What makes LGBT stories so popular here and on similar platforms?

arxianfall 2021-03-20 15:27:42 UTC #1

No hate, I'm only curious of the phenomena. It's not my cup of tea so I know nothing of this particular niche.
Here, Webtoons, Webnovels etc. sometimes it feels like this is their only content judging by the front page.

My theories for now are:

It's the only place where fans can get dedicated content compared to being forced into other media. If it's so, I hope all you have a good laugh all the way to the bank!
Fans are vocal and supportive and that in turns supports authors.
Inertia. "Everybody's doing it."
Easier to do and you already get a hook.
Actually pays: But romance and erotica always pay.

What am I missing?

Hope this topic doesn't degrade into a name calling party. The Great Labeling!

Iris-Grimoire 2021-03-20 15:46:26 UTC #2

It's mostly that first point, actually. Independent media is the best place to get content that you can enjoy as an LGBT+ person - no company mandates(rare even if it's a Premium/Early Acess series), you can look over the creator's socials and see if they truly know their stuff, and it's a personal experience injected into a story because the team is so small and the message doesn't get diluted over production.

For example, after you spend a decade or so seeing every nonbinary character be nonhuman or a robot for easy diversity points, you come in here and find a comic where it's a person, based on real life experiences, and it's fun and well made? You're golden.

(this also applies to indie video games, though of course, it's way harder to go through the other steps since it can go as far as dozens of people instead of 5 at best. As an actual example, Bugsnax by Young Horses was almost a Bury Your Gays story since they thought of the tragedy before the characters, but since the team was small and had good communication, the main writer was given guidance on it and changed it to be far better than if they were doing it alone or just following the Sony partnership. As a result, the game REALLY got big by being such a breath of fresh air in the LGBT+ department!)

darthmongoose 2021-03-20 15:54:19 UTC #3

For me, the main ones are:

It's a place to supply for a demand that mainstream media isn't providing for. LGBTQIA+ people want stories we can relate to, and then there's also a cishet audience that finds it sexy which... well that's not my personal cup of tea, but I guess if it's making money and so helping LGBTQIA+ creators get financial support to make content we want I can't complain too much.
I want to make stories about people like me. Because I'm gay. I'm a woman so I write mostly stories about women. Most of my friends are LGBTQ+ so I write about groups of queer people hanging out because I can relate to that. I've written straight romance about straight characters in the past and it tends to feel a little fake a lot of the time. It's nice to have a place where I don't have to be fake.

Phantomlight 2021-03-20 15:58:23 UTC #4

Personally this bullet point doesn't make sense since it's disrespectful to assume that something is easier than something else. For example when people say art is easier? Art isn't easier, it takes a lot of hard work, passion, researching, referencing, planning, materials and everything has different challenges sure and varying degrees of those challenges, sure, but I feel like nothing is easy, not even if your job is sitting in a chair staring at the wall because it causes pain and fatigue (mentally and physically). Like if this bullet point was true, then there are other genres that are easier or more difficult? I think the creators of other genres would also disagree with the above bullet point.

NickRowler 2021-03-20 15:59:10 UTC #5

LGBTQ+ want to read stories about them or their community yet mainstream media tends to not want to touch these topics due to being afraid of backlash or "mass marketability". And sometimes when they do do it, it is written by someone with a very limited knowledge of someone from the background. There is also issues with a lot of gay representation being mostly uppermiddle class white, young, skinny, and pretty, and the community feels like that is a limited representation of the gay community as a whole.

Online platforms allow for more under represented groups to create stories about them. It also allows for authors (for better or worse) have easier interaction with their readers to represent groups in a more appropriate way.

skyfarron 2021-03-20 16:10:12 UTC #6

that's easy, everyone is gay

samiluu 2021-03-20 16:14:48 UTC #7

yes! it's as most people say. When we open the TV we rarely get LGBT+ content (and if we do, sure the film/series are talking about the main character's sexuality, it's not like " this main character is bi and that's all" you know, is like we have to always have reasons to be LGBT+ and in real life is like: idk I also go to the supermarket, I also go to the bathroom, I also go for a walk with friends, my sexuality is not everything in my life
In comics, specially manga, there has always been androgeny and sometimes even LGBT+ characters, even if it's not the best representation, and I think that's why we always end up being comic freaks. And of course alternative comics are even better, so tapastic, webtoons, etc. are good places for LGBT+ artists to raise our voices

samiluu 2021-03-20 16:15:19 UTC #8

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GumshoeComix 2021-03-20 16:21:44 UTC #9

well Mainstream comic publishers are kind of old-school and they don't like publishing BL or GL unless it already has an established audience so they know it'll make $$$
It's a lot easier to do it online. especially where a lot of LGBT are always online kind of people anyway

ninjashira 2021-03-20 16:26:23 UTC #10

I agree with the other commenters. Places like Tapas and Webtoons are some of the only avenues for LGBT+ people to read LGBT+ content. As much as traditional publishing may be attempting to be more inclusive and tell more stories of LGBT+ characters and relationships, the pickings are still pretty slim. I'm under the LGBT+ umbrella, and I enjoy reading stories about characters who are as well, so I come to sites like Tapas and Webtoons to read those stories that I can't get in mainstream comics.

As an artist and a writer, it's the same principle. I'm not throwing a gay romance into my story just for gits and shiggles or for pageviews or whatever, I'm incorporating a gay romance into a trope that has historically been a very "pretty straight girl"-dominated story, because as an LGBT+ creator, I want to have LGBT+ characters.

I also think representation in media is super important. Not only does it humanize "the other" to people who might never have considered things from another point of view, but it can also help people who might be questioning their own sexualities, and seeing that characters and relationships like that not only exist, but are normal and acceptable. I didn't even know asexuality was an option until I was in my late twenties, and it caused me so much stress and anxiety thinking there was something wrong with me. If there was one single character in media I was consuming who was also asexual, just so I was aware that it was even okay for a person to not experience sexual attraction, it probably would have spared me a lot of heartache, stress, and abusive relationships.

skyfarron 2021-03-20 16:26:49 UTC #11

all of my stories that mention relationships end up being LGBT just because that's how i am, and the kind of people i tend to write.

arxianfall 2021-03-20 16:27:16 UTC #12

@Iris-Grimoire Trust me it's irritating for me as well as it doesn't add anything to the character or a story and it only feels like a forced statement. I compare it a lot to that joke where you go ask a work partner something and they swiftly reply with "I have a boyfriend!"

@darthmongoose Same reason why I can't portray children. I have no experience with them to be able to make them feel like real children. I wonder now in your case how it feel when you notice that fakeness. If you have any examples?

@Phantomlight Nah, it's not. Some things are easier than others and people find some things easier than others. And choosing the path of least resistance isn't something offensive it's a natural law. When I ask these types of things I try not to sugarcoat options or avoid the painful ones. So I added that point as an option and theory not as a statement.

@NickRowler I always remember in Peter Capaldi's era of Doctor Who that the companion, Bill Pots had to throw her orientantion around once every few lines. It actually took away from the character. She was very interesting to follow around when that part didn't come up
To be fair, except for the weird guys in alleys at 3 AM (I'm not a drug dealer), the ones I've met were quite attractive.

darthmongoose 2021-03-20 16:49:57 UTC #13

I mean, I can post some of my terrible attempts at straight romance comics but.... they're... not...good.......

Basically the main issue is that I would tend to make the male character extremely bland, because at the time, being a closet lesbian, the only way I could imagine finding a relationship with a man tolerable was if he was objectively nice to look at, like a nice but tasteful painting, was completely passive and unthreatening and expected nothing from me. When straight/bi/pan women write stories with attractive men in them, they draw and write the men sexy, like you can just tell when somebody is drawing or writing a character and thinking "phwoaaar yes this is sexy!" They have sexy bodies, sexy personalities and they get into sexy scenarios with the love interest. For me, just trying to imagine that was repulsive, so my romance scenes were very.... staged, very by-the-numbers and copied from what I'd seen in other media and thought not "mmm yess!" but "well, that seems... cute and tolerable I guess." The bodylanguage was always very cold, like they were always far away from each other, there was no touching or even leaning in, no flirty looks or anything. My straight romance stuff from before I came out was just bland and dull to read. I did it because I thought romance would go down well, and at the time I didn't see it as viable to do a gay romance.

Funnily though there's plenty of m/f flirting in my current comic, because after coming out and getting into relationships, I got a lot better at just understanding how to depict being attracted to people generally. Instead of thinking in terms of "what kind of man would I find tolerable?" I instead think more like "what kind of man are my friends who like men into?" and to then have characters react as I can imagine reacting to a gorgeous lady.

If you want to find for yourself what it's like... try writing and drawing a gay romance.

Phantomlight 2021-03-20 16:56:11 UTC #14

I feel like it's all subjective like you pointed out here, like each person is different, that's why I said saying something is easier doesn't make sense to me personally. Like I said it'd probably be more difficult in different ways or degrees. But perhaps I'm not fully understanding? So when you say easier to do you mean like easier to create a work about LGBT+ characters? If so, again that would depend on the person and even then, I don't think creating works in general is an easy thing to do.

crowstories 2021-03-20 17:11:44 UTC #15

Like others have said, what isn't available in mainstream media we make for ourselves and each other.

With that said, it sounds like tapas must be showing us a different front page. I just see a ton of straight romance and the occasional BL (which for the most part I don't consider to be real LGBT+ content, as most of is it made for straight women, by straight women -- there's a reason it's a separate genre), plus the usual "I'm a mediocre teenage boy who somehow became OP!" stuff.

LMAO I'm currently struggling with this as well.... like I know how that romance is gonna turn out (or not) in the end, but getting through it feels like a damn chore and I find my story meandering about as I try to avoid it. It's like I'm ace/aro or something

Ordinaryaverageguy 2021-03-20 21:28:50 UTC #16

But some things are easier than others, aren't they? Though what those things are sometimes differs from person to person, depending on their talents & time available to acquire skills. I don't think there was anything disrespectful there. For LGBT+ people it probably is easier to write about LGBT+ characters.

Phantomlight 2021-03-20 22:28:49 UTC #17

I think the word "undermines" might be a bit more appropriate rather than disrespectful, to be honest I wasn't sure what word was most appropriate at the time.

Personally, it doesn't make sense to me when people brand things as easy. Like the example I provided, most people think art in general is easy which isn't true, yes there are people who have different circumstances, skills, etc, but I don't think art should be considered easy generally speaking. Same for this instance, I feel it undermines the hard work and efforts of creators. I know it wasn't the intention of @arxianfall, they're just asking a question. It was just a theory they wanted to discuss/throw out there. Like you mentioned and I agree, it's subjective, differs from person to person.

Maybe I'm off the mark here, I just have had personal experiences of people telling me one thing I do is easy and something else is considered more difficult and it just seems baffling to me because although it varies from person to person, people brand things as difficult and are sure they won't be able to do something because they've mentally branded it as impossibly difficult or they call it easy and undermine the work of others. I don't know if I'm making sense anymore xD

Freemints30 2021-03-20 23:00:30 UTC #18

Was.... Was popular. Cus seeing the front page of Tapas currently is tells a different story. M/f romance villainess with occasionally BL (usually written by straight women). Mostly imports. What front page you are looking at? Cus Im not seeing that nowdays.

I can go on a rant about this but Im gonna save that for another day.

But same as everyone said. We just want more LGBT+ people in stories. Mainstream are usually too scared (especially when they try to get into the Chinses market to make money) so we flock to places that would (or use to) promote it actively on the front page without fear of back lash

Ordinaryaverageguy 2021-03-20 23:30:18 UTC #19

I agree. What comes easy to you or I will maybe seem quite difficult to others. When someone says a thing is easy, it may only mean easy for them or for a certain group who has the skills to make it look easy.

arxianfall 2021-03-20 23:33:45 UTC #20

That's why I said creators should laugh all the way to the bank. Mainstream wants you as an audience but they have to work with the least offensive material and to take care of their main market sensibilities.

In the end it comes out as a material that bores everybody and angers a few. The only winners are youtube creators since they get to make content.