When you can't afford to pay for help, how do you manage alone?

[DokiDokiTsuna]

I just haven't been able to stop thinking about this indie project I've seen going around on Twitter; where the creator was doing this strange humblebrag along the lines of "I know I can't afford to hire people to help with my indie animated film, so instead of exploiting artists, ewww, I've spent 20 hours a day 7 days a week working on this all by myself for the last two years! :D"

And I was just like...I...I see the good in that statement that you're trying to emphasize, but there is some real, real bad in that statement as well and it's hard to ignore. o_O Self-harm is still harm...being willing to put yourself through awful, inhumane working conditions is not the flex you think it is...

And then I saw another post today, I think by the same person***, adding additional info about how they're now starting a Kickstarter to finish their film because they quit their job and used their LIFE SAVINGS to shut themselves at home and animate it, and they're almost out of money. And that horrified me even more, tbh...

It's the realization that, after you're done pushing your body to the breaking point for the sake of this one project that no one knows about (let's be realistic)...you won't even have a safety net. ._. No money to tend to an RSI, or even just go on vacation and REST for a little while. Or to hire someone to promote the dang thing after it's done. Every cent is going towards just keeping yourself alive to make this project exist-- Why?? I get that art is important on a personal level; I'm no stranger to making questionable decisions for the sake of my work, but why go SO far?? Is it really worth it...?

I think what bothers me the most is the combination of the two ideas, devoting yourself body and soul and future to one project, AND presenting yourself as a positive example for others to follow. I hope to god they don't have impressionable young animators watching them who think this is anything close to a good idea. There is a reason why so many indie projects take several years to get done, it's because when you're a 1 or 2-man team, that's often the only SANE timeline you can manage. o_O
Taking the time to work your day job and have a steady income, or to just relax and not work on anything occasionally, to have fun and live a life outside of your art as well...that's not a waste. For most people, it's a necessity, in order to continue living as a capable, creative human being.

And honestly (this is a little unfair, but still) I would be wary of working with someone who's willing to do that to themselves. Because that's the natural expectation when you start an indie project, right? You'll work alone for now, get the first step of the project done just to show people what you can do, and eventually you'll have enough notoriety and/or funds to build a team to do more.
But I wouldn't want to join a team led by someone who damn near killed themselves just on Step 1, because I'd be asking myself "are they going to expect me to do the same...?" Are they really going to work like crazy for the SOLE purpose of simply having a fast turnaround time, and then lead a team of people who all have perfectly normal work schedules...? Without peer-pressuring them or shaming them into doing more, to go 12 hours a day 7 days a week, or 10 hours a day 6 days a week? I mean, neither of those (despite still being inhumane) are as much as THEY had to work...surely their paid employees should be willing to handle that...
^You see that kind of thinking every day from professionals in the art world; I would not be surprised at all to see it from someone in the indie sphere, and I wouldn't be willing to take that chance. =/

Anyway, to actually answer the title question: I just try to make regular progress; as long as something new got done since last month, I'm doing fine, and if I keep going eventually I'll finish. Slow and steady wins the race.
And even when I push myself to meet a deadline, I don't let it take over my life. I may have to work on a certain project every single day for like, three weeks (which in itself is enough to make me feel like I'm losing my grip on reality), but when I get tired I rest. If on one of those days, I can only work 2 hours before quitting, well, two hours is still better than zero hours. And if it comes down to it, I'd rather take more time to do something well and have the energy to enjoy my success, than to make myself so miserable over an arbitrary self-imposed deadline that I'm too tired and in too much pain to celebrate.

***It occured to me while writing this that they might've been two different projects (I feel like I saw different imagery...) but I chalk this uncertainty up to so many indie projects having the same bland character designs and 'tanktop-punk' techno-fantasy aesthetics, which is a whole 'nother rant that I'll probably write out someday. ^^; But seriously, folks, if you're going to bet the farm on an indie film/show/game, consult a character/environment designer to help make your work stand out, and not look like "Unoriginal Pipe Dream #258". For example, Studio MDHR at least gambled on something interesting and unique that stood out at first glance-- even now, there aren't many properties out there that you could mistake Cuphead for. 'Character A goes on an adventure in a post-apocalyptic world,' on the other hand...without a strong MC design at the very least, I wouldn't give you a snowball's chance in hell. :T

[Lensing]

That guy probably just should have worked his ass off in a regular job and then save enough money to pay artists to fulfill
his dream. There is nothing in this guys´behavior that I see as a positive example, it´s just a bunch of bad decisions

[darthmongoose]

Oh geez... yeah, I've worked with and known a lot of people like that.

It's hard to deal with really, because a lot of people aren't making things, or making them via whatever method and schedule they're using, for logical reasons. Some of them are aware on some level that they're not being logical, while others are mired in denial or under a pile or logic fallacies so deep that trying to even gently, kindly talk them out from under it all provokes a really angry, defensive response.

The problem is, that while it's true that generally people who succeeded at making comics and animation and stuff worked hard... it doesn't necessarily mean that therefore if you just throw enough hard work at a project, and go through enough righteous suffering in the name of your art, that the final product will be good or entertaining. Some people think that because art is hard, that therefore making yourself suffer will make the art good; they've got things mixed up, and think that poverty and suffering; common by-products of being an artist, are somehow the core ingredients to making great art. It's not true, of course. You may, at points suffer while making art, and you may be under-appreciated or under-compensated... but if your work isn't connecting with people, throwing suffering at it, working way into the night like you're some kind of medieval holy hermit, won't invite some sort of divine favour. It may cause one or two people to say "Look at this person! Look at how hard they're working! Attention must be paid!", but most people will say "Okay but... nobody forced them to work alone til 4AM in a freezing room on a project we've all said isn't really clicking just to prove a point."

And there's the thing; people who work this way are often...erm...a bit uncompromising and arrogant. Their work can't connect with an audience, because they don't make work for other people to enjoy, they make work only to show the world their own deep feelings, or skill or self-martyrdom on the altar of art. They can't find anyone to work with because their vision is so centred around showing their own feelings and skills that nobody else can feel like part of the picture, and they won't change (or as they'll say, compromise) their vision in the name of potentially profiting, so the other person has nothing to gain through helping.

When you see people like that, you may at first be moved to sympathy. Oh no! This poor, suffering artist, tweeting away about how nobody helps them and how they have no money, life isn't fair, people only want low-effort dross! And you'll want to help them, of course! How can people be so cruel as to leave such a wonderful artist in the lurch!? ...But chances are actually pretty high that lots of people have tried to help this person. A lot of people have probably urged them to maybe make some changes to how they make their thing to make it more feasible, or more likely to get investment so it can be made, and got shot down. A lot of people have probably donated money or time in the past, been briefly thanked before the artist goes back to moaning about their situation like it never happened... Hell, I've even seen people like this get contracts or offers and the like, and they often turn them down or let them expire. Because ultimately, you're looking at somebody who wants to suffer.

Don't get dragged into the lives of people like that. It'll only make you hopeless and miserable. No matter how brilliant they are as creators, they're like a whirlpool that sucks everything in, and nothing they achieve will ever fix that emptiness. If they succeed, they'll just complain about it or self-sabotage.

And on your end, if you just keep making stuff of a reasonable quality level within the constraints of your time and resources, you will attract people to you over time. If you can't offer money, you can usually offer something else, like fun, visibility, or a stake in a project that does look likely to succeed. Time and money are interchangeable in art, and more people than you might think are willing to invest time in a project in the hopes of getting money out once you've built up goodwill by consistently getting stuff done and you seem confident and are just pleasant to work with. If you're always burning the candle at both ends, it never bodes well for working with a team, because it's just poor time management. An artist who gets a decent looking comic done that's decently entertaining, but has time for healthy relationships and a good work-life balance inspires confidence in others.

[tarraxahum]

I feel mildly called out 'cause I've been drawing my comic alone while holding myself up to a schedule it usually takes three people to handle. But I'll be honest with you, it's not because of some holy reason of not exploiting artists, it's not even because of me being broke - I'm just in a hyperfixated zone, that's it. Also I do work and do other stuff inbetween, it's not THAT bad.

I will most likely have to revise my approach further down the line, but also if anyone else has hyperfixations then you probably know this fear of 'If I ever stop I'll lose focus and then will never come back to finish the project again'. Will have to figure something out with that.

But even if you (the hypothetical 'you') are crunching, I think the answer is still, like... Don't forget to live, however much your project in important to you. Let it take five years instead of two. Otherwise, even if you don't suffer health complications, you'll still lose two years to a blur.

[Awesomeness_Studios]

All this is make a very good point, and it made me think about the struggles people have with paid vs unpaid partnerships. While yes paying people upfront is always the better option, there are some alternatives depending on the situation and the people you’re asking. I once knew someone who was willing to draw someone else’s comic for free just so he could get into the swing of making them again. I myself am not willing to draw for free unless in certain circumstances like as a gift for a friend or for a game (there are definitely more circumstances than this but they are pretty hyper-specific cases I feel).

If you (hypothetical “you”) cannot afford a team, ask a good friend to help out and just make it a fun project for the two of you. If you hype up the stakes too much, more stress and more work will follow and then you might need to compensate that with some cash real soon.

[NickRowler]

I am sort of frustrated with the backstory behind the creation of Cuphead becoming somewhat of this new standard of how people view indie projects. Yet the creator went to an extreme and was lucky it paid off in the end.

Because you could end up with a Thief and the Cobbler situation which took almost 3 decades to complete. You can find several documentaries about the creation of the film, it was definitely extreme. Yet in the end, even tho the film is well animated in parts, it doesn’t work well as a narrative.

I think if people are interested in creating animation. They should start small and work up. A lot of well loved animated shows started out as pilots. Plus with digital animation, you can make pretty good looking stuff with puppet animation. Gods’ School is an indie project that uses this technique and it looks amazing. Some productions will use a mix of puppet and hand drawn. That is what shows like Rick and Morty does.

I think a lot of people get caught up in trying to be their own Disney or Miyazaki when skill wise they aren’t at that level yet.

[cherrystark]

Reading this, I got the sense that this guy had an inflated ego and sense of self-worth. Because honestly, he's probably not doing it "alone". Historically, the men who "claim" to do it all by themselves with whatever their field is often live with their parents or with their partner's family since they can't afford to rent. Their wives/girlfriends are maintaining the household, holding down who knows how many jobs, caring for their children, and doing whatever else the man needed to fulfill his "dream". He's definitely not doing it by himself. Even William Marston relied heavily on his female partners to create Wonder Woman.

Every dream requires work and sacrifice but you have to find where the limit is. Writing/animating is hard. While my books have made money, they've made pennies in comparison to what I'd need to live on. So I can't quit my day job. Other dreams are "easier" to achieve. If you want to make custom gowns - start sewing. If your work is good, they'll sell and you can charge whatever you want. If you want to be a professional photographer, get the gear and start taking gigs. You get the gist.

The amount of time/effort he's spending on this film is admirable to a degree. But what happens when it's finished? Will it be any good? Can he enter it into any festivals? How's he going to be able to profit from it? While some people say they don't do it for the readers/viewers, we ALL want someone to look at our work. And if it's not good and/or no one wants to look at it, was all his time wasted?

[Nugtown]

I've put myself in a similar position albeit for different reasons and people have, even without being heavy handed about the draw hermit-ism in the particular conversations I was a part of- I have had them stick their nose up at me, because I think they must be assuming that I must be looking for some attention for the percieved effort (I work less hard than people think, it is just become easier to finish things over time). I have begged for help locally speaking, (since the work is co-authored if you know what I mean) and would still die just to have one person help me through the part I hate the most.

Like Tarraxahum, it is an extreme hyperfixation, which is like if you know, you know. If you don't then I can't explain it. I think I am sick of beating myself up for not having the energy to balance being a wagie and the 6-8 hours needed to meet monthly chapter goals. Ironically I have more time to rest, more time to focus on my health and I can still manage a page a day.

[rajillustration]

Pressing F to doubt this guy actually works 20 hours a day 7 days a week for 2 years. ah, he sounds like a type.

honestly this is why I think it's sometimes really good to have check in's, like really honest check in's with how your work is coming along, and to schedule long breaks a few times a year from your projects so you can reset any bad habits you've developed towards overworking on it or obsessing over it. Like, I keep a journal about my project goals (among other things), update it every day, reread it every week and every month to see if there's patterns I've developed, keep track what is working towards those goals, what is not, and I try to be accountable for if it is not evolving the direction I wished and if it's time to either shelf it or ask for help.

Yet for an animator they could have recurring income through patreon and youtube ads/sponsorships of their previous content if they're very popular (so they'd be a content creator/art influencer, basically) like there could be an income we can't see.

As for people that just ignore how business works and fall headfirst into their work. There's a bit of a scarcity mindset there, where it's like "I have to do this now, while I have access to a computer, or I will never be able to do it again." Where they're thinking in the short term and not in the long term. So working on the project can turn into a coping mechanism, and people like that have trust issues and don't usually work with others, really, even if they could afford it.

[RedLenai]

I personally won't know exactly the situation behind these "people who risked everything and somehow things worked out"
I don't deny these situations happen in real life.

But as a person who in fact is alone and doesn't have the money to pay assistants I can tell one thing. I don't like these whole "omg look at what I'm doing, I'm working so hard, people doesn't recognize my efforts, oh I'm taking a big risk" like no shit, Sherlock but well, if you want to do something and for that you're taking this approach then that's on you I guess..

I could simply say the truth of my work "I work full time on two different projects, doing commissions and fanart to be relevant non-stop, oh I feel so tired all the damn time and no one appreciates my efforts nor engages with me!" if I wanted people to give a crap about me.
I don't like people who looks to be pitied, neither I like those that just want to delude themselves in moral superiority by feeling they are supportive. So I simply don't talk about it, and if I do I always I'm honest about all the slacking I did within the day.

But another thing I've noticed is that... there is people who overshare stuff, which is not necessarily bad and there is people who overfixates in something that for another may feel like such a big struggle or waste of energy, but maybe it is not for them.

Like don't get me wrong, maybe it's true or maybe they are lying. One thing can't deny the other... like, I can say I work more than 8 hours a day but to be honest, people will only be able to verify half of it since I stream it. but what I do from lunch to dinner could change radically and that doesn't mean every single day for 2 years I've been doing the same thing.

[TheLemmaLlama]

The vibes I personally get from this person (from what you've written) isn't that they're presenting themself as a positive example to follow, but venting about what it takes if you're alone and want to get work done at a 'decently' quick pace. In my experience at least, I've seen more people posting about how they worked themselves to the bone and suffered wrist injuries as a result, which actually makes me super paranoid about drawing too much and hurting my wrist XD

But yeah, I also just take it slow; I've accepted that as one human being I will have limited artistic output over my life and to maximize that output over the long run, it actually makes more sense to take it slow so that you still have the ability to draw in the future rather than to make a huge amount of progress in the short term at the risk of destroying your potential for future productivity ^^;

[thepenmonster]

This just reminds me of how effective the ruling class' propaganda of "Work hard and your dreams will come true" has been.

It has led us as a society to have shitty reward-for-effort sense. Which is why you see people do dumb things all the time. From breaking into cars for a pair of plastic sunglasses they could have shoplifted much easier, to sacrificing your physical health, mental health, relationships, and ability to eat just to produce art that is going to be forgotten by everyone within a decade because that's the nature of the beast.

Like winning the lottery, just enough people do succeed to inspire other rubes. But for every South Park or Lil Nas X there are hundreds of thousands of people just as good, if not better, bleeding themselves to death to feed an insatiable vampire.

Listen to Singh

[DokiDokiTsuna]

The vibes I personally get from this person (from what you've written) isn't that they're presenting themself as a positive example to follow, but venting about what it takes if you're alone and want to get work done at a 'decently' quick pace.

See, I'd like to see it that way, but they have yet to say anything negative about the insane schedule they're holding themselves to. Not even a mention of how tired they are (which is very normal for artists to say). It really feels like the long hours are simply a representation of their 'work ethic', a tagline to impress people with, not a mark of desperation...

I've seen more people posting about how they worked themselves to the bone and suffered wrist injuries as a result, which actually makes me super paranoid about drawing too much and hurting my wrist XD

I'm very grateful to the artists who post things like that. u_u It's important to know that hard work and "suffering for your craft" doesn't always end harmlessly.
And unless they're told about how badly you can injure yourself, many young artists probably wouldn't find out until it's too late...I know I had some insane habits when I first started webcomic art that only youth made possible, and I'm very lucky that I broke them before I got old enough to learn the hard way. ^^;

[TroyVSTheWorld]

but I chalk this uncertainty up to so many indie projects having the same bland character designs and 'tanktop-punk' techno-fantasy aesthetics

[powerplantanimations]

Oh...oh no... I think I know who you're talking about. I saw their tweets floating online and I was thinking the exact same thing. All I can think was "Man... I hope this movie was worth it".

I can't stress the importance of networking and building connections though. I also can't stress enough for writers or artists to branch out into other genres to meet new people (YouTube videos, animations, etc.).

Better yet, GET CREATIVE. After That Stick Figure Isekai got attention, I started to simplify visual artstyles for my other projects so they can be easy to draw and all that. It's all about compromising.

This guy's movie may look slick and all that, but I can't help but think people will appreciate it more if he came up with a unique rather than borrowing from what's being used in the industry.

[M.ComicFan]

It hurts to read about something like this. Like, I know I'm not one to talk about this since I don't even have a finished project yet, but even I know this is insanity.

I'm not against hard work when it comes to pursuing creative endeavors. You could have an excellent idea for something that you think will resonate with people, but if you don't have the drive or commitment to work on it, you'll never see the light of day, and that's just a fact. That being said, there's a difference between hard work and commitment, and unnecessary and obsessive torture and utter foolishness. This seems to be the latter.

I'll give the guy credit for not taking advantage of other artists, especially since there are plenty of people who would be willing to do that. Artists as it is don't always get paid enough for their work even when they undeniably deserve it. I have put off the idea of working with people since I doubt I'd be able to pay them. However, there's a reason why animation projects are usually worked on by more than one person.

There are so many facets that go into creating something like an animated film, that you need other people to help you with things you may not be good at. There's something in a project that you just can't do, and in that instance, then you call someone for help. If you really can't afford to have some help, then maybe try to arrange some sort of compromise or payment plan or something. It's not a perfect solution, but it's certainly better than this guy's logic of "work 'til I'm broke".

If there's anything I've learned in the past 3 years, it's that there are mostly 3 types of creators out there. Those who pour their lives, sanity, and health into a project, sometimes with no guarantee of success or profit. Then some don't work nearly as hard but try working on an extensive project, only to back-peddle because they bit off more than they can chew or are just extremely self-conscious of their abilities and start over, only to repeat (which is the type I am, sadly). Lastly, there are the people who find some kind of a middle ground, although what that is is different from creator to creator, so I couldn't tell you. But I am trying to figure it out.

I think this concept of overworking yourself to the point of lack of sleep and poor health has become outdated and unhealthy, yet so many people are forced to deal with it. To hear that someone is putting themselves through this of their own volition, and not because they're being forced to is repulsive. There are ways of having a middle ground, yet so many people are convinced that this is the norm, that now they think it's OK to do it to themselves. To that, I say no. Find a middle ground or work on a different project, but don't sacrifice your money, health, or life over this. It's simply not worth it.