idea ( no ).
My opinion: the lack of moral is better than accent on banal moral.

I have actually no idea what the story should be, because different people have so different opinions about it (you could see right now different opinions about moral of the story, for example).
But I can tell how I'm creating my stories myself.

During my whole life, when I was in transport or walking or resting, my brain often started to produce different kind of stories and scenes spontaneously. I wrote down some of them - those which were short and had a completed small plot - and just forgot the rest. While my own personality was developing through life, the content of those stories was changing, too. Particularly, they became more NSFW, complicated and dark with time.
During the last year, while I've imagened different sort of situations, action of all kind and consequences of different sci-fi inventions, I've noticed that some characters started to recur in those games of mind. Moreover, they became more precise and alive from scene to scene. Thats how the characters and particular scenes of "the story how humanity blablabla" were formed (actually, there is already much much more stuff in my mind about this story than I can to implement in the reasonable time).
When I already had the bunch of characters and action scenes in my mind, I started to connect them. Thats how I've received the plot (there is a plot, actually, I've even written outline of it down in the notebook). Also I've often wondered how could they do this and that, and how this and that invention could appear and work etc. Thats how the world itself was formed and specified and become sort of small... setting, I dunno?
Eventually, I've started to draw comics about all of it. I don't know how it works, but when some critical mass of content was formed, I just felt the need to implement all of it somehow. It is just my own strange need, nothing more. I didn't even think about making an ideal creation and I'm sure that such a thing don't exist. But in the same time, I'm having fun when I share and discuss my story with others, because it is so interesting for me (if it wasn't, I wouldn't invented it).

In general, I think that when you do anything, the first thing which is reasonable to keep in mind about it is if it good for yourself or not. If the creation of the story is interesting for you and/or make you feel better or just relieved, that means it is good for you, it hit the spot in some way. So in this case it seems reasonable to continue.

P.S. Sorry for such a wall of slurred text ¯_(ツ)_/¯ I hope you was managed to understand at least something...

TL;DR: just create when you feel the need to do it

I think the act of creating is inherently quite meaningful.

It's great when people create stories that feel deep and meaningful, but it's also true that we need all kinds of stories at various levels. Sometimes an important message is communicated, and sometimes something is just fun or sweet or exciting, and sometimes you get a mix, and it's all valid. ^^

Ok, my hubby would claim that you talked to too many art professors right now.

Simply put art can be created for any reason and still be art. The big question is- did it give you something by making it. You the ARTIST... everyone else is secondary. It doesn't have to be planned or random. serious or light hearted. One style or another. The amazing thing about art is everyone gets different things from it.

You may draw something to work out frustration and it may make me laugh, bob think, and susan cry. You may make it contain a message and it may go over everyone's head but Billy- and it may inspire him to do something. You may make something with no intended message and it still inspires someone else.

The important question to ask is why do you want to make a particular bit of art. If it's for fun, then make sure you have fun doing it and forget the rest! If it's because you wanna try a new technique this time- then go for it and learn a new skill! If you want to create something with a message that's important to you- do it and know some people will probably not get/agree with it but that's OK. You just wanna make a picture to make a friend happy, then guess what it is still art. Heck if you just wanna doodle and see what comes out of it then do it! Amazing ideas and work comes from that and it may serve as inspiration for you another day!

In the end.... if you made it and are happy it came into existence then it is, in fact, art. Nothing else matters unless you were trying to do a specific thing.

I'm gonna put it like this. No work is above another! In regards to how it handles its themes, anyways! Somebody else can write a story relating to these heavy themes and still be garbage, you know? There's an important thing that needs to be understood about this. Heavy themes don't automatically make your story better. Include them if you want, but the idea's the same, your story's not gonna magically get a level-up just because you included that. The only thing that matters here is that you find a voice in your writing and that you deliver the story well enough with that same voice. Even if it's a relatively simple plot, you can still tell it in amazing ways.

Besides, I'd argue it's okay and borderline necessary, to have light-hearted stories. That variety in what we can read is fun, and frankly, I wouldn't want everything to have some deep underlying meaning.. that'd have to be exhausting after a while. You can write a story about a leaf blowing in the wind instead of the trials and errors of human society and the implications of it for the future generations- you see what I'm getting at? If you wanna be the person who wrote the former rather than the latter, I'm all for it! The world's dark enough as it is, let your story be a happy place for yourself and others if you want~

It can literally be any of those reasons, dude, that's what's beautiful about art and expressing yourself through it! It's not confined to these rules of what mindset you have to be in before you make anything, you can just go for it because you wanna. On the flip side of it, many people can interpret that art in different ways, and that's where stuff can get interesting.

We all know that one idea of modern art. You know, the type where someone can literally just paint a canvas blue and sell it for millions. There's people that can see it as an experimental piece of texture work, there's people that can see an expression of sadness through the way the brush ran across the canvas, and others.. just see a waste of blue paint. People can make up their own meaning for "meaningless" work and fill in the gaps themselves if needed. You don't need to justify everything you make with a purpose, and if you have to apply some valuable meaning to it, you can just make it the fact that it's your creation and that you're happy with it. You shouldn't need to overcomplicate it further than that or stress yourself out over it.

It goes back to what everyone's saying so far. If you're happy making a story and you're having fun with it. That's all the meaning it needs. Hey, let's make it simpler, if you just wanted to make something, that can be enough as well. Go further on it if you want, but I think that should be at the very base of everything we make. Hope that's a halfway decent answer for you~

Just like any story, i think is up to execution. I think no one likes to be lectured in a preachy way. Generic lessons just for the sake of adding them may not work as well as one expected, like being a cliche or comming of as banal, just being "stuck in the story with ducktape" or ironically being contradicted by the content of the story.

Commonplace moral can be a good thing when it is intended to teach kids. That is why fairy tales have lasted over millenia. But maybe some people may be looking for more complex conflicts and that is valid too.

And sometimes some people may just want some lighter work and forgive/embrace simpler morals. And that is valid too. In the end is up to personal tastes and what the person is looking for in a story.

To continue the narrative of didactic stories, I think I should pull a page from Stephen King's On Writing. Not that I can quote it (the book is at home), and I'm sure we've all been beaten to death with the book by now.

However, I feel his approach to writing was much more candid than coming at the story with a defined theme. He sits down and just hashes out a draft. He has a concept for what he wants the story to be, some characters, then he just writes the damned thing.

It's the second draft when everything is decided. Thats when recurring themes, elements of storytelling, and otherwise become painfully evident in the work. That's when the theme is REALLY created.

What it comes down to, is that elements of theme in storytelling will find their way into your work, as @shazzbaa said. You may not know it until later.

I just wouldn't ever stress about it. Just write your story. Be mindful of what you are putting into it. Write it how you want. Eventually, you will find that you have created a theme all on your own.

I'm a big believer in letting audiences create their own morals for my stories.

The type of stories I tell -- with gangsters, cosmic horrors, and the supernatural -- I don't create a moral behind them. I just take themes I like and tell a story. Sometimes, I might have a message that's personal to me, but I don't really strive to shove it down my audience's throat.

It's up to them to take meaning from it, meaning that holds something to them. Quite frankly, I love works like that, that give you a chance to interpret and kinda leave you thinking.

It's why I work with mostly flawed characters. Even if they are good people, they might have to make hard decisions.

I don't think there HAS to be a moral or a point to a work. I'm sure there are great stories out there that don't really have any morals or points but they're still great. For example, The Big Lebowski is pretty much just a comedy movie that doesn't exist to teach you any lessons; it just exists to make you laugh and it does a good job of it.

For my own stories, I tend to like to put things in it things that worry or bother me personally. I once wrote a character who was really terrified of the future because it's something that I worry about, too. At the end, he faced the thing that terrified him in his future and he got to move on with his life. I usually prefer stories like this where a writer communicates their own doubts or insecurities about something because it makes the story feel more genuine and real.

But not all stories have to be deep or have a message as I said earlier. Disney movies are usually pretty simple and in my opinion pretty flat, but they're still incredibly enjoyable despite their very simple messages and the viewer can still get something rich out of them.

My personal philosophy:


(I'm not religious though)

Ideally I am able to joyfully keep working even while knowing there is no real meaning behind it. But that's easier said than done, so sometimes I still struggle with the existential crisis thing.

At the same time, I do want to create things that genuinely benefit people. And I've thought about this a lot, to be honest. What kind of art or story can benefit people the most?

Is it enough for something to simply be beautiful? Frankly, art and stories are so cheap nowadays - by that I mean there is so much of it that I wonder if people have become somewhat desensitized due to sheer overexposure. As an artist, it's nice to believe that the thing I spend hours creating will really inspire someone, but most of the time someone will look at it for a few seconds, hopefully crack a smile, and then move along as if nothing happened. If that's the best that I can do, so be it, but I have to wonder if that's really it, you know?

I also don't want to tell stories just for the sake of entertainment or as a device for escapism. Firstly, because so much of that already exists that it seems redundant to make one more story like that when there are already millions of others that can fulfill basically the same need. Secondly, because I think escapism isn't the best way to deal with life. Rather than making something comfortable that helps people forget about their problems, I'd like to make something that inspires people to face their problems - that changes their actions in real life. But how to do that - I'm not sure at all...

TL;DR I want to make people's lives better beyond just providing entertainment but have no idea what I'm doing.

Meanwhile I just keep practicing so that if/whenever I figure it out, my lack of skill won't hold me back.

Thoughtfulness, meaningfullness and impact can manifest in many ways. Not only with serious or deep topics.

A lighthearted story can help a person to rest their mind after a long day. People can bond over watching a comedy. If a story wakes up the interest of people and fulfill its purpose (it could be many things, to entertain, to make people think, escapism, to teach a life lesson, etc...), then that story is meaningfull for them.

Thoughtfullness depend more on how deeply was thought. Even the most absurd and silly work can be brilliant master piece if it`s properly executed.

As many people already said, tell the story you want to tell, you have higher chances of being meaningfull if you follow the message from your heart.

This is a story with lots of fantastical elements and magic system and angels, but in the end its not about any of that. To put it as simply as I can; It's about flawed people trying to hold onto the better parts of themselves. Dunno if it comes across, not yet at least since I barely began to scratch the surface.


This sounds not bad and is actually remind me some of my own experience with writing. I've noticed that my own stories, when they reach completed form, often express some ideas, which are close to me, even if I didn't mean to put them into story intentionally.
Usually it comes from that I like to develop imperfect characters, who sometimes make faulty decisions (faulty in my own opinion, of course). And then describe the consequences of those wrong decisions (which could be considered as a "punishment" from the point of view of moralist). Eventually, it bears the imprint of my own ideas about how the world works (for example, what you shouldn't do if you don't want to die painfully or something. ¯_(ツ)_/¯ )
So, it is actually hard to make the big, consequent and interesting story with complete absence of moral of some sort. I just don't like when the idea or moral of the story appears to be banal, because for me personally banal = disappointing. :stuck_out_tongue:

I'm curious about this particular phrase. What do you mean by "good"? :slight_smile:

Well, of course it will depend of the lesson, but some lessons like "don`t steal" are a good thing to teach to kids. Even if it is considered common sense, because kids are learning about the world.

Well... as far as I know, in some cultures stealing considered like something which is ok.
For example, if I'm not mistaken, in ancient Sparta boys were kept on hungry ration. It was expected that they would supplement their diet by stealing food. If someone catch boy when he was stealing, he was punished, but not for stealing itself, rather for the fact that he was catched.
That's how they tried to teach them to support themself by all means or being stealthy or whatever.

Just imagine the hypothetical situation:
1. You have taught boy not to steal
2. He accidentally walk into the space-time anomaly and appeared in ancient Sparta!..
3. ..and died from starving because he was taught not to steal. :smirk: :smirk: :smirk:

Was it good for him eventually to be taught that way?!! Poor boy!!! :joy:

"remember kids, stealing is bad, unless a space-time anomaly happens and you are transported to ancient Sparta, in that case stealing is neccesary because in ancient Sparta, only the ruthless survives"

I'm a death of the author kinda person. Whatever meaning I may or may not have put into it, it doesn't matter as much as what the reader takes from it. I didn't pick a meaning or theme, I just wanted to tell a story about interesting characters and interesting plots. But as the characters got their arcs, that's where some meaning turned up. If I had to say what themes I saw, it things like at one point does a sentient creation have rights over its own existence, overcoming guilt and some nature vs nurture. But it's not the sorta thing where a character is going to turn to the camera and go "remember to always be kind". People will take whatever they want from it.

And sometimes it's nice not to have a meaning too. Kids media often has a heavy handed moral, but just as often I watch/read something I could care less what the moral/meaning is, I'm enjoying it on its surface level. There's an anime called Selector WIXOSS, it was a great psychological piece, but certain areas of the fans will take great pleasure telling you how it's an analogy for God and Satan and the complexity of gambling and addiction as motives for the main character and tell me I obviously didn't understand a lot of the show if I missed these things.I enjoyed the show without having to find some deep metaphor and hidden layers to the narrative.

Personally I believe in creation for the sake of creation. It doesn’t have to have some big meaning behind it. I’ve found that even if you don’t have a meaning in mind, you’ll include something subconsciously anyway.

That and it’s the readers who find meaning in the work.

Sure you can have an intention behind it, but that doesn’t mean everyone will take it as intended. Some may even see the exact opposite of what you intended.

Instead of focusing on some grand meaning, I focus more on themes. For instance, tho this is spoilery for my comic, forgiveness is a theme but not in the way you might expect. The way I intend to show forgiveness is for the sake of the one doing the forgiving, not the one who gets forgiven.

Also friendship. Valuing life. Creativity. Individualism. Learning to rely on yourself. But meaning? Well I suppose it has sort of a meeting but saying it would ruin the whole thing.

I guess one thing is I negatively show those that think they have the authority to make absolute moral judgments. Or like thinking you know what’s best for everyone. Because that rejects the very idea of the individual. Everyone is different ergo they don’t need to be treated all the same.

If I had to boil it down to a single meaning it would be the value of Individualism and the evils of Collectiveism. But I’m certain some people will get the opposite meaning out of it somehow.

But is that the meaning? Idk. I mostly just want to tell an interesting story.

I also enjoy escapism but also works that encourages facing reality. There’s a time and place for escapism, it can help people learn to face their problems in ways that are not immediately obvious. You just never know what’s going to strike the right cord in people.

Which is exactly why I believe in creating for the sake of it. Insert a meaning or don’t, the sheer act of creation itself holds meaning. Make it meaningless, meaningless crap can be inspiring as well. Hell, one thing I found meaning is PASWG which was literally about raunchy angels and was created when completely drunk. It’s stupid, fun, has a good plot, but does it mean anything? Not really. It’s about a couple of slutty, bitchy, gluttonous fallen angels who ultimately don’t learn any lessons. But I found meaning in it.

So I wouldn’t stress to hard about meaning.

This harkens back to the idea of didactic stories. The reason you don't like them (i imagine) is because these kinds of stories often look down on the reader as someone ignorant or in need of learning. It's why even in children's stories (sorry @DiegoPalacios) it's a bad idea to add a clear moral at the end. In reality, it turns people off very quickly. Especially kids, who just want a fun story.

Think of the difference between the Lord of the Rings and The Lion the Witch and the Wardrobe. Both have very similar themes. They're both Christian allegory, to some degree. However, LWW was VERY obvious in its allegory, and thusly came off a bit pointed and kind of 'kiddish' in a bad way. Where as LOTR is very clearly more long-lasting and hard hitting. It grabs readers in a much broader way, both emotionally and relationally than LWW does. This is because its thematic elements are hidden. Their subtle. They aren't slapping the reader across the face at the turn of every page.

In short. Subtlety is key! Don't be didactic. It's bad for your readers. They don't like it :slight_smile:

you can be didactic if you do it subtly and avoiding being preachy. But i agree that some messages can be handled better.