Jun 2017
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Jun 2017
Jun 2017
DMBrigman
Jun '17

I get it, some comics can be hard to read on mobile, and that is where I read most of my comics as well. I can say I don't care either way whether they are mobile optimized or in page layout. Things that concern me the most are legibility. I hate having to keep zooming in and out to read text and I reaaaaaally have to be invested in something to keep with it!

For my own comic, I have it set up to be printed, but...I also try not to have vertical panels often, and the letters are a bit larger to help with readability.

There is no denying that larger and larger segments of users are accessing the web via phones and tablets. It is important from a creator standpoint to think about the primary medium, and primary audience when creating content. So that means planning ahead and setting up print ready pages or making panels in ways that are optimized for mobile.

punkarsenic
Jun '17

ehhhhhhhhmmmmmmmnnnnnnggg i dunno. honestly i dont think print will die. aside from the classique nerd who loves to collect their titles, theres something personally very satisfying about Having the comic. its similar to CDs, which still get shifted almost two decades since the MP3. also, publishing houses have the power to print work, and as comics mature as an art form and begin to be taken more seriously, we'll be less and less limited in publisher choices imo.

similarly, i dont think desktop reading will die. i read all my comics (print and web-) on desktop, and people arent gonna grow out of laptops. laptops are here to stay.

also i feel like theres not as much to do in mobile friendly format? i know you can get very experimental, if youve got the head for it, but i see my work here as practice for uni, and my future career, that could well be very print focused. regardless, uni will be looking at the tried and tested methods of comic artists of the print world. its not in my interest to make my comics scroll-to-reveal style, and its not in my interest either; its boring to me.

that all said, obviously it is a good idea to make your comic palatable on mobile. like you said, it can alienate a large chunk of your audience. but i think for a lot of people, making their comic in the style theyre enthusiastic about, which includes the paneling choices, is a priority over popularity. i think it would be nice if people did more with the scrolling, because its there and can be pretty useful, but if someone wants to print then what can they do?

SleepingPoppy
Jun '17

I just tilt my phone sideways. That pretty much solves it for me. :wink:

Alamino
Jun '17

I actually have been thinking about this a lot.
Personally I would like to move to a mobile format (I don't think I'll ever actually print my comic) but... I know a lot of the readers are use to how it is now. :confounded: At the moment I just put the Mobile Format on Webtoons and leave it as it is here. Besides, I find Webtoons is more Mobile and Tapas is more desktop >_> Least thats how it is among people I have asked.
This could also have a lot to do with the publication of 1 page per week rather than an 'episode' which is what most mobile comics are in.
Any future comics I do I certainly plan to leave the regular book format for more of a scrolling one. But not sure how I'd want to format it (Future problems lol not important now)

eagle1
Jun '17

Since every comic that NO-Earth produces is destined for print (our first three are out already), mobile is such a small piece of our market that it would be counterproductive to spend the time and money needed to create a version just for mobile.

Eagle
(and it's confusing enough having to keep up with all of the mirror site formats)

GesuGesu
Jun '17

it's truly up to the creators to decide what they want to do. I have originally started with print format because.. well.. it was a school project intended to be printed out and shared to class. After that, I moved to scroll formats, because I personally enjoy reading one smooth scroll. I write my newer webtoons thinking that the screen is a window that lets you see a bit at a time, rather than as a simple "display" for a page.

I happened to come by Scott McCloud's thoughts on using the web as a platform for new comics
http://scottmccloud.com/1-webcomics/icst/icst-4/icst-4.html6

AmysGames
Jun '17

Honestly, the main reason Aiiro No Kunoichi isn't in mobile format is because smart phones weren't really a thing when I started it, heh. #oldfogeylife

I considered adapting it for mobile format when I started posting it here, but it has some creative panel layouts that would be completely lost in such a format, so I opted to just leave it as-is.

UzukiCheverie
Jun '17

because mobile format is dumb and boring and overused

nah haha I kid (not really about the overused part tho. a lot of people use it and because a lot of people use it for the sake of using it, a lot of people don't know how to use it right)

I have the same reasons as everyone else as to why I do my comics in print format - because I want to print my work. For my other comics like Sociowrath and Uzuki, yeah, they're built vertically, because they're a lot easier to stack vertically and I don't really plan on printing them (and if I do, they're made in a way that would be easy to format into a book). Time Gate: Reaper though needs its horizontal planes, its panel variety, its double page spreads, and its formatting for print.

It would be foolish to believe laptops and such are gonna disappear anytime soon though, at least within our lifetime. You wanna write a novel on a Samsung Galaxy S5?

Rhombik
Jun '17

I think this depends on the comic. If you have a heavily detailed style or lots of dialogue, I would say your readers shouldn't be reading you on a tiny screen.

Actually maybe you guys can settle an argument. My comic is two panels wide and has an incredibly simplistic style and colour scheme with minimal dialogue. It's ultimately supposed to be for English language learners both as a study tool and as reading practice. I think it's OK as it is now on a smartphone screen but my room mate keeps telling me to make it one panel wide.

He double checks my strips on his mobile. He should wear glasses but doesn't.

What do you guys reckon? Gombik Comics7

StrangeVision
Jun '17

Desktop reading a thing of the past? Not in my household, buster!
Those little screens are not ideal...no sir.
I get irked when I see people out in public with their faces glued to their phones, especially when it's a group of friends together. It's a silly sight, real kodak moments. The notion of catering to that habit makes my blood boil a little bit. I refuse. Scrolling format doesn't do it for me anyway. If this limits my audience then so be it.
Old school, baby. I was bummed when theaters went to digital projectors.
Starting to feel old sucks.

DMBrigman
Jun '17

I think it is important to note that just recently mobile internet usage surpassed desktop usage, and the trend will only continue. This can be seen from a web developer standpoint in that there is a focus on responsive design, progressive apps, and web apps.

From a user standpoint, laptops aren't going anywhere because it is difficult to do work without a keyboard! But it does seem as though laptops are being relegated more and more to work related functions and less leisure time functions. Even from a commerce perspective, now that web stores are making their sites more mobile compatible users are doing most of their shopping through their mobile.

I think about my own habits, and I only trot out my laptop when I can't accomplish something on my phone or tablet. I even notice this among my parents who only have an iPad and iPhone, and don't even own a laptop. So, whether you like the trend or not the fact is that it is only going to continue to grow.

I think it always important to think about how the end user is consuming your content, and realize with attention spans what they are these days if things are inconvenient to view an audience will go elsewhere. Just something to consider as one tries to balance building a web audience with printing a final product.

69Michi
Jun '17

Yes I completely agree with you on this. Lately people have been gearing their website more toward a mobile user friendly because mobile usage is in fact becoming bigger and bigger by days. A lot of people I know don't even have a laptop/desktop and do everything they need on their little cellphone. (Some do have laptop, but don't bother to use it because cellphone is just that more convenient) On web design standpoint, we are required to do mobile adaptive and some of our customers don't even care much about the desktop side of thing and focus more on mobile adaptive along with all sort of social media because those are the big thing nowadays.

In the end, it's just a creator's preference to which side of the spectrum they want to gear more toward. Comic isn't as easily mobile adaptive as a website with flexible coding, so sometimes it's a choice of either or, can't be both.

Me personally I find vertical scrolling format has been great for me, and even those readers that seem to only enjoy manga page seem to be okay with mine. (Granted I don't overuse the white space and I still work on my comic page - by - page, each page just has less panel than an average manga page) I think with this method, if I want to print my comic in the future, it shouldn't be too much of a problem (Maybe it will be a tad more page than the average comic, but hey)

silencelibrarian
Jun '17
DMBrigman

First of, I'd like to thank everyone who chime in on this topic,
I definitely more enlightened after reading all the different opinion

@DMBrigman Your responses definitely put together my preference for the mobile format much better than I do here. When I posted this thread, I'm not trying to force creators to do it all in mobile, it really is up to the creator what format they wanna make it, but I sincerely believe that in the next few years, the shift to mobile will become more and more obvious that it is not something you can ignore like it is right now.

@Kimoisempai that Scott McCloud's comic is excellent!!

@GombikComics I would say one panel per line is better, I'm all for mobile
my phone is bigger than the regular galaxy/iphone and your comic still looks small to me, I mean it was still fine and readable but I think it will be better as one panel per page.
I agree with your opinion on if it's a highly detailed comic with dialog, reading it on tiny phone probably not ideal.

For those of you who advocate for book format in desktop/laptop viewing, I have a question:
Were you already webcomic readers from way back before smartphone era?
I feel like reading from the responses here, you would have to be comfortable reading it in a laptop because it was something you're already used to.

I mean I get it, a well made book format have a certain beauty to it,
I still read manga in print and digital format, although for the latter, I only read it on a tablet, not a phone, from official licensed publisher app like viz, crunchyroll, or comixology,
I find it highly uncomfortable if I have to go to a webpage to read something one these mobile devices, since most of those webcomic sites arent mobile friendly at all.

Reading is one of my entertainments, and the last thing I wanna do when I want to be entertained is sitting on a chair with a laptop on the desk, it just feels like I'm working, doesn't feel like leisure activity.

With the smartphone, I can be laying around on the sofa/bed, waiting for a friend inside a car, sitting in the waiting room of a doctor/vet, etc etc,
basically the consumption of that entertainment is much more flexible.
So if I wanna check out something new on webtoon/tapas, these are the times I browsed around looking for new things.

My tablet, however, is not something I carry everywhere, so I reserved the tablet to read something I know for sure is worthwhile, like really good manga that I've been following or kindle books,
because these products that I bought are usually have met my standard that worth my time sitting down and read, instead of on the fly entertainment.

Self published webcomics have extreme variation in quality, very few out there I personally invested in, so I'm less likely to allocate specific time to sample new ones, I just do it on my phone in different time of day to fill time.
I guess I should install tapas app on my tablet if I care enough to sampler all the book format webcomic,

Smartphone is a more widely used, and while book format still great for a tablet, it is usually too cramped and small for a phone.
If you have to sample how many of the internet comic reader population own mobile phone vs tablet, I think the numbers would be greatly tilted toward phone.

The laptop just can't compete with the comfort and convenient of phone and tablet.

I agree, it is all up to the creator whatever format you wanna make it,
but seeing all the complaints out there about visibility etc etc, and the amount of work involved making a webcomic, I think it is fair to say that deep down all creators want their work to be found and read, and being popular is some kind of acknowledgements that your work is well received.
Otherwise, why even bother to put it on the internet at all?

What I'm trying to say is, that more and more internet users are going mobile and while it may not seem like it today, this number will implode considerably in the next few years that mobile format is not something a creator should ignore.
The number of webtoons readers vs tapastic or hiveworks is a proof of how many people are reading on mobile,
they may not chimed in on this forum because this forum is not on the app, and it seems like only creators bother going out of their way to take out their laptop and type in here, so it seems like the responses here are tilted toward pro book format more than mobile.

However, not trying to contradict my previous points about mobile format,
while mobile does expose your work towards more internet users which now growing up with smartphone,
these users consume things differently than those who going out of your way to sit down and read something in book format.
They kind of consume it like disposable fast food most of the times. So your chance of getting these kids opening their wallet and fund your print version through kickstarter etc is probably quite slim.
It's a different kind of reading habit.
I included myself in these crowd, but once in a while I found a free webcomic from my phone that I thought was great and I'm willing to open my wallet for them, and I would never have found them if it weren't from webtoon/tapas on my phone.

Hodge
Jun '17

Thank you for this :slight_smile: I understand you're trying to look at this industry practically, and honestly, I agree with you in many ways. I read manga and webtoons on my phone mostly. Sure I have a physical manga collection (which I love), but I've also spent money on webtoon sites like Lezhin or supported people on patreon. I want to make comics and help the industry grow, and if it means printing my comic is a lower priority then so be it.

revisionstudios
Jun '17
silencelibrarian

I appreciate you posting a more comprehensive reply about your feelings on the subject!

Personally, while I do use my smartphone like you (lounge on the couch and read, check social media, etc.), by and large I am sitting at my desktop because it's where I work as an artist. I prefer using the internet on my desktop overall because it's not as clunky feeling to me. I feel like mobile versions of websites are often really squished and cluttered and kind of a pain to navigate.

And when it comes to Tapas, the mobile app just doesn't have all the same functionality. They closed the gap a little recently, but the app still doesn't have notifications, wall posts, or the forums... so by default I just prefer using the desktop version if I'm interacting with the community or finding new things to read. I mostly just use the app when I'm out and a comic I'm subbed to updates.

But, I also am old enough to be one of those people who remembers webcomics before there were platforms like Tapas or Webtoons. So that could be part of my preferences as a reader. To be fair though, I also didn't read many webcomics back then because of how tedious it was having to click "Next" for every page and had to remember to check the sites for new updates. Finding Tapas changed that for me and made it easier to read, even on desktop. I read more webcomics now than I ever have.

silencelibrarian
Jun '17
Hodge

I came across Lezhin a week ago, I have not spent much time in it yet because it seems like it is heavily geared toward BL and sexually explicit content? or am I wrong?
What's your thought on Lezhin?

as far as print format, I've seen that webtoon featured artist Jason Brubaker who made Sitrah draw everything in book format and converting it to webtoon afterwards11, so that if you ever get to have to print it one day, you already have it in print format
If you read Sitrah on webtoon on a mobile app, you would see how beautiful it is and it is not a lesser artistic medium than book format.
I can't say the same for most other webtoon/webcomic in mobile format.

I realized it is extra work and creator would rather spend time on making the comics instead, but considering the amount of extra market you can tap into in the future, it might not be a bad idea.

@revisionstudios tapas app seems to notify me when a series get an update, it might be in the setting?

revisionstudios
Jun '17

No no, not notifications of a series updating. I get those. I'm talking creator-end notifications about new subs/likes/comments on my series and when other creators post something on their wall. I hate having to wait until I get home to check all that.

silencelibrarian
Jun '17

oh from the creator POV, that make sense,
that explains why the creators prefer the desktop vs the app

Hodge
Jun '17
silencelibrarian

Ahh I love Jason Brubaker~ And Lezhin didn't used to push BL but it started doing really well in the past year so they've been marketing it more, think Killing Stalking. Lezhin does have more sexually explicit content (though it does have other genres like action, comedy, etc), that's one of its main differentiating features with LINE which is their main competition overseas. They target older readers. Also, it only allows a certain amount of free chapters until you have to pay, but this also means the quality is kept rather high. Very few Lezhin comics have dissapointed me.

They did a few contests and they do take in submissions from creators (4 episodes I think) but they have to me mobile friendly and usually around 70 panels long. So rather high standards and it would take a creator a significant amount of time to create the submission. It's more exclusive than the free-for-all that is the Discover section on LINE, but the art and story have to be good. Personally, I don't mind the paywall (their readership isn't as young as LINE probably and so more willing to pay), though I think english readers will take time to get used to it since we're spoiled :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye: I've also heard that Lezhin artists are paid or treated better and so many Korean artists have moved there.

Ahhh sorry for rambling, but Lezhin doesn't get much love in this forum but I like it and wished people pursued publishing there more.