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DokiDokiTsuna
May '21
1

So I just saw a comment that basically went 'isn't it ironic how some of the most wholesome shows (MLP, SU, etc.) have the most vicious, toxic fanbases?'

And it reminded me of a Tumblr post I saw long ago that made a surprising amount of sense about those kinds of observations. I'm gonna try to paraphrase it:

-Shows aimed at children are more generally encouraged to have a black & white view of morality, or at least a very limited one, where 'good' characters generally have very few vices, and 'bad' characters don't actually have to do many bad things in order to earn the label. You don't like to share your cupcakes? Congrats, you're a supervillain.

-Upon repeated exposure to and immersion in this kind of limited morality, the viewer begins to adopt it. A 'good' person is a perfect angel; the only people worth viewing sympathetically are people who literally do no wrong. Conversely, someone who does one (1) bad thing, no matter what it is or who is affected by it, deserves to be called evil.

-Obviously, you'd have a lot of difficulty applying this thought process directly to real life...unless, of course, you change the definitions of 'good' and 'bad' to suit your needs. Enter stage three: the viewer redefines good and bad according to their own moral code, and anyone who breaks it in just one (1) way and refuses to apologize becomes their enemy...and they become free to treat them like garbage.

The original Tumblr poster was actually referring to the adult fans of KID-kids' shows, like things for preschoolers, or kids who are at most 10 years old. And in that demographic, the effects are much more pronounced...I can speak to it from personal experience, even. One of the most hateful, judgmental people I know was a fan of preschool-age programs well into her teens, and still is for all I know (believe it or not, we don't talk much anymore).

But I think you can still see this kind of behavior coming from rabid fans of more mature kids' programs, especially those that deal with complex issues that are allegorized or simplified so that they can be available to younger audiences...sometimes to their detriment, unfortunately.

To use Steven Universe as an example: recently, I saw another Tumblr post that went 'SU isn't fascist apologia; you're reading way too much into a show that's just about family relationships and accepting people for who they are.'
And I can appreciate that viewpoint...but I think it's pretty naive; almost insultingly so. If the writers of the show didn't want us to focus on all the harm the Diamond Empire did to the universe, they shouldn't have written 80% of the show about reckoning with the consequences of their conquests, and they shouldn't have made the 'family relationships' concern literal dictators.

You could easily have had Pink Diamond run away from some random alien family that didn't rule the galaxy, and many of the moralistic story elements (which are apparently the only important ones...) could have been the same.
Just moving the Diamonds down from the absolute ruling class to a lower one in the same empire (that was a little less responsible for every bad thing that happened) could probably keep almost ALL of the story the same, and with a lot less of the 'genocidal tyrants have feelings too' subtext. And the fact that the writers didn't do that, or at least decided it wasn't necessary, is a conscious choice that deserves to be criticized.

ANYWAY, the point is, this kind of abstraction can often turn reasonable life lessons into toxic ones, because they try to deliver the same messages about human nature and kindness in different contexts without taking into account the fact that...the context is different. =/

The thing about shows that are geared towards adults, however, is that they are no longer required to make things abstract. If they want to make a show about a neglectful/abusive family driving their youngest member to run away from home to reinvent themselves, they can just...do that. If they want to do this amid a backdrop of the horrors of brutal war and colonization, they can do that, too...and it's much harder for viewers to wave it away as 'unimportant' when people are actually dying and having their lives destroyed in ways that aren't 'child-friendly'.

And most importantly, some of the best-written ones excel in portraying 'grayness'...as in, the concept of neutral events; things that just happen and don't turn into episode-long conflicts, season-long subplots, or overarching moral messages. Sometimes a driver flips you off on the road, and you scoff and get on with your day. Or a friend breaks an engagement with you, or you apply for a new job and don't get it, or a cashier says something nice to you, and you think "that was really nice", and then never see them again.

Sometimes stuff just happens...and then you let it go. Sometimes events aren't 'easter eggs' or clues to some big mystery. Sometimes there are no heroes or villains...just people, who are both good and bad and coexist anyway.

This is getting really long; I think I should stop. ^^; But just as a disclaimer: I don't have anything against kids' shows; I love them and my lifelong dream is to be a part of one someday. But at the end of the day they are constructs, and at this moment in time they are constructs centered around teaching young people right from wrong in very formulaic ways...which isn't something you can expect from real life. You can definitely be a fan of them without engrossing yourself in them to the point where those formulas dictate how you should treat real people.

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    May '21

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bakasama25
May '21

I won't name names but some kids shows feel like at times they're aimed at young adults while not appealing to kids that much.

aqua03Party Planner
May '21

We honestly need a channel or block of animation that's explicitly aimed at teens and young adults. Kind of a middle ground between "Fun for the whole family" Saturday morning stuff and "Late Night all Kids out of the pool, It's time for Adult Swim" adult animation if that makes sense instead of this awkward "We wanted to make a show for young adults but we had to make it a kids' show instead and thus had to cut a lot of corners as a result" shows you tend to see a lot of nowadays.

rajillustration
May '21

I don't know if it's necessarily just a kid's show problem. I see this with older media a lot. Things that have no morality even, like Game of Thrones. I think it comes down to: There's a lot of fandom communities that see critique and analysis as a personal attack. Like if someone who has a polarized view of the world (and there's tons of adults who are like this) wants to make a polarizing opinion--honestly they should just be left alone. Normally...they would just be ignored for their bogus opinions.

But it's the internet, and so polarizing and negative opinions get waaaay more engagement than more mature analysis and reviews. We end up seeing only the bad parts of a fandom floating to the top of the algorithm, and it just...kills fandoms. It's real sad actually, because it only takes a few people sending death threats to just kill the reputation of a fandom--and it happens to everything that gets popular enough. Whether it's kids stuff or not.

As for if exposure to only kids stuff could turn you into a polarized troll...I don't think so. I think that's just a personality type. Kind of like how heavy metal won't make you violent even though it might reference violence a lot.

Ordinaryaverageguy
May '21

Wow, you just summarized a lot of the political-social landscape of today. Anyone (including ancient historical figures) who ever screwed up (by today's standards) is a supervillain and irredeemable and everything they ever said, wrote, did or touched is therefore trash.

thetalentedmrwulf
May '21
rajillustration

I mean, toxic fandoms have existed since the beginning. People broke into Tolkien's home. Petitions and "Keep Holmes Alive" clubs were formed to try and unite the fandom to force Doyle to retcon Holmes' death. Ancient Roman chariot teams/fans literally rioted and murdered people. One of the things that has changed is the capacity of fandoms to communicate via loudspeaker and send harmful messages with greater speed and ease than ever before.

It's very easy for someone to recommend their target self-harm when they're a thousand miles away shouting behind a username as opposed to writing an angry letter with your address on it to someone else. This is even truer when you're not just harassing one person but a hundred. Culture hasn't really figured out how to address this behavior - most groups are still trying to figure out how to leverage it to sell more or get more supporters. The same people griping about "Cancel Culture" now, are, in many cases, the same people that thought violent video games were evil and D&D was satanic.

More than anything, it's a nasty to reminder about what happens when people allow a single piece of media or a team (sports, political, or otherwise) to become their entire identity.

Kaydreamer
May '21

I don't think it's only kid shows which do this - plenty of adult media can be very black-and-white as well, especially these days. But some of the black-and-white thinking we've seemed to instil in the zoomer and millennial generations has certainly been reinforced by the narrow morality of the media we feed them.

I'm a mid-tier millennial. I grew up with Disney, but I also enjoyed older children's shows and movies which were a lot darker, and far more grey. Ever heard of The Animals Of Farthing Wood? It's an English animated children's series about a group of woodland creatures whose forest is destroyed to make way for a housing estate. They have to band together, predators and prey alike, in order to find a new forest.

The attrition rate for this merry band of cute, fuzzy creatures is Game of Thrones-level. It is an absolutely heart-wrenching series. No creature is safe. But the predators are never made out to be absolute monsters for what they do. Sometimes, they're forgiven, and they try hard to overcome their natures, even if they don't always succeed.

That kind of TV show is really important for children to watch. It was so morally grey. The lessons it imparted were very real. Sometimes, things just don't work out the way you'd like. Sometimes, tragedy happens, and you have to keep moving forward for the sake of yourself, and for those around you. Leaders make mistakes, and that does not make them monsters. Arrogance can be fatal. Youngsters, heed your elders. Elders, listen to your youngsters, and learn to speak to them in ways they understand.

Full Metal Alchemist is another great example. A number of the heroic characters are outright war criminals from the Ishvalan war. They're haunted by what they did, and intend to atone for those crimes after they've finished toppling the government which forced them to do it in the first place. We need more stories like that; stories which make plain that a person cad do evil things, but not be evil, and can regret, and atone, and still be funny, and likeable. And ultimately, they can be forgiven.

The issue of black and white morality had extended out into YA fiction as well, which is even more distressing; as it's at that age where kids/teens should be beginning to notice and grapple with grey morality in a way smaller children struggle with. I'm really hating that trend, and I intend to push against it in my own work.

As an adult who still adores a lot of children's and YA media, and intends to have a hand in making more, I do think there's a lot of value in watching a broad range of media, including that which is targeted at adults. The well-written stuff does tend to run greyer with its morality, and by observing how the writers handle that, you can learn a lot about how to weave it carefully into children's and YA media.

I care a lot about restorative justice, as opposed to punitive justice. Black and white moral thinking makes the former next to impossible, and the latter very appealing. If the stories we consume can give audiences a lens through which they may begin to notice shades of grey, it's important that they do so, and that they do so early.